How much salary does a doctor make

[madoka]

I read this article about doctors' incomes. I saw that among the highest paid doctors, orthopedists, only 50% would choose their job if given a do-over. What is so particularly unattractive about that specialty that would cause such a reaction?

http://www.businessinsider.com/how-much-salary-does-a-doctor-make-2015-4

In fact, doctors with some of the lowest earnings were the most likely to say they would choose medicine as a career if they had to do it all over again. About 70% of physicians in internal medicine and family medicine would choose medicine all over again, compared with just 50% of high-earning orthopedists.

 

[purbeast0]

my dad was a urologist and seeing how much he worked was the sole reason i would have never considered becoming a doctor.

 

[Ns1]

needs corresponding chart for student debt + insurance costs + hours worked.

 

[Homerboy]

I would think that when you get into things like Pediatrics and Family medicine, it's a much different mindset than getting into plastic surgery. I'd ecpect that those types of doctors truly are in it to help people versus making lots of money

 

[Printer Bandit]

when doctors get sick, do they go to a another doctor or just check it out themselves?

 

[SearchMaster]

My MIL was an anesthesiologist and made quite a bit more than what's on the chart, 30+ years ago. The chemicals nearly killed her though, and she absolutely would NOT into medicine if she could do it all again. She's the type that would have been a great housecall doctor in the 60s and 70s but hates the institutionalized medicine that has taken over.

 

[xeemzor]

On average doctors on't get paid nearly the $/hr that you think they do. Only consider becoming one if you really enjoy helping people and working with medicine.

 

[MiniDoom]

On average doctors on't get paid nearly the $/hr that you think they do. Only consider becoming one if you really enjoy helping people and working with medicine.

I wish the same could be said about politicians, but they've seemed to find ways to make millions while holding office.

 

[xeemzor]

I wish the same could be said about politicians, but they've seemed to find ways to make millions while holding office.

Insider trading FTW.

 

[Genx87]

I'd guess stress and hours. Pediatrics\family medicine for the most part is a 8-5 job with defined hours, vacation ect. The higher paid specialties carries with it different hours and a lot of stress making life or death decision.

My wife is a BSRN and worked bedside oncology in a hospital for 3 years. She had to leave because it was so draining dealing with death and suffering every day.

 

[z1ggy]

Just goes to show you, money != happiness in all cases. I'm betting many lawyers would feel the same.

 

[vi edit]

My wife's coworker is married to a guy who is entering the last year of his orthopedic surgery fellowship. He's' 35. He hasn't stopped going to school since he entered kindergarten. He has almost $500,000 in student loans.

Do the math on that. He hasn't started a retirement account. He's had to move around 3-4 different times to match up to the schools, residencies and programs he wants. And in his "prime years" he's been working 80 hour weeks and missing out on family, friends and life in general.

Is that worth half a million a year to play catchup? Depends on the person I guess.

 

[Gooberlx2]

only 50% would choose their job if given a do-over. What is so particularly unattractive about that specialty that would cause such a reaction?

With orthos specifically, I have to think the rate of treatment failure factors into it. Much of their patient base is going to be people with little chance of ever really feeling better, rather it's about managing their rate of joint decay and pain.

And then yeah, add in all the stuff vi edit mentioned above.

 

[blankslate]

needs corresponding chart for student debt + insurance costs + hours worked.

Probably this... there also needs to be a comparison for such costs by country as well... afaik physicians in the U.S. pay more than many other countries for malpractice insurance.


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[vi edit]

Some of my best friends are either specialists and/or married to specialists. One of them is a pediatric cardiologist, the other is married to a pediatric neurologist.

Both of those specialists are usually in to the hospital or their office by 7:00AM and they are rarely out of there before 8:00PM. In the case of the cardiologist, he might spend 20 hours a day at the hospital if he's on service for his group and has to do a lot of procedures. It's not an easy job in the least bit.

 

[vi edit]

Probably this... there also needs to be a comparison for such costs by country as well... afaik physicians in the U.S. pay more than many other countries for malpractice insurance.


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Mal practice is tough. OB/GYN docs have the highest premiums. Those can be over $150,000 a year. But depending on the arrangement their employer/group will cover it and they aren't paying it outright. Same goes for a lot of other physicians. Depending on the specialty it can be as low as a couple grand a year.

 

[Fritzo]

The more you work in medicine, the more you can bill out and the more you make. The specialists make big money, but they're probably putting in 80 hours a week.

 

[vi edit]

The more you work in medicine, the more you can bill out and the more you make. The specialists make big money, but they're probably putting in 80 hours a week.

Not really true any more. At least in the case of hospital based/owned physicians. Healthcare systems are rapidly buying up specialty practices and converting to flat salary formats. There may be performance based incentives based upon volume and some professional fee reimbursements for diagnostic reading, but those are relatively minor parts of their income.

The entire healthcare reimbursement model is getting flipped on it's head and the old days of getting paid more for doing more is going away. Moving forward you'll get paid for doing better work.

 

[gorcorps]

one

he makes exactly one salary

next...

 

[xeemzor]

The entire healthcare reimbursement model is getting flipped on it's head and the old days of getting paid more for doing more is going away. Moving forward you'll get paid for doing better work.

But how do you measure outcomes when the main driver is the health of the patients before admittance?

 

[Eug]

I read this article about doctors' incomes. I saw that among the highest paid doctors, orthopedists, only 50% would choose their job if given a do-over. What is so particularly unattractive about that specialty that would cause such a reaction?

http://www.businessinsider.com/how-much-salary-does-a-doctor-make-2015-4

In fact, doctors with some of the lowest earnings were the most likely to say they would choose medicine as a career if they had to do it all over again. About 70% of physicians in internal medicine and family medicine would choose medicine all over again, compared with just 50% of high-earning orthopedists.

Seems like the right ballpark.

It should be noted that those who might show billings of say $600000 aren't taking home that much, because those billings need to cover all expenses, which may be 40% of the billings. So, someone billing $600000 might make closer to $360000.

Not really true any more. At least in the case of hospital based/owned physicians. Healthcare systems are rapidly buying up specialty practices and converting to flat salary formats. There may be performance based incentives based upon volume and some professional fee reimbursements for diagnostic reading, but those are relatively minor parts of their income.

The entire healthcare reimbursement model is getting flipped on it's head and the old days of getting paid more for doing more is going away. Moving forward you'll get paid for doing better work.

The flat salary model is still in the minority in North America, except if you're talking about certain specific specialties.

Also, many doctors would LOVE to be paid a salary, but only if they work 8-5, and get overtime in off hours, paid vacation time, guaranteed vacation time, a pension plan, and paid extended health and dental benefits. As part of that they would also want all office expenses including malpractice insurance covered up front by the employer.

When presented like that, all of a sudden salaries for doctors don't always seem as easy to implement. Many organizations would rather a doctor work 60 hours a week and get paid nothing extra for night call, rather than make everyone an hourly employee.

IOW, it's probably easier to salary a medical microbiologist or an emergency physician than it is an obstetrician.

 

[vi edit]

But how do you measure outcomes when the main driver is the health of the patients before admittance?

Bounceback, infections, length of stay, HCAHPS, ect. Basically what CMS says is important.

 

[vi edit]

The flat salary model is still tin he minority in North America, except if you're talking about certain specific specialties.

Over 50% of MD's here are salaried.

 

[Eug]

Over 50% of MD's here are salaried.

Where is that? Cuz in most of the US and Canada, that's not the case.

 

[vi edit]

Where is that? Cuz in most of the US and Canada, that's not the case.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/14/us/salaried-doctors-may-not-lead-to-cheaper-health-care.html
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/26/health/policy/26docs.html

Like I said earlier, over the last 6-10 years, health care systems have been very aggressively buying out physician groups and moving them to employees of the system rather than independent practices.

There are still many system that have incentive laden bonus models, but it's not the primary income.