How much power do I need?

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ChorniyVolk

Senior member
Sep 1, 2009
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That's quite a lot of power there, but if I get a high quality 750w PSU, that should fit that set-up, no?

Anyway, so what about the HX? It goes for a comparable price, is it worth the extra $20-$30 to get it over the TPN?
 

ChorniyVolk

Senior member
Sep 1, 2009
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Mainly I'd just like to get my head around what the TPN does better than the TX, and what the HX does better than the TPN; all I've got to go on is how much power it pushes out, extras like if it's modular, and what connections it has, but this other stuff you guys are talking about is going over my head. I mean, there's that 750w PSU that is fully modular and has some 80 Gold certification or something, and it goes for $200! Clearly I'm missing something.
 

HOOfan 1

Platinum Member
Sep 2, 2007
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Mainly I'd just like to get my head around what the TPN does better than the TX, and what the HX does better than the TPN; all I've got to go on is how much power it pushes out, extras like if it's modular, and what connections it has, but this other stuff you guys are talking about is going over my head. I mean, there's that 750w PSU that is fully modular and has some 80 Gold certification or something, and it goes for $200! Clearly I'm missing something.

Well just a week ago the Truepower New was selling for the same price as the TX750. That made it a much better deal.

If you are going to up your price range to the HX750 level, then the Seasonic S12D and M12D 750W come into the picture as well. Those are equal to the Corsair HX750 and yes the HX750, Seasonic S12D and M12D are better than the Truepower New.

What is better about the Truepower New than the TX750?
It is about 2% more efficient
Ripple suppression is a good deal better. (the biggest reason it is better)
It has better voltage regulation on the minor rails, while the TX750 has slightly better on the 12V rail.

What is better about the HX750 and S12D/M12D 750?
A little more efficient 1% to 2%
Better still ripple suppression, although not as dramatic a difference as between the TPN and TX750.
Better voltage regulation on both.

Whether the HX750 or M12D/S12D are worth that much extra, is up to you. I certainly think without a doubt the Truepower New is a better choice than the TX750 though. Certainly at the same price point and even when the TPN is $10-$20 more.


Edit: Since you said stuff was going over your head, I figure I should explain. OF course the stickies from Jonny Guru are back at the top and explain in more detail

Efficiency That is a pretty easy one.
A Power supply takes AC power from your wall socket and converts it into DC power to power your computer components. The problem is, that it can't do that at 100% efficiency, there is going to be a loss in there, mostly lost as heat. How much AC power it takes to produce the DC power that your PC needs is the efficiency. DC output/AC input is how efficiency is determined. Efficiency of a PSU also depends on how much power it is being asked to feed the components, in relation to its total rating. Most PSUs are less efficient at lower power output, most efficient at ~50% of power output and again less efficient at close to its maximum power output. It is generally a bell curve.

So if you are powering similar systems with the TPN and the TX 750. It the systems demand roughly half of the 750W rating of the units or 375W. The TPN is about 86% efficient and the TX750 is about 84% efficient. That means to produce 375W DC, the TPN is drawing 436W AC from the wall and the TX750 is drawing 446W AC from the wall. The TX750 is drawing 10W more than the TPN. That extra 10W is mostly lost as heat..so the PSU heats up more and the fan has to spin faster and be louder to extract that heat.

Voltage regulation
Of course the three main outputs from the PSU are 3.3V, 5V and 12V. ATX specification states that these outputs should be within 5% deviation of the nominal at all time.
3.13-3.46
4.75-5.25
11.4-12.6
As the PSU experiences different loads, the voltage is going to fluctuate some. Voltage regulation not only means keeping the outputs in the above range, but it also means how stable the PSU can keep the outputs. The less change from one load level to another, the better.

Ripple Suppression
Remember that a PSU is taking AC power and converting it to DC power. AC power is an alternating current, meaning that the voltage swings from positive to negative at a certain frequency. In the US it is 60Hz or the voltage swings from 0V to peak voltage back down through 0V to lowest negative voltage and back up to 0V again 60 times in a second.
Inside the PSU, that 60Hz oscillation is first stopped and turned into DC and then it is turned back into AC with a frequency MUCH higher than 60Hz. That frequency is called the switching frequency. It is done like this because in order to transform the high voltage AC power down to the 12V, 3.3V, 5V and other voltage outputs needed by your computer, the frequency needs to be very high in order to allow the transformer to be smaller and more efficient.

However, the PSU then needs to take that very high frequency AC and turn it back into DC. Again, that is not a 100% process, and any remnant of high frequency oscillation left in the output is called ripple. The lower the ripple the better. Specification calls for nor more than 120mV amplitude on the 12V and no more than 50mV amplitude on the 3.3V and 5V.
 
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ChorniyVolk

Senior member
Sep 1, 2009
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Interesting.

So I get that voltage regulation is basically like you keeping your car in your own lane between the two lines, where the road can change and curve and all that (the parts asking for different amounts of power) and the voltage regulation is how well you can keep your car in your own lane within the lines (keep the voltage between those numbers). Otherwise, you'll have problems with parts getting too much electricity, or getting too little, and getting damaged/losing performance due to lack of power, etc., is that about right?

But what does ripple affect performance wise?

And I'm starting to think that the TPN is what I should go for, if the difference between it and the next step up isn't all that dramatic, I don't see why I should pay 30%-50% more.
 

jvroig

Platinum Member
Nov 4, 2009
2,394
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Also got a question, must be pretty basic.

If you build a rig and get a bigger PSU than you need then so that you can do SLI/Crossfire in the future or upgrade any of your specs without having to switch PSUs as often, how long can you actually expect a decent qualty Antec / Corsair PSU to last? Let's say the computer in question is used everyday for 8 hours on the average. Do decent PSUs last 5 years? Or usually even longer? Thanks.
 

HOOfan 1

Platinum Member
Sep 2, 2007
2,337
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Also got a question, must be pretty basic.

If you build a rig and get a bigger PSU than you need then so that you can do SLI/Crossfire in the future or upgrade any of your specs without having to switch PSUs as often, how long can you actually expect a decent qualty Antec / Corsair PSU to last? Let's say the computer in question is used everyday for 8 hours on the average. Do decent PSUs last 5 years? Or usually even longer? Thanks.

The components usually don't actually run off the input voltage from the PSU, they have their own circuitry that converts it to lower voltages. Having the hire voltage from the PSU, just allows more power to be given to the components with a lower current over the longer wires from the PSU. The componenets are usually still tolerant of a voltage outside of the specification, but if it is too far out, the components simply won't work and you won't even be able to boot up. Otherwise, having very poor voltage regulation can be very hard on the circutry of the components and reduce their life span. The components also have their own filters to filter out some ripple, butthey can only filter so much. Again high ripple can damage and shorten the life of your components.


Most decent PSUs have a Mean Time Before Failure of 100,000 hours, rated at 25C (room temperature), so I am not sure what that would amount to at a higher operating temperature like 40C. But a decent PSu should easily last 5 years and even longer. My job has an IBM workstation that is on 24 hours a day every day and it has a Pentium 3 which they haven't even made for at least 8 years, so that PSU has been plugging along in a dust filled cramped, hot cabinet for at least 70,0000 hours.
 

jvroig

Platinum Member
Nov 4, 2009
2,394
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Ah, so on the average, we can say that an investment in a great PSU should easily last 5 years.

So I guess, when taking into account PC upgrades, we can write off the PSU as something that lasts 4 upgrades (say you do so every 2 years) or ~8 years? Is this reasonable?

The only other consideration would be new parts that need a lot more power than can be supplied (say something new in Crossfire/SLI), so is getting a PSU bigger than your current need (maybe you only need 400W PSU now, but decide to get a 750W) planning to make it last upwards of 5 years a reasonable idea?
 

HOOfan 1

Platinum Member
Sep 2, 2007
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Well there are other things to consider, like changes in specifications. Older Pentium 3 era PSUs had less 12V power and more 5V and 3.3V power, because the CPUs ran off of 5V. Now all the power hungry stuff: GPU, CPU, fans, hard drive motors; run off of 12V. It is more likley that the trend would be for more things to run from 12V, so most PSUs being built to modern standards should be fine for a while in that department. However, you may also run into new PCI-E connector standards. I think 5 years from a PSU even with upgrades is certainly a reasonable time to expect it to last....AS LONG AS you buy a quality unit. Older Antecs with crappy capacitors would die fairly early especially if run in a high heat environment.
 

HOOfan 1

Platinum Member
Sep 2, 2007
2,337
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Which Antec models should I avoid if getting something like a 650W or 750W PSU?

The models that I was talking about are not even made anymore and didn't go up to 750W anyway. Those were the old Truepower and Truepower II and Smartpower and Smartpower 2.0.

None of Antec's stuff now is particularly bad, but I would avoid the Earthwatts 750W, not because it is bad, but because you can buy better units for the same price, including the Antec True Power New series.