How much of a difference does the Subaru AWD make in snow and ice?

[Freejack2]

Today was one of those days I shouldn't have gone to work. Long story short my car is totaled and I need to get a new car. Considering my accident was due to the wintry mix of ice and show I'm wondering if having a car with AWD makes all that much difference.

My last car had traction control and abs but it did nothing to stop me from crashing. A new Accord has the VSC which I think is the equivalent but would having a car with AWD really make much of a difference? I'm hoping you good people of Anandtech can guide me on this.
Thanks and Moo.

 

[mc866]

AWD will assist in getting traction from the start especially on snow, it will potentially assist in helping you not get stuck in the snow as long as it's not too deep. AWD can potentially assist in keeping the car from spinning out while driving at normal speeds on snow. But AWD isn't going to give you many advantages on ice, instead of one or two wheels slipping depending on the AWD system you'll have more slipping on the ice.

 

[thedarkwolf]

Won't help you stop any better.

 

[Nyati13]

Originally posted by: mc866
AWD will assist in getting traction from the start especially on snow, it will potentially assist in helping you not get stuck in the snow as long as it's not too deep. AWD can potentially assist in keeping the car from spinning out while driving at normal speeds on snow. But AWD isn't going to give you many advantages on ice, instead of one or two wheels slipping depending on the AWD system you'll have more slipping on the ice.

2008+ models with VDC ( I can't remember if the L 2.5i gets that standard or as an option) can maintain 'thrust' as long as one wheel (any wheel) has traction, which can be a big help in icy situations. Obviously, if all 4 wheels are on ice, AWD vs FWD makes no difference.

 

[desy]

AWD+good winter tires > winter tires > awd

 

[DVad3r]

Explain your accident in more detail please. AWD won't help you stop better. Starting, traction, better control yes, it might help you avoid something.

 

[DVad3r]

I think the worst car I've seen perform in snow is a Camaro or a Mustang. The Camaro couldn't even get out of a parking lot without going sideways at 2 mph.

GG

You should get one of those and load it up with sand bags at the back

 

[Freejack2]

Originally posted by: Nyati13

Originally posted by: mc866
AWD will assist in getting traction from the start especially on snow, it will potentially assist in helping you not get stuck in the snow as long as it's not too deep. AWD can potentially assist in keeping the car from spinning out while driving at normal speeds on snow. But AWD isn't going to give you many advantages on ice, instead of one or two wheels slipping depending on the AWD system you'll have more slipping on the ice.

2008+ models with VDC ( I can't remember if the L 2.5i gets that standard or as an option) can maintain 'thrust' as long as one wheel (any wheel) has traction, which can be a big help in icy situations. Obviously, if all 4 wheels are on ice, AWD vs FWD makes no difference.

Edmunds states: Stability control is now standard on every 2009 Subaru Legacy except for 2.5 GT models equipped with the manual transmission.

Is this what you're talking about?

Explain your accident in more detail please. AWD won't help you stop better. Starting, traction, better control yes, it might help you avoid something.

Went to change lanes, even took my foot off the gas beforehand, hit the ice and the car lost control and headed straight for the guard rail.

 

[DVad3r]

Ouch man that sucks. Not sure what could of been done to avoid that. The impact of the ice at that speed made you loose control, but I am not sure if an AWD system that transfers power to any given wheel would of straightned you out in time, probably not. Also what kind of tires do you have on?

I personally drive a Lexus and it's got FWD with traction control. It works really well when accelerating and it keeps me going in a straight line instead of swirving from side to side, but that's about it. When in turns etc, I still slide around and my rear get's thrown out. Not sure if AWD and power at the back wheels would be able to correct something like that, not a car expert.

 

[suse920]

Originally posted by: desy
AWD+good winter tires > winter tires > awd

i would have to agree but experience > all

Every storm I see AWD vehicles with drivers that think they are invincible pass me on the highway, only to get stuck in a ditch a few miles up the road.

Unless its Extreme conditions (traveling 20mph or under) will i throw some sand in my bed or switch into 4x4.

Knowing the limits of your car for the conditions is far more important than how many wheels are getting power.

 

[Freejack2]

Originally posted by: DVad3r
Also what kind of tires do you have on?

BF Goodrich Traction T/A, the H rated with the AA traction.

 

[Dman877]

Driving safely in the snow is 60% driver, 30% tires, and 10% other things (like AWD, traction/stability control).

An AWD car with snow tires will be much easier to drive in the snow than a FWD with all-seasons but that AWD/snow tire vehicle driven by an idiot can be more hazardous than the FWD/all season car with a driver who knows what he's doing.

Changing lanes through that slushy buildup in between is a perfect example. If you are doing more than 30 mph and try to cross even a thin layer of that crap, you're asking for trouble. How fast you can take it depends on a lot of factors that you need to be aware of. Vehicle weight, tire traction, road direction (don't do it on a curve obviously), and conditions of the lane you are switching to. It's in these situations where large trucks/suv's actually make a difference.

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: Freejack2
Went to change lanes, even took my foot off the gas beforehand, hit the ice and the car lost control and headed straight for the guard rail.

AWD will NOT help on ice. The only thing that helps on ice is studded tires (OK, chains will help too).

The accident you described would not have been prevented by AWD. In fact, many people are lulled into a false sense of security by AWD and then they drive even faster, which would have made the accident worse, not better.

In the winter, a lot of people seem to think that AWD makes them invincible, but they forget that all cars made today have All Wheel Brakes.

ZV

 

[DVad3r]

The only thing that probably could of prevented your accident is vehicle weight. If you weighed a shitload you would plow through that ice patch and make the lane change instead of spiining out, that's why trucks don't really have lane change issues.

Only reasonble conclusion I could deduct after processing in my Temple.

 

[HannibalX]

Originally posted by: DVad3r
I think the worst car I've seen perform in snow is a Camaro or a Mustang. The Camaro couldn't even get out of a parking lot without going sideways at 2 mph.

GG

You should get one of those and load it up with sand bags at the back

These cars are typically equipped with high-performance "summer" tires, which are pretty slick and don't do well in snow and ice. The car itself really has little to do with it.

 

[suse920]

Originally posted by: iFX

Originally posted by: DVad3r
I think the worst car I've seen perform in snow is a Camaro or a Mustang. The Camaro couldn't even get out of a parking lot without going sideways at 2 mph.

GG

You should get one of those and load it up with sand bags at the back

These cars are typically equipped with high-performance "summer" tires, which are pretty slick and don't do well in snow and ice. The car itself really has little to do with it.

Actually the car has alot to do with it. Both of those cars are front engine rear wheel drive. Theres no weight over the rear wheels, throw some sand in, then tires will matter.

 

[Vette73]

To sum up.

AWD will not help you stop and if the tires are not good in the snow and/or the driver is also not good in the snow then AWD will do nothing.


The worst drivers always seem to be in 4x4's and AWD cars/suvs. Its because they think they can do what they want, yet i always see more accidents and cars in ditchs that are 4X4/AWD.


My first car was a Firebird. No abs, AWD, etc... yet any snow/ice I always made it safly. Mind you people kept passing me. Of course i also saw some of them from time to time in a ditch or 180 degrees later down the road.


i.e. its not the car that gets through bad weather, but the driver.

<-- All cars and truck are RWD and I live in N.VA.

 

[lurk3r]

Scubi's are fantastic on the snow, and better on the ice to get going, there is no difference when you're stopping. In fact, my 2002 Impreza's ABS system was much worse than the one in my 06 Altima. I ended up pulling the fuse on the Subi, and actually trust the Altima. I'd expect about the same level in the accord as the altima, but I see you're shopping new Subi's to so can't say for sure which would be better.

Having said that the ABS is much better in the newer car I must admit that I'm looking hard to trade my Altima in for a WRX hatch, but my decision has more to do with the fact I just hate driving a 4 door tan sedan than a dislike for the Altima.

 

[vi edit]

Traction control isn't the same as stability control. Traction just controls how fast the front wheels are spinning and will try to control that.

Stability control actually has a number of sensors around the vehicle that monitor various forces of physics and will control breaking at all four wheels to try and minimize those forces.

That being said, no safey feature or drivetrain configuration can overcome a complete lack of traction like you experienced. I think that sentiment has been pretty well proclaimed.

 

[Rustican]

Sorry to hear about your accident. Question though, did you hit a patch of ice or was the whole road a sheet of of the stuff. If it was just a patch, AWD could have helped if you still had some wheels gripping the road since power would have been transferred to them. If you hit a solid sheet and all your wheels were sliding, nothing could have helped except studded tiers or chains.

As stated before AWD does not help you stop. It does help you get through snow and ice. The best example i saw was when i was driving with friends in two cars. One was a Subaru with all season tiers and the other was a FWD VW Jetta with all snows. It was after a evening ice storm and we were heading up an incline to get out of a residential area. The Subaru ahead of us went up the hill easily. The Jetta followed the but the front wheels spun out 1/3 of the way up. Couldn't make it up at all. They had to find another route.

AWD isn't the end all be all of driving but it's nice to have.

 

[JDub02]

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: Freejack2
Went to change lanes, even took my foot off the gas beforehand, hit the ice and the car lost control and headed straight for the guard rail.

AWD will NOT help on ice. The only thing that helps on ice is studded tires (OK, chains will help too).

The accident you described would not have been prevented by AWD. In fact, many people are lulled into a false sense of security by AWD and then they drive even faster, which would have made the accident worse, not better.

In the winter, a lot of people seem to think that AWD makes them invincible, but they forget that all cars made today have All Wheel Brakes.

ZV

Yep.

AWD will help you with the going part, but tires make the biggest difference in the stopping department.

 

[Aikouka]

It was rather icy up here in NY yesterday, but luckily all the roads I take were clear.

Originally posted by: Freejack2
Went to change lanes, even took my foot off the gas beforehand, hit the ice and the car lost control and headed straight for the guard rail.

Even on "clear" roads, changing lanes is something I don't like to do in the winter, because the middle (where the line is) is almost never really clear. With just snow, I can feel the car lose a bit of traction just changing lanes on a highway .

What you really need are studded snow tires ! Heck, let's just go with chains!

 

[StageLeft]

Went to change lanes, even took my foot off the gas beforehand, hit the ice and the car lost control and headed straight for the guard rail.

AWD would have done nothing for you.

In the winter, a lot of people seem to think that AWD makes them invincible, but they forget that all cars made today have All Wheel Brakes.

I know, it remains some strange myth that people think AWD makes them "so much safer" in bad weather. I think it marginally increases safety. It's mainly nice because I personally hate spinning my wheels when trying to accelerate. Most winter crashes are caused by taking a corner too fast or not having enough time/room for braking, and AWD has zero impact on the latter and only marginal on the former if maintaining significant throttle while turning.

I think the worst car I've seen perform in snow is a Camaro or a Mustang.

They must be better now. I was very surprised how well a Hemi charger did in the snow with traction control.

The Subaru ahead of us went up the hill easily. The Jetta followed the but the front wheels spun out 1/3 of the way up. Couldn't make it up at all. They had to find another route.

A few weeks ago I had this problem and had to drive backwards a half mile to another road that had less snow on it. A guy in a 4X4 truck stopped when I was almost at the top to ask if I was ok. I said yes, then he hit the gas and up he went.

 

[maxcaleb]

This thread is full of very good advice. I own a WRX (still on the stock all seasons) and drive it up to Tahoe frequently.