How much more performance will $500.00 get me?

[Dashel]

Playing a new MMO and things are a bit sluggish. A friend says he doesnt have these problems so I'm assuming my PC is a bit older than I'd like to admit.

I play at 1920x1200 on a 25" monitor.

So, will just a new Video card hold me over and give me a significant, noticeable improvement? Video Card + Ram? Card, RAM and new HDD? Or do i just need to start over.

Current system:

Intel Core 2 Duo E8400 Wolfdale 3.0GHz LGA 775 65W Dual-Core Processor BX80570E8400
EVGA 512-P3-N845-AR GeForce 8800GTS (G92) KO 512MB 256-bit
ABIT IP35 Pro LGA 775 Intel P35 ATX Intel Motherboard
Western Digital Caviar Blue WD6400AAKS 640GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive
G.SKILL 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400)
Corsair HX 520 W PS

 

[Yuriman]

Depends on the game, but I'd bet $400 on a new mobo/cpu would net the most gain. The next poster will probably tell you to get a videocard, but MMOs are usually less heavy in the GPU department.

 

[OVerLoRDI]

It would help if you tell us which MMO you are playing.

 

[Arkaign]

$500 will get you :

Mobo/Cpu/Memory/GPU

Sell your old stuff, and you're golden.

Mobo $60

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813157199

CPU $150

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819103808

Memory $45

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820211409

GPU $Various

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-883-_-Product

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-921-_-Product

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-424-_-Product

~$500, PhII X4 BE (easy clock to ~3.6ghz on stock volts, better cooling and such easy 3.8-4.0 with the current steppings), 4GB DDR3-1600, Decent basic mobo with modern sata/pcie/usb/lan, and a great video card.

Sandy Bridge would be even better, but will break your $500 budget unless you calculate how much $ you can recoup on your current stuff that you resell, and it also sucks that the fixed mobos aren't out yet. The only other option is more $ on a socket 1156 setup, but at least that's not terribly expensive. You'd want to start with the lynnfield quads at minimum though, all of the i3s, and all of the lower end i5s are dual cores (the ones that match the price point of that PhII BE + Mobo).

 

[Dashel]

Hmm ok a lot to take in here. I was expecting "Buy this Video card and some more RAM". Thanks for all the info so far I'll have to look up what Sandy Bridges and Fixed Mobos are.

MMO I'm playing is Rift, but I'm also looking for long term gaming performance.

 

[Arkaign]

Yeah, you have a great PC as is, but for gaming its quickly becoming obsolete. It'd be a good idea to recoup as much $$ as possible before the value drops through the floor on S775 stuff.

PhII X4 BE is a great gaming chip, makes a good match for current single GPUs, Lynnfield and Sandy Bridge Quads are even better for the future and will mate well with GPUs coming out over the next year or two, while the X4 BE will fall behind. The fixed mobos will almost certainly slot in at nearly identical prices to the outgoing 1st-gen P67/etc socket 1155 mobos, so you can figure the budget based on that. A 2500K would make a seriously great chip for a two or three year plan, just pop a new video card in to replace whatever you get maybe in 18 months or so when it starts to struggle.

 

[Athadeus]

Based on the minimum and recommended hardware for Rift here http://trionworlds.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/14, I would say you would benefit more from just getting a new graphics card, and overclocking your CPU.

I think one of the GTX 460s would be really good for you. If you have been satisfied until now with an 8800GTS on 1920x1200, you probably would not find the image quality that you could achieve with a higher end card and higher settings worth the price.

It should provide the boost you want now, and as for longevity, building a new computer in 10-14 months with a 28nm GPU and selling the 460 would be a lot better than spending $250+ on a GPU now that will depreciate more.

 

[SmCaudata]

At 1920x1200 in rift my q9550 an hd6950 do well. I can play at ultra settings without AA. I can turn AA on if I turn down a few settings. I run about 60fps in the open and drop to low 30s in the cities.

 

[drizek]

At 1920x1200 in rift my q9550 an hd6950 do well. I can play at ultra settings without AA. I can turn AA on if I turn down a few settings. I run about 60fps in the open and drop to low 30s in the cities.

That's what I was going to recommend. Find a used Core 2 Quad for cheap, get a ~$200 video card like a 5850/6850/6870 or even a GTX 460 for less. Might also be worth getting a 6950 for $260 though if you want to future proof. Then just get another 4GB of ram for another 50 bucks, although you don't really need it.

You could also forget getting a new cpu/ram entirely. A GTX 460 for around $130 will probably fix you for now, and you can build a new system next year. I think buying DDR2 ram is a waste of money since it is obsolete, but if you can find it for cheap then go for it. Have you overclocked your E8400?

 

[Mogadon]

Personally I think you'd see some great benefits with a newer generation video card (5870 / 6850 / 6950 / Nvidia equivalent). You need to bear in mind that even a 9800 / 4870 would be an upgrade in this case.

You don't have to spend $500 either, $200ish should get you a good boost in vid card.

For a case in point, a while back I went from having an 8800GTS to a HD4870 (with similar CPU to you) and had some great results across the board.

If you want to spend $500ish you can go the whole hog and do a new generation mobo / cpu / ram / gpu. You might need to go a little over $500 but at that point it's all about what your preferences and limitations are.

 

[Clinkster]

I think a new video card by itself will lend you all the power you need to play every game out there. Most games still aren't optimized for quad core, and you've got C2D powerhouse.

Just spend the money to upgrade the 8800 (that IS def in need of an upgrade) and maybe get a new system a few years down the line (hopefully with more money too )

I recommend the 460.

 

[toyota]

I think a new video card by itself will lend you all the power you need to play every game out there. Most games still aren't optimized for quad core, and you've got C2D powerhouse.

Just spend the money to upgrade the 8800 (that IS def in need of an upgrade) and maybe get a new system a few years down the line (hopefully with more money too )

I recommend the 460.

that's not entirely true. and a game does not have to have to be optimzed for quad core to be faster. newer cpus such as any i5/i7 quad have much higher ipc and will easily beat core 2 quads never mind core duos even in games that don't effectively use 4 cores. in games that do use 4 cores that cpu of is would look pretty silly with a $500 gpu. his cpu is okay but is absolutely not appropriate for a $500 gpu.

 

[Dashel]

Well it's not so much that I mind spending the money, it's just that I wasnt prepared to do it right now I guess. I thought I'd wait til mid year and see what the current solid value and high performance build is and have at it.

I'd grab a new MB, Card, CPU, HDD and RAM now but sounds like a new tech is coming soon and I tend to research these things for a while. I'd rather not rush into a new build. I'm thinking maybe go along with a $250.00 ish card and hope that gets me through. It's not like my performance is terrible and my CPU is pretty solid still (I hope)

At 1920x1200 in rift my q9550 an hd6950 do well. I can play at ultra settings without AA. I can turn AA on if I turn down a few settings. I run about 60fps in the open and drop to low 30s in the cities.

Thanks for this, good to know. I definitely dont need ultra settings but I do need decent settings when there are a lot of people around, mostly for PvPing.

 

[Skurge]

that's not entirely true. and a game does not have to have to be optimzed for quad core to be faster. newer cpus such as any i5/i7 quad have much higher ipc and will easily beat core 2 quads never mind core duos even in games that don't effectively use 4 cores. in games that do use 4 cores that cpu of is would look pretty silly with a $500 gpu. his cpu is okay but is absolutely not appropriate for a $500 gpu.

Yeah, a good example would be SC2, it only uses about 2 cores, but i5/i7 are much faster than than C2Qs

 

[Dashel]

Last question (I think). Can someone give me specific cards to choose from that would work on my motherboard?

ABIT IP35 Pro LGA 775 Intel P35 ATX Intel Motherboard

My concern is I'll get something that doesnt fit now... Anything below say 250.00. Around 200 even would be ideal, but the best value for around that price. Are all the ones linked above ok for that Abit I have currently?

 

[Gryz]

Just buy a new videocard. Do NOT upgrade the rest of your system yet.

I play in the Rift beta too. E8500, 4GB ram and a GTX260. I play with (almost) all settings maxed out, and that weird AA option called "edge smoothing". I get 20-30 fps. Which feels pretty smooth in this game.

Rift will not use more than 2 cores. So your E8400 will do fine. Don't upgrade now. In the first betas, Rift used only 1 core. Just like other games using the same engine (Fallout3, etc). Maybe it's using a 2nd core now, but I haven't read anything about it. Although the framerates seemed higher than in the last beta, so they must have changed some stuff in the engine. However, imho it is very unlikely that Rift will soon (or ever) use 3 or 4 cores. So buying a i5 or i7 will give you *very* little performance increase. For quite a bit of money.

So spend your money upgrading your videocard.
A gtx560 or ati6950 or ati6970. Check out the prices. Should be somewhere around $250. Very affordable. And I'm sure you will see a big increase in your fps in Rift.

Later this year (H2 ?) Intel will release a new set of CPUs. Without integrated GPU (waste of transistors for gamers like us). I think that is the time to buy a new CPU+mobo+ram. This is exactly my own upgrade plan.

More RAM will not give you higher framerates. 4GB is more than enough for Rift (and most games). When you buy a new mobo, you'll probably be forced to buy 4 new GBs of DDR3 to replace your 4 GBs of DDR2. Not much we can do about that.

Another benefit of just upgrading your GPU. You can install the GPU, and test it. If it gives acceptable framerates, you have saved yourself the money for a new CPU/mobo/ram. Incremental upgrade plan. But you can always decide to upgrade CPU/mobo/ram if you like.

I wouldn't buy a Q9550. Clock-for-clock it isn't that much faster than a E8400. And it does have a lower clockspeed than a Q9550. Rift will not use the 3rd and 4th core, so the Q9550 will not be significantly faster than the E8400. Maybe even slower. Waste of money for a new CPU that's 2 generations behind the current one.

Have a look at this benchmark.
http://www.anandtech.com/bench/CPU/47
It is Fallout3. Same engine as Rift. I'm sure they have both been improved. But don't expect the two engines suddenly to be so different.
Results:
Fastest - i7 2600K - 97 fps
2nd place - i7 870 - 91 fps
11th place - E8400 - 87 fps
Q9550 - 84 fps

So just buy a new videocard to start with. Good investment. Don't waste money on a cpu/mobo/ram for double the price and only a few more fps.

 

[LiuKangBakinPie]

push that cpu to 3.4ghz

 

[Gryz]

Last question (I think). Can someone give me specific cards to choose from that would work on my motherboard?

ABIT IP35 Pro LGA 775 Intel P35 ATX Intel Motherboard

My concern is I'll get something that doesnt fit now... Anything below say 250.00. Around 200 even would be ideal, but the best value for around that price. Are all the ones linked above ok for that Abit I have currently?

Your motherboard does PCIE-1.0. The latest videocards all do PCIE-2.0. But don't worry, that's backwards compatible. The PCIE-2.0 cards will work in your PCIE-1.0 motherboard. You might lose a few (1-3?) percent framerate. So the GTX4x0, GTX5x0 and ATI68x0 and ATI69x0 will work just fine.

Some people complain that cards don't fit in their case. I don't think that's related to the motherboard, but to the case. Can't help you there. Most videocards say exactly how long they are in the product description. Take a look if it will fit in your case.

 

[toyota]

push that cpu to 3.4ghz

3.6(400x9) would be quite easy if he has an aftermarket cooler.

 

[LiuKangBakinPie]

they all go to 4ghz lol

 

[Arglebargle]

I was looking at my core useage on the last Rift beta, and it showed one core getting hit hard, and the other three around 40%. Can't say what else was going on, it was just simple curiosity at the time.

I was getting ~45-50 frames at 16x10 with my q6600 at oc'd to 3.15. Ati4870 Fairly high settings, with edge smoothing on.

 

[Dashel]

Just buy a new videocard. Do NOT upgrade the rest of your system yet.

I play in the Rift beta too. E8500, 4GB ram and a GTX260. I play with (almost) all settings maxed out, and that weird AA option called "edge smoothing". I get 20-30 fps. Which feels pretty smooth in this game.

...

So just buy a new videocard to start with. Good investment. Don't waste money on a cpu/mobo/ram for double the price and only a few more fps.

...

Your motherboard does PCIE-1.0. The latest videocards all do PCIE-2.0. But don't worry, that's backwards compatible. The PCIE-2.0 cards will work in your PCIE-1.0 motherboard. You might lose a few (1-3?) percent framerate. So the GTX4x0, GTX5x0 and ATI68x0 and ATI69x0 will work just fine.

Some people complain that cards don't fit in their case. I don't think that's related to the motherboard, but to the case. Can't help you there. Most videocards say exactly how long they are in the product description. Take a look if it will fit in your case.

Thank you very much for the advice, extremely helpful. I agree with everything you're saying here and I especially liked the Fallout 3 information. I had been wondering what the best comp was in terms of benchmarks for this game.

I have an Antec 900 which I think should be fine for the card size. Seems roomy.

Looking on Newegg these three stick out, I will buy one and then upgrade fully at the end of the year:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814130568

EVGA 01G-P3-1373-AR GeForce GTX 460 (Fermi) Superclocked EE 1GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814127510

MSI N460GTX CYCLONE 1GD5/OC GeForce GTX 460 (Fermi) 1GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814102909

SAPPHIRE 100314SR Radeon HD 6870 1GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.1 x16 HDCP Ready

 

[blanketyblank]

Out of those I'd get the 6870 since 460 1GB at $200 is overpriced. Remember 460 768 MB is like $90, and $110 for an extra 256MB is way too much IMO. If you're in the $200 range there are better options.
460 1GB should be about 150 where 6850 and 5850 play now. Sure the ones you linked are "superclocked", but you can do that yourself easily.

 

[Dashel]

Out of those I'd get the 6870 since 460 1GB at $200 is overpriced. Remember 460 768 MB is like $90, and $110 for an extra 256MB is way too much IMO. If you're in the $200 range there are better options.
460 1GB should be about 150 where 6850 and 5850 play now. Sure the ones you linked are "superclocked", but you can do that yourself easily.

I'm glad you said this because they did seem overpriced a bit. I'll have to research a bit more, I'm still out of the loop on which card gives more performance and by what margin.

 

[Vdubchaos]

umm, your E8400 is fine.

Just get a new Video card, 460 1gb for $150-180 should do the trick.

Can't believe people are telling you to get a new system when yours is perfectly fine.