Even with two sticks, don't you also have to have dual channel (sycronous) setup in the bios by using the same (unmultiplied) FSB for both CPU and System memory?
Even with two sticks, don't you also have to have dual channel (sycronous) setup in the bios by using the same (unmultiplied) FSB for both CPU and System memory?
There is a noticeable difference between 1GB and 2GB. Very noticeable in games like BF2 and Company of Heroes. Your mileage may vary but unless you are financially in a bind you should get the 2GB if you plan on playing games.
Lemon law
Lifer
- Nov 6, 2005
- 20,984
- 3
- 0
In terms of ram--which is more than normally expensibe now---part of what you don't want to do is shoot yourself in the foot---by making ram decisions now--and then having to throw away some of it in some future upgrade---so the first thing to know is how many memory slots you have---I bought a used computer with only two slots --some boards have 3 or even four.---but memory is generally going to work best in pairs.---and hopefully all the ram will be as fast as your mobo can handle and exactly matched--or it may go to slower ram timings that hurt performance.
Those that have more money may decide to just populate all slots with the max--1 GB sticks and be done with it---other cheaper more prudent types may go with less ram now--and gamble on upgrading when the need arises. But you heard the general advice--you probably will be better off with 512 MB to run XP---unless you are a gamer--or do lots of video editing--in which case get a gig or more for XP---figure to double those figures for Vista.
But the person I bought the computer off of has somewhat left me up the creek in terms of upgrading---I have 756 MB now in the form of one 512 MB stick and one 256 MB stick.
If I ever decide to go with 2 gigs ram---I have to scrap both sticks---and replace them with 2 one gig sticks---more likely I will replace the 256 stick with a 1 gig stick and settle for only 1.5 gigs for vista. But no matter what--I have to throw away some memory---maybe I can resell it--but its still not efficent.--but I am in no hurry to upgrade to vista---I will wait until I need to--and until vista is proven stable.
But if you have a 4 slot mobo--get two 512 MB sticks for now---and buy two more later if you need to---with zero ram to throw away when you up it to 2 gigs.
Those that have more money may decide to just populate all slots with the max--1 GB sticks and be done with it---other cheaper more prudent types may go with less ram now--and gamble on upgrading when the need arises. But you heard the general advice--you probably will be better off with 512 MB to run XP---unless you are a gamer--or do lots of video editing--in which case get a gig or more for XP---figure to double those figures for Vista.
But the person I bought the computer off of has somewhat left me up the creek in terms of upgrading---I have 756 MB now in the form of one 512 MB stick and one 256 MB stick.
If I ever decide to go with 2 gigs ram---I have to scrap both sticks---and replace them with 2 one gig sticks---more likely I will replace the 256 stick with a 1 gig stick and settle for only 1.5 gigs for vista. But no matter what--I have to throw away some memory---maybe I can resell it--but its still not efficent.--but I am in no hurry to upgrade to vista---I will wait until I need to--and until vista is proven stable.
But if you have a 4 slot mobo--get two 512 MB sticks for now---and buy two more later if you need to---with zero ram to throw away when you up it to 2 gigs.
Right now, if you are planning to run WindowsXP, then go with 1 GB. If you plan on being an early adopter of Windows Vista (which I would not recommend), then you might consider 2 GB.
Personally, I still run Windows 2000 Pro with 1 GB of RAM on my primary computer and it does everything that I ask of it. However, I see the day coming when I will finally have to adopt WindowsXP since Microsoft's support of Win2K will be ending.
Personally, I still run Windows 2000 Pro with 1 GB of RAM on my primary computer and it does everything that I ask of it. However, I see the day coming when I will finally have to adopt WindowsXP since Microsoft's support of Win2K will be ending.
Honestly, id reccomend the cheapest stuff you can find from a decent brand.
Spend the extra $ on CPU or Video Card. (video card 1st)
lxskllr
No Lifer
- Nov 30, 2004
- 59,468
- 9,981
- 126
That's just wording, they're the same thing. I'd get the DDR2-800 since it's basically the same price. I don't think the timing's as important with the C2Ds as it was with the P4s. If you're not going to run the ram up to it's max speed you may also be able to tighten them up a bit.
For the amount of ram I'd get 2gb. That's for highend gaming and Vista. If you're not doing either of them then 1gb will be enough. You could even start with 1 and when prices fall, buy another. You don't need more than 1gb right now, but I think you will in the near future for top performance.
My earlier comment on the gfx card wasn't a recomendation for Nvidia. I was just saying that I don't follow what ATI is doing, so I don't know where that card you listed falls in the grand scheme of things. My strategy was to buy a high medium end card so that if DX10 proves worthwhile, I wouldn't have too much invested in a DX9 card. I was going to get the 7950gx2, but to spend $500 on a gfx card I'd need it to last at least 2 years. I may want to have Vista before that amount of time.
Acanthus,
Thanks for the advice, I really am ready to take it. Looking at some of the cheapest DDR-533 at New egg, $105 (shipped) seems about the going rate for a 1 gig stick of ddr-533, but there is a rebate deal for PQI Power memory that goes for $180 shipped (after rebates). Don't know if pqi is reputable, but that's a $40 savings off of the cheapest 2gigs of DDR-800 OCZ memory I also found on Newegg ($220 shipped after rebates). Assuming these brands and prices are legitimate, the question is, is it worth $40 for the performance boost I'll get from the OCZ?
If you have any patience left for me at all, please see my original post for a recent edit.
Thanks for the advice, I really am ready to take it. Looking at some of the cheapest DDR-533 at New egg, $105 (shipped) seems about the going rate for a 1 gig stick of ddr-533, but there is a rebate deal for PQI Power memory that goes for $180 shipped (after rebates). Don't know if pqi is reputable, but that's a $40 savings off of the cheapest 2gigs of DDR-800 OCZ memory I also found on Newegg ($220 shipped after rebates). Assuming these brands and prices are legitimate, the question is, is it worth $40 for the performance boost I'll get from the OCZ?
If you have any patience left for me at all, please see my original post for a recent edit.
For a price increase that small, if you plan on overclocking it would be worth it to pick up the OCZ, if youre not going to overclock, save your money.
Edit: Someone might know if PQI uses the Elpeida memory chips that easily clock to DDR800, i know there are a number of value brands that use those specific chips on their modules. If they do use the elpeida chips, save yourself $40 and pick up the cheap stuff.
It damaged performance pretty significantly even all the way back in the Athlon XP days, my aching suspicion is it would damage performance but i dont have any hard numbers.
I think I'll go OCZ Gold 2Gig DDR-800 for $220 (if the price stays long enough for me to make up my mind... he he). I certianly plan to overclock the E6400, but not necessarily the system ram. Just for newbie clarity, if I run the FSB at 400 and double that for 800 for the system ram rated at DDR2-800, then that's NOT considered overclocking, right? I might play around with overclocking by playing with the timings a little, but if it's not 100% stable I'll just use default ratings. I don't plan to try to push the memory beyond 800.
In the case of cheap/value sticks that easily overclock to 800, what kind of life can I expect from those? I probably won't upgrade again for at least a couple years.
Finally, I heard the GA-965P-S3/DS3 has had trouble with the OCZ sticks including the Gold series. I've read this in other forums and aritlces, but said aritcles and forums are dated now and preceed the latest gigabyte bios. Any chance you've heard something about this? At the least it looks like I might have to up the voltage a bit.
I appreciate the help, info, and advice,
Ken
You may need to have a 1.8v stick of ram avail. to get to the Bios to adjust the ram voltage I am sitting here just intalling XP on my new GA 965p S3 and E6400 and it posted first time 
out using Corsair 2x512 6400/800 newegg # N82E16820145566 I am sure the 1gb or 2gb set would work as well. I would stay away from the OZC for this Board for now.
Amos
out using Corsair 2x512 6400/800 newegg # N82E16820145566 I am sure the 1gb or 2gb set would work as well. I would stay away from the OZC for this Board for now.Amos
I can't answer your questions or give you any advice (I'm in the same boat as you when it comes to memory), but Newegg has a deal on some 2gb Corsair memory
CORSAIR XMS2 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory
$230 after MIR with free shipping. Corsair is apparently a very reliable brand and it's only $10 more than the OCZ.
Hope that helps. :beer:
CORSAIR XMS2 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory
$230 after MIR with free shipping. Corsair is apparently a very reliable brand and it's only $10 more than the OCZ.
Hope that helps. :beer:
Just stumbled on the same Corsair memory for $228 at ZZF.
Link
Also found the C4 version in the hot deals forum for $249.99. Apparently there are some issues with availability though.
Link
Also found the C4 version in the hot deals forum for $249.99. Apparently there are some issues with availability though.
Thanks MB, I'll seriously consider it. Saw you over at Jarreds guide. Have you decided on your mem yet?
Originally posted by: MadAmos
You may need to have a 1.8v stick of ram avail. to get to the Bios to adjust the ram voltage I am sitting here just intalling XP on my new GA 965p S3 and E6400 and it posted first time
Amos
I was worried about the OCZ... thanks for the warning. Looks like MadBadger found a nice deal on the 2gig version. I'm gonna have to think about it. When you say "you may have to have a 1.8v stick avail to post the bios" are you referring to the problem the S3 has with OCZ or were you worried you might need it to use before install in Corsair as well?
Hi khenderson. Yea, I saw your post over there (great questions btw). I don't know if you noticed or not, but Jarred posted a reply. Go check it out, it has some good info. I also posted a longer-than-intended reply to his comments.
About the mem, I was actually planning on waiting for deals. I'm not in that big of a hurry and if I can save a significant amount of money by waiting another month (Kentfield release, current downward trend in C2D prices, release of Bad Axe 2), I can deal with that. Plus, from my research, just about every damn component that I want for my system was on sale in September. I'm hoping October will be a good month for rebates too.
That said, after having done some research, other than an incredible Crucial sale last month (this kit for $190 :|:shocked::|), there haven't been many sales on the higher quality ram (Crucial, Corsair etc.)
Long story short, I bought the 2 gb from Corsair for $230. The only drawbacks are that it's CAS 5 and that it's not that great of an OCer. But, if I understand how memory/FSB works (which I think I do now), then we won't need to OC the memory (like you mentioned in your post on Jarred's guide.) Also, like you noticed, for 2 Gb of RAM from a reliable manufacturer, you are going to have to pay around $200 anyways (even if it's a slower speed). The choice right now seems to be $200 ish for slower RAM or $230 for Corsair PC6400 RAM. At least that's what I found.
If I decide to build now, then I'll just crack it open and pop them in, but if I decide to wait or if a better deal comes along, I can either return them or sell them online if it's after the 30 days.
Anyhow, that's my take on things. It sounds like we can both see the light at the end of the tunnel. After all the research I've been doing for it, I'm glad everthing's almost set.
Sometimes, though, ignorance is bliss. That crucial deal hurts. So do all the other deals that I found. I think it came out to about $160 savings. That's like, 50 of these!
About the mem, I was actually planning on waiting for deals. I'm not in that big of a hurry and if I can save a significant amount of money by waiting another month (Kentfield release, current downward trend in C2D prices, release of Bad Axe 2), I can deal with that. Plus, from my research, just about every damn component that I want for my system was on sale in September. I'm hoping October will be a good month for rebates too.
That said, after having done some research, other than an incredible Crucial sale last month (this kit for $190 :|:shocked::|), there haven't been many sales on the higher quality ram (Crucial, Corsair etc.)
Long story short, I bought the 2 gb from Corsair for $230. The only drawbacks are that it's CAS 5 and that it's not that great of an OCer. But, if I understand how memory/FSB works (which I think I do now), then we won't need to OC the memory (like you mentioned in your post on Jarred's guide.) Also, like you noticed, for 2 Gb of RAM from a reliable manufacturer, you are going to have to pay around $200 anyways (even if it's a slower speed). The choice right now seems to be $200 ish for slower RAM or $230 for Corsair PC6400 RAM. At least that's what I found.
If I decide to build now, then I'll just crack it open and pop them in, but if I decide to wait or if a better deal comes along, I can either return them or sell them online if it's after the 30 days.
Anyhow, that's my take on things. It sounds like we can both see the light at the end of the tunnel. After all the research I've been doing for it, I'm glad everthing's almost set.
Sometimes, though, ignorance is bliss. That crucial deal hurts. So do all the other deals that I found. I think it came out to about $160 savings. That's like, 50 of these!
Originally posted by: MadBadger
Hi khenderson. Yea, I saw your post over there (great questions btw). I don't know if you noticed or not, but Jarred posted a reply. Go check it out, it has some good info. I also posted a longer-than-intended reply to his comments.
About the mem, I was actually planning on waiting for deals. I'm not in that big of a hurry and if I can save a significant amount of money by waiting another month (Kentfield release, current downward trend in C2D prices, release of Bad Axe 2), I can deal with that. Plus, from my research, just about every damn component that I want for my system was on sale in September. I'm hoping October will be a good month for rebates too.
That said, after having done some research, other than an incredible Crucial sale last month (this kit for $190 :|:shocked::|), there haven't been many sales on the higher quality ram (Crucial, Corsair etc.)
Long story short, I bought the 2 gb from Corsair for $230. The only drawbacks are that it's CAS 5 and that it's not that great of an OCer. But, if I understand how memory/FSB works (which I think I do now), then we won't need to OC the memory (like you mentioned in your post on Jarred's guide.) Also, like you noticed, for 2 Gb of RAM from a reliable manufacturer, you are going to have to pay around $200 anyways (even if it's a slower speed). The choice right now seems to be $200 ish for slower RAM or $230 for Corsair PC6400 RAM. At least that's what I found.
If I decide to build now, then I'll just crack it open and pop them in, but if I decide to wait or if a better deal comes along, I can either return them or sell them online if it's after the 30 days.
Anyhow, that's my take on things. It sounds like we can both see the light at the end of the tunnel. After all the research I've been doing for it, I'm glad everthing's almost set.
Sometimes, though, ignorance is bliss. That crucial deal hurts. So do all the other deals that I found. I think it came out to about $160 savings. That's like, 50 of these!
Hey MadBadger,
I read your latest post under the mid range guide comments. The recap was helpful for me just to hear someone say it out loud. My system goals are a little different than yours as I'm not interested in future proofing. I've bulit a few PCs over the last few years and it just never seems to pay to upgrade mostly because I don't upgrade often enough and everything changes anyway. Also, I'm tired of the noise, so to avoid noise and cut down on extra costs (and to save wear and tear) I decided to only moderately overclock. Back on topic, I only want to use the stock intel fan and when that can't cool the CPU I'll stop overclocking. If I can reach 3.0 or 3.2, I'll be happy. That's where I was coming from with the memory and why I thought I'd need less than the guide recommended and why I'm a little lost being I'm not a total overclocker, but nor am I settling for stock speeds.
After thinking long and hard, I passed on the memory, although you did find some nice deals on the corsair. If the MIR had given me more time I might have still gone that way. Problem is, I don't have any components yet except the case itself and I wanted a little more time to look for deals. As I'm sure youv'e considered, once you buy the memory you're on a 30 day stop watch to test it. I think with zipzoomfly it's 15 days. Also, I wanted to take another look at so called "value" memory and see if that would work. I just didn't quite have my research together and couldn't bring myself to pull the trigger. I hope I don't regret it!
Other than that let's compare notes. What the cheapest price you found for the x1900 GT 256MB (shipped)? I saw it for 195 once, but in the last couple weeks I've been pretty set on the X1900XT 256MB. I'm pretty sure I saw it going for $245 on a couple occassions with $260 being a little more common. The only other hesitation is that I haven't looked into Nvidia as much lately. If the price and performance is close I just might go that way partly because I hear the 1900s are pretty loud. What was the lowest you saw video cards going for and where from? Where did you see $230/250?
What about the E6400? Ewiz has it right now for about $218 which is as low as I've seen it. I think I'll stay with this CPU instead of the E6600 because after a certain level I'm in it for the gaming and it seems to me that the GPU is going to be my bottleneck. Even if I do get the XT, I still think the GPU will be the bottleneck and that's what it's all about... trying not to pay too much for hardware that's going to get bottlenecked by the weakest link, so to speak.
One benefit the sound card might have given you is that when you use a "off'board soundcard it frees up CPU power, or at least that's what they tell me. Then again, some of this sound card software really sucks the memory down. I don't know the mobos you're considering but I'm guessing the come with decent onboard sound. The one I'm looking at does, but I'll probalby still use my sound card just because I have it already.
Other than that, have you come across any guides on overclocking the GPU? I haven't even looked into this yet, but it might really pay off.
Thanks for your help,
Ken
And oh, Madbadger,
You probably saw this arleady but here's a good guide to testing that rig once you put it together:
http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview...atid=28&threadid=1901991&enterthread=y
You probably saw this arleady but here's a good guide to testing that rig once you put it together:
http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview...atid=28&threadid=1901991&enterthread=y
Hi Ken,
Looks like you didn't miss anything with the memory. Newegg still has the same deal up until the 19th. I'll keep my eye open, and if a better deal comes along I'll return the Corsair. Let's hope that one does!
The cheapest 1900 GT 256 I found is $200 shipped. I haven't seen any recent rebates for it.
The cheapest X1900XT 256MB I found is $255 shipped.
It was selling for $246 a couple of weeks ago with a Newegg rebate.
I've also read about how loud the 1900XT is and was a little concerned with that myself. I guess it depends on the case that you have.
I haven't looked into the Nvidia cards much. I used to have a geforce4 4200 (?) and it was ok but nothing to write home about. I like what the reviews have said about ati and it seems to be a great performer, so I figured I'd try it out. I'm sure there are plenty good things about the current Nvidia cards though. Unfortunately, I can't give you more advice on the matter since my card is so old and I'm a bit out of touch with current technology.
I agree with you about the 6400. Especially if you're going to be overclocking it. I'm mainly upgrading to the 6600 because I have some extra money now that I'm not going to get a display.
About the sound card, yea, you're right. I guess I'm just going to try it out for myself. If it's good enough for me, then great. If not I'll wait for a sale on the x-fis (I just missed one by a couple weeks. $50 off the lowest price I could find right now)
I haven't found any guides on overclocking a gpu. sorry. I don't plan on OCing much if at all (reliability and stability are the most important things for me). I also usually hold on to things for far longer than most (my trinitron monitor has got to be almost 10 years old). Don't want to risk shortening the lifespan of my system by OCing it (although, really I don't have any data to support the notion that light OCing will shorten the lifespan of a system by any significant amount). Now that I think about it, my stereo system is also nearly 10 years old as is my 32" TV. Never once had a problem with any of it *knock on wood* Technology-wise I seem to still be living in the 90s! But it works for me, and it's definitely been a money saver.
I don't know if you use these or not, but these are the sites I use for looking for rebates or deals:
Anandtech real time pricing
Froogle
Pricegrabber
DealTime
Dealnews
Fatwallet
Slickdeals
GottaDeal
Hot Bargains
Techdeals
Various hotdeals forums (FatWallet, GottaDeal, Anandtech, HardOCP, Toms Hardware)
I also use google to check for rebates. I usually enter " "product model number" rebate"
That's why I'm finding all these 2 week old deals on almost everything I'm interested in after doing some research :|!
Also, I don't know if this will be useful, but this site seems to have good explanations of many things pc related: PC Guide
Hope that helps and good luck with the build! :beer:
ps thanks for the like to the guide, I'm sure that will save me lots of time!
Looks like you didn't miss anything with the memory. Newegg still has the same deal up until the 19th. I'll keep my eye open, and if a better deal comes along I'll return the Corsair. Let's hope that one does!
The cheapest 1900 GT 256 I found is $200 shipped. I haven't seen any recent rebates for it.
The cheapest X1900XT 256MB I found is $255 shipped.
It was selling for $246 a couple of weeks ago with a Newegg rebate.
I've also read about how loud the 1900XT is and was a little concerned with that myself. I guess it depends on the case that you have.
I haven't looked into the Nvidia cards much. I used to have a geforce4 4200 (?) and it was ok but nothing to write home about. I like what the reviews have said about ati and it seems to be a great performer, so I figured I'd try it out. I'm sure there are plenty good things about the current Nvidia cards though. Unfortunately, I can't give you more advice on the matter since my card is so old and I'm a bit out of touch with current technology.
I agree with you about the 6400. Especially if you're going to be overclocking it. I'm mainly upgrading to the 6600 because I have some extra money now that I'm not going to get a display.
About the sound card, yea, you're right. I guess I'm just going to try it out for myself. If it's good enough for me, then great. If not I'll wait for a sale on the x-fis (I just missed one by a couple weeks. $50 off the lowest price I could find right now
)I haven't found any guides on overclocking a gpu. sorry. I don't plan on OCing much if at all (reliability and stability are the most important things for me). I also usually hold on to things for far longer than most (my trinitron monitor has got to be almost 10 years old). Don't want to risk shortening the lifespan of my system by OCing it (although, really I don't have any data to support the notion that light OCing will shorten the lifespan of a system by any significant amount). Now that I think about it, my stereo system is also nearly 10 years old as is my 32" TV. Never once had a problem with any of it *knock on wood* Technology-wise I seem to still be living in the 90s! But it works for me, and it's definitely been a money saver.
I don't know if you use these or not, but these are the sites I use for looking for rebates or deals:
Anandtech real time pricing
Froogle
Pricegrabber
DealTime
Dealnews
Fatwallet
Slickdeals
GottaDeal
Hot Bargains
Techdeals
Various hotdeals forums (FatWallet, GottaDeal, Anandtech, HardOCP, Toms Hardware)
I also use google to check for rebates. I usually enter " "product model number" rebate"
That's why I'm finding all these 2 week old deals on almost everything I'm interested in after doing some research :|!
Also, I don't know if this will be useful, but this site seems to have good explanations of many things pc related: PC Guide
Hope that helps and good luck with the build! :beer:
ps thanks for the like to the guide, I'm sure that will save me lots of time!
----I've also read about how loud the 1900XT is and was a little concerned with that myself. I guess it depends on the case that you have.
I started a new post about the noisey x1900 256 in this same forum just today. SparkyJJO gave me a link for a one with a quiet fan, but it comes at a premium: $312-shipped
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814161028
I went with the Antec Solo for a case (about $80) w/o PSU. It's an Antec p-150 with a new paint job. Anyway, it's supposed to be built with quiet operation in mind, but I wouldn't recommend it for extreme overclocking.
Anyway, thanks for taking the time to share what youv'e learned. I'll definitely be exploring some of your tips and a couple of those price-compare websites (although I've been through most of them).
6600 might very well be the best way to go for you, but make sure you weigh the cost against a GPU upgrade which might, as a bottom line, be more benefical for gaming than a CPU upgrade. I'm not knowledgable enough to be more assertive.
Thanks again. Good luck and good gaming.
Ken
Thanks for the heads up on the thread. I just noticed I didn't answer your question about the 6400. That's the lowest price I found as well.
Hmm, you're right, I didn't think about CPU vs. GPU for my situation...I'll mostly use my system for image editing, music storage and burning, and everyday tasks. Gaming is really secondary for me (but when I do decide to game I want to be able to get my moneys worth). I'm guessing the CPU upgrade is probably more beneficial for me, but I'll have to look into it. Either way, thanks for bringing it up
Cheers! :beer:
Hmm, you're right, I didn't think about CPU vs. GPU for my situation...I'll mostly use my system for image editing, music storage and burning, and everyday tasks. Gaming is really secondary for me (but when I do decide to game I want to be able to get my moneys worth). I'm guessing the CPU upgrade is probably more beneficial for me, but I'll have to look into it. Either way, thanks for bringing it up
Cheers! :beer:
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