how much longer will we enjoy tax free online purchases?

Jul 10, 2007
12,041
3
0
i think the party will be over within the next 3 years.

The e-tax man cometh.

As early as this week, Sen. Dick Durbin (D-Ill.) told The Post he will propose sweeping legislation to tax all online purchases -- in a move aimed at closing state budget shortfalls.

Such a tax would plow more than $1 billion in tax revenues into the state coffers for the 2012 budget, according to some estimates.

William Fox, University of Tennessee economics professor, says that based on his own estimates, New York lost about $865.5 million in tax revenues in 2010 -- almost enough to close that year's $1 billion budget deficit -- based on its 4 percent tax rate.
Sen Dick Durbin will put up a bill in Congress ending the tax-free status for Web purchases, since sales are now robust.
AFP/Getty Images
Sen Dick Durbin will put up a bill in Congress ending the tax-free status for Web purchases, since sales are now robust.

However, Fox acknowledges that a research report he helped author last year didn't appropriately factor the blistering pace of online sales growth over the past several years.

Fox estimates that the annual growth rate for online sales is actually about 14 percent from 2006 to present.

"We were intentionally more conservative in our earlier studies," he said, noting that the study factored a growth in e-commerce at a more modest 9.9 percent.

Some reports indicate that online sales hit a whopping $165 billion in 2010 -- an annual growth rate closer to 15 percent, which would put New York's tax receipts close to $1 billion.

Durbin's bill, dubbed the Main Street Fairness Act, is being portrayed as an end to the tax holiday that online shoppers on major Internet vendors like Amazon.com, Overstock.com and even Apple's App stores have been enjoying for years.

Online companies already pay state taxes in the states in which they reside, but many politicians, including those in New York, Illinois and Connecticut, recently have been pushing to collect taxes from customers on purchases made outside the state if the sites have vendors that physically reside within their states.

Durbin's proposal, which he plans to introduce as soon as tomorrow, intends to push Internet vendors to collect state taxes on items purchased out of state.

"Why should out-of-state companies that sell their products online have an unfair advantage over Main Street bricks and mortar businesses?" Durbin said in a statement.

For more than a decade, the burgeoning Internet sales market has enjoyed a Congressionally sponsored advantage via sales tax moratoriums, established in 1998, to foster growth in the digital sales business.

But with e-commerce vendors like Amazon no longer fledgling entities and states and cities like New York and Illinois facing budget deficits, e-commerce taxes have become a hot-button issue.

Professor Fox says that for states it's not just the busted state vaults that are at issue; letting digital vendors slide on taxes is also a big drain on the job market.

"If an online tax standard is established, it's a winner for our country. It's that simple," Fox said.

Big Internet vendors, however, are not going to give up their advantages without a fight.

Amazon severed ties with online affiliates and fled to avoid taxes after Illinois Democratic Governor Pat Quinn created a law to tax purchases made online in the state at the same 6.25 percent rate as traditional bricks and mortar sales.

Amazon also has waged tax war in New York to avoid paying taxes at the state's nearly 4 percent rate. Amazon also recently closed its Texas operations after a squabble with lawmakers over taxing shipments.

The prickly issue is a complex one for many, and has created strange bedfellows, with some bricks and mortar businesses like Wal-Mart, BestBuy and Target lining up with proponents of an online tax.

That's even as those same companies expand their own traditional sales business into cyberspace in competition with the Amazons of the world.

It's unclear what sort of headwinds Durbin may face in trying to get the bill approved. As it stands, his current bill is the second iteration of an identical one last year that never made it to the floor for a vote.
 

Bignate603

Lifer
Sep 5, 2000
13,897
1
0
This isn't really anything new and technically you're supposed to be paying that tax anyways. However, most people are clueless, choose to ignore it, or just don't want to keep track of the value of their online purchases. I fail to see why people get so upset about this.
 

Fingolfin269

Lifer
Feb 28, 2003
17,948
34
91
People may get a little upset but they'll get over it much easier that a regular 'new' tax. Make it happen.
 

0roo0roo

No Lifer
Sep 21, 2002
64,795
84
91
online purchases tend to be for optional expenses, so it hurts the poor the least.
its time to stop giving some busineses unfair tax avoidance.
 

RockinZ28

Platinum Member
Mar 5, 2008
2,171
49
101
F that. Government already gets enough of my check. Another 9.75% is bs.

Stop giving it to illegals and leeches, and themselves, and use it to fix things like all the pothole riddled roads and ill be more inclined to pay up.
 

rudeguy

Lifer
Dec 27, 2001
47,351
14
61
F that. Government already gets enough of my check. Another 9.75% is bs.

Stop giving it to illegals and leeches, and themselves, and use it to fix things like all the pothole riddled roads and ill be more inclined to pay up.

get a car with a real suspension and it won't be as big of a deal
 

Fingolfin269

Lifer
Feb 28, 2003
17,948
34
91
F that. Government already gets enough of my check. Another 9.75% is bs.

Stop giving it to illegals and leeches, and themselves, and use it to fix things like all the pothole riddled roads and ill be more inclined to pay up.

Maybe revenue from taxing your online purchases, you know those same purchases you used to have to make down the street instead of online 15 years ago, would be sufficient for taking care of those "pothole riddled roads" you're referring to.

It's time to level the playing field. I'm not a huge fan of taxes (who is?) but do think it's ridiculous that if I were to open a "widget" store locally that it would actually be easier for me to sell to people via out of state online purchases vs. those who could just walk in.
 
Apr 17, 2005
13,465
3
81
they should make a standard 5% (or whatever) tax on all online purchases. not some bullshit rule where it depends on where the warehouse is located or some nonsense like that.
 

techs

Lifer
Sep 26, 2000
28,559
4
0
they should make a standard 5% (or whatever) tax on all online purchases. not some bullshit rule where it depends on where the warehouse is located or some nonsense like that.

I think that's the point of it being proposed in the Senate. Currently states really can't do anything about a company that doesn't have a business presence in that state, so they need national legislation. That said, I think it should be up to each state how much to charge. Otherwise you will face situations like in New Hampshire which has no state sales tax having its citizens taxed for online purchases.
 

techs

Lifer
Sep 26, 2000
28,559
4
0
Maybe revenue from taxing your online purchases, you know those same purchases you used to have to make down the street instead of online 15 years ago, would be sufficient for taking care of those "pothole riddled roads" you're referring to.

It's time to level the playing field. I'm not a huge fan of taxes (who is?) but do think it's ridiculous that if I were to open a "widget" store locally that it would actually be easier for me to sell to people via out of state online purchases vs. those who could just walk in.

Agreed. Interestingly it tends to be the lowest tax states that have the worst roads.
In fact Yahoo Finance has a story on it:
http://finance.yahoo.com/insurance/article/112549/worst-roads-america-mainstreet

Worst 5 states for roads:
1. Louisiana
2. North Carolina
3. Oklahoma
4. West Virginia
5. Arkansas

btw interesting that most of these are not "cold weather" states where the winter weather tends to wear out roads much faster.
 

Bignate603

Lifer
Sep 5, 2000
13,897
1
0
they should make a standard 5% (or whatever) tax on all online purchases. not some bullshit rule where it depends on where the warehouse is located or some nonsense like that.

The tax rate will depend on the address the product it being shipped to. While this would have been difficult for smaller businesses to keep track of years ago because there are many different state and local sales taxes it's very feasible now for payment services to keep track of that for them. Many smaller online businesses use some sort of payment service already so this could be incorporated into that without the business owner having to do a thing.
 

dud

Diamond Member
Feb 18, 2001
7,635
73
91
On-line taxation is inevitable.

Taxation in general is at it's lowest rate in 50 years (and people are complaining that taxes are still too high) ... yet we have a huge budget deficit.

Taxes in general ill have to increase significantly in the next few years and spending will have to drop.

The standard of living in this country (for most) will be impacted by these actions. While people complain about taxes ... most of that money goes right back to the people in the form of Medicare and Social Security. The impacts of this are already being felt. Talk to someone on SS and ask them how the are doing financially. SS benefits have been frozen for two years, hurting those who can least afford it.
 

RockinZ28

Platinum Member
Mar 5, 2008
2,171
49
101
get a car with a real suspension and it won't be as big of a deal

Haha. I'm just using roads as an example. I've read these reports for CA and their estimated 1 billion+ in extra revenue. Problem is Los Angeles alone spends over a billion a year supporting illegals.



Maybe revenue from taxing your online purchases, you know those same purchases you used to have to make down the street instead of online 15 years ago, would be sufficient for taking care of those "pothole riddled roads" you're referring to.

It's time to level the playing field. I'm not a huge fan of taxes (who is?) but do think it's ridiculous that if I were to open a "widget" store locally that it would actually be easier for me to sell to people via out of state online purchases vs. those who could just walk in.

I'm not old enough. I specifically got my first debit card for making online purchases. Getting taxed on expensive goods will be an unfamiliar experience, and in all likelihood cause me to spend less money.
 

SarcasticDwarf

Diamond Member
Jun 8, 2001
9,574
2
76
The tax rate will depend on the address the product it being shipped to. While this would have been difficult for smaller businesses to keep track of years ago because there are many different state and local sales taxes it's very feasible now for payment services to keep track of that for them. Many smaller online businesses use some sort of payment service already so this could be incorporated into that without the business owner having to do a thing.

True, but it is still going to be a major headache and cost for smaller businesses. I suspect that this will have a lot of unintended consequences as well. Ex: I pay/donate $5/month through Paypal for special access to a particular TF2 server. All of a sudden the person that takes in a few hundred a month needs to be calculating in sales tax and such.
 

Capt Caveman

Lifer
Jan 30, 2005
34,543
651
126
True, but it is still going to be a major headache and cost for smaller businesses. I suspect that this will have a lot of unintended consequences as well. Ex: I pay/donate $5/month through Paypal for special access to a particular TF2 server. All of a sudden the person that takes in a few hundred a month needs to be calculating in sales tax and such.

You're paying for a service and not a product, you wouldn't be taxed.
 

techs

Lifer
Sep 26, 2000
28,559
4
0
True, but it is still going to be a major headache and cost for smaller businesses. I suspect that this will have a lot of unintended consequences as well. Ex: I pay/donate $5/month through Paypal for special access to a particular TF2 server. All of a sudden the person that takes in a few hundred a month needs to be calculating in sales tax and such.

Actually its not hard at all. Every accounting, business, finance program has allowances for sales tax by zip code. Just put in the zip and it tells you how much tax. In fact, its easier than keeping a gps updated since sales taxes don't change as often as roads.

Unless your running your business by hand on paper, it won't be a problem.
 

Hacp

Lifer
Jun 8, 2005
13,923
2
81
Actually its not hard at all. Every accounting, business, finance program has allowances for sales tax by zip code. Just put in the zip and it tells you how much tax. In fact, its easier than keeping a gps updated since sales taxes don't change as often as roads.

Unless your running your business by hand on paper, it won't be a problem.

If you like paying taxes so much, you are welcome to pay everyone else's taxes. Normal people don't like paying taxes so government workers can have a lofty pension.