How much longer will Obama last?

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: RyanPaulShaffer

"Shut up and get out of the way!" How can the Republicans "obstruct" anything when they are being totally ignored in the process?

We've already covered this. Reading comprehension my good friend Ryan, reading comprehension. Don't worry, once you nail it down you won't have to use those 'confused' faces anymore.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: blanghorst

Which, if you have been following most of my posts, gets to my point. Both parties suck and only do what is in their own best interests -- not the nation's best interest.

Just so we're clear, you are now willing to also blame the Republicans? I'm not so much concerned with hanging some guilt on their heads as I am with having a rational assessment of what's going on in Congress.

Honestly though, I don't fault the parties for playing politics. (that's why they are political parties after all) It wouldn't matter what political party was in power, the current 2, 2 new ones, or 20 new ones. That's what people do. I do hope that we can call it out for what it is though.

In the big picture, I blame both parties for the mess we're in. As far as specific issues goes, I have to evaluate each one. I personally don't agree with the health care proposal originally proposed by the Democrats, so in my worldview, I am not sure if "blame" is the right word to use with regards to the Republicans since they oppose it.

But in the end, the blame game is useless and is a distraction. I just find it mildly entertaining (and I suspect this was Bober's point) that many on the left here (not you specifically), upon winning the White House and majorities in Congress, were gloating and promising all sorts of changes and making bold promises/guarantees, and now that perhaps their biggest pet project may not pan out as intended, are trying to pin the blame on Republicans. You can't help but laugh.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: blanghorst

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: blanghorst

Which, if you have been following most of my posts, gets to my point. Both parties suck and only do what is in their own best interests -- not the nation's best interest.

Just so we're clear, you are now willing to also blame the Republicans? I'm not so much concerned with hanging some guilt on their heads as I am with having a rational assessment of what's going on in Congress.

Honestly though, I don't fault the parties for playing politics. (that's why they are political parties after all) It wouldn't matter what political party was in power, the current 2, 2 new ones, or 20 new ones. That's what people do. I do hope that we can call it out for what it is though.

In the big picture, I blame both parties for the mess we're in. As far as specific issues goes, I have to evaluate each one. I personally don't agree with the health care proposal originally proposed by the Democrats, so in my worldview, I am not sure if "blame" is the right word to use with regards to the Republicans since they oppose it.

But in the end, the blame game is useless and is a distraction. I just find it mildly entertaining (and I suspect this was Bober's point) that many on the left here (not you specifically), upon winning the White House and majorities in Congress, were gloating and promising all sorts of changes and making bold promises/guarantees, and now that perhaps their biggest pet project may not pan out as intended, are trying to pin the blame on Republicans. You can't help but laugh.

I would very much wait and see on this health care bill... I think the Republicans may have overplayed their hand. While I think the Democrats are reluctant to ram something through, I think they will choose to do that instead of passing nothing. Whatever they ram through will probably look an awful lot like what Obama promised from the beginning if they choose to go that way.

As for making bold promises and guarantees, I can't think of any President in my lifetime that has had a more productive first 8 months than Obama. (at least in terms of implementing his agenda, agree with it or not) So far he hasn't failed on a single thing. I guess we'll see how this goes, but the game is pretty heavily stacked in his favor at least from a legislative standpoint. The only thing I really have to complain about so far is his atrocious stand on civil liberties, but I hardly think a Republican would have been better.

 

[RyanPaulShaffer]

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: RyanPaulShaffer

"Shut up and get out of the way!" How can the Republicans "obstruct" anything when they are being totally ignored in the process?

We've already covered this. Reading comprehension my good friend Ryan, reading comprehension. Don't worry, once you nail it down you won't have to use those 'confused' faces anymore.

Yes, we've already covered that the Republicans can't "obstruct" anything because 1. they don't have the votes and 2. they have effectively been shut out of the process at a very early stage of the game by the Democrats.

Oh, and we've also covered that when you know you're wrong in an argument, you break out the condescending insults and attack the messenger and dodge the message. But, this is nothing new.

 

[Robor]

Originally posted by: Duwelon

Originally posted by: Obsoleet
Independent here. Voted for Obama. So far, he's been better than Bush. I'd like to see the wars either shutdown or finally a comprehensible explanation as to why they're going on. Other than that, I'll likely be voting for Obama again in 2012.
Also, I think I'd like to see a heavily regulated insurance industry rather than a public option. Romney should've been run in 2008 honestly, crazy mormon or not he'd had a shot at my vote due to his less warlike nature.

One thing I'd like for Republicans to change is the projection that war is cool and a positive, patriotic thing in any way shape or form. Seeing the flag connected to the gun and the cross is a pretty disgusting combo.

If brave men and women stood up and fought back against tyrants, this world would be a lot more peaceful place. Instead, we have spaghetti spined cowards predominately on the left who let tyrants run amok that cause thousands of times more harm than a war to remove them would because good people didn't stop them. Life isn't fair and tyrants don't give up their power willingly. Sacrifices must be made to remove them, whether it's a relatively quick "tear off the bandaid" of a war or the slow, agonizing misery of letting a tyrant keep an iron grip on their people at the edge of a gun, is our choice.

All my friends who supported the invasion of Iraq supported it on the grounds alone that Saddam was an evil SOB who needed to be disposed of like Hitler was. Too many Americans however turn their heads at the slow agonizing suffering of people under a dictator, so it's no wonder they're opposed to ending the suffering through military action.

Bullshit.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: RyanPaulShaffer

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: RyanPaulShaffer

"Shut up and get out of the way!" How can the Republicans "obstruct" anything when they are being totally ignored in the process?

We've already covered this. Reading comprehension my good friend Ryan, reading comprehension. Don't worry, once you nail it down you won't have to use those 'confused' faces anymore.

Yes, we've already covered that the Republicans can't "obstruct" anything because 1. they don't have the votes and 2. they have effectively been shut out of the process at a very early stage of the game by the Democrats.

Oh, and we've also covered that when you know you're wrong in an argument, you break out the condescending insults and attack the messenger and dodge the message. But, this is nothing new.

Ryan, if you look at my post above yours you will see what happens when someone with whom I disagree posts a rational and decently reasoned post. You'll note that I never respond to you that way. As for your ideas about what the Republicans can or cannot do, all I can do is suggest you read a book about politics, preferably after you brush up on the reading comprehension and statistics. I'm definitely correct in my argument, but I don't think that matters to you. (I find it extremely unlikely that you are actually attempting to rationally judge what's going on here.)

This is as nice as you're going to get out of me, you don't deserve anything more.

I'm condescending to you because what you write is stupid.

 

[Robor]

Originally posted by: BoberFett
Careful, those tears are going to short out your keyboard.

Don't let them get in the way of the facts.

 

[RyanPaulShaffer]

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: RyanPaulShaffer

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: RyanPaulShaffer

"Shut up and get out of the way!" How can the Republicans "obstruct" anything when they are being totally ignored in the process?

We've already covered this. Reading comprehension my good friend Ryan, reading comprehension. Don't worry, once you nail it down you won't have to use those 'confused' faces anymore.

Yes, we've already covered that the Republicans can't "obstruct" anything because 1. they don't have the votes and 2. they have effectively been shut out of the process at a very early stage of the game by the Democrats.

Oh, and we've also covered that when you know you're wrong in an argument, you break out the condescending insults and attack the messenger and dodge the message. But, this is nothing new.

Ryan, if you look at my post above yours you will see what happens when someone with whom I disagree posts a rational and decently reasoned post. You'll note that I never respond to you that way. As for your ideas about what the Republicans can or cannot do, all I can do is suggest you read a book about politics, preferably after you brush up on the reading comprehension and statistics. I'm definitely correct in my argument, but I don't think that matters to you. (I find it extremely unlikely that you are actually attempting to rationally judge what's going on here.)

This is as nice as you're going to get out of me, you don't deserve anything more.

I'm condescending to you because what you write is stupid.

Yes, sorry, posting news articles and facts is "stupid" to the left. I forgot...my bad.

FYI, you haven't actually addressed any of the points I made, even though I posted news articles to back up my position. You went straight for the insults. I'm not the one being "stupid" here, but carry on in your self-actualized "superiority".

:roll:

 

[BoberFett]

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: blanghorst

Which, if you have been following most of my posts, gets to my point. Both parties suck and only do what is in their own best interests -- not the nation's best interest.

Just so we're clear, you are now willing to also blame the Republicans? I'm not so much concerned with hanging some guilt on their heads as I am with having a rational assessment of what's going on in Congress.

Honestly though, I don't fault the parties for playing politics. (that's why they are political parties after all) It wouldn't matter what political party was in power, the current 2, 2 new ones, or 20 new ones. That's what people do. I do hope that we can call it out for what it is though.

Why blame Republicans? Would you blame Democrats for not voting for the "National Force Everyone to Pray to the Christian God Day" bill?

You're asking a tiger to change it's stripes.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: RyanPaulShaffer

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Ryan, if you look at my post above yours you will see what happens when someone with whom I disagree posts a rational and decently reasoned post. You'll note that I never respond to you that way. As for your ideas about what the Republicans can or cannot do, all I can do is suggest you read a book about politics, preferably after you brush up on the reading comprehension and statistics. I'm definitely correct in my argument, but I don't think that matters to you. (I find it extremely unlikely that you are actually attempting to rationally judge what's going on here.)

This is as nice as you're going to get out of me, you don't deserve anything more.

I'm condescending to you because what you write is stupid.

Yes, sorry, posting news articles and facts is "stupid" to the left. I forgot...my bad.

There you go making up strawmen again. I don't find news articles and facts stupid, I find you stupid. I hardly think I'm alone.

 

[RyanPaulShaffer]

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: RyanPaulShaffer

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Ryan, if you look at my post above yours you will see what happens when someone with whom I disagree posts a rational and decently reasoned post. You'll note that I never respond to you that way. As for your ideas about what the Republicans can or cannot do, all I can do is suggest you read a book about politics, preferably after you brush up on the reading comprehension and statistics. I'm definitely correct in my argument, but I don't think that matters to you. (I find it extremely unlikely that you are actually attempting to rationally judge what's going on here.)

This is as nice as you're going to get out of me, you don't deserve anything more.

I'm condescending to you because what you write is stupid.

Yes, sorry, posting news articles and facts is "stupid" to the left. I forgot...my bad.

There you go making up strawmen again. I don't find news articles and facts stupid, I find you stupid. I hardly think I'm alone.

You don't know what the term "strawman" means. In case you can't read, I did in fact post numerous articles backing up my position. You did not address any of them.

What are you, 12? Seriously, "I find you stupid and nobody likes you nyah nyah nyah!" That's the best you have?

Here's a new and scary thought: actually address the points that were made instead of insulting the poster. It might be enlightening.

 

[Wheezer]

unless some magic happens real soon....I'd say 4 and out but politics is a funny game.

 

[evident]

Originally posted by: Obsoleet
Independent here. Voted for Obama. So far, he's been better than Bush. I'd like to see the wars either shutdown or finally a comprehensible explanation as to why they're going on. Other than that, I'll likely be voting for Obama again in 2012.
Also, I think I'd like to see a heavily regulated insurance industry rather than a public option. Romney should've been run in 2008 honestly, crazy mormon or not he'd had a shot at my vote due to his less warlike nature.

One thing I'd like for Republicans to change is the projection that war is cool and a positive, patriotic thing in any way shape or form. Seeing the flag connected to the gun and the cross is a pretty disgusting combo.

This is the reason why i can never vote for a republican again after what i've seen them do the past 8 years. they have this child like romanticized view of war like in old war movies.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: RyanPaulShaffer

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: RyanPaulShaffer

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Ryan, if you look at my post above yours you will see what happens when someone with whom I disagree posts a rational and decently reasoned post. You'll note that I never respond to you that way. As for your ideas about what the Republicans can or cannot do, all I can do is suggest you read a book about politics, preferably after you brush up on the reading comprehension and statistics. I'm definitely correct in my argument, but I don't think that matters to you. (I find it extremely unlikely that you are actually attempting to rationally judge what's going on here.)

This is as nice as you're going to get out of me, you don't deserve anything more.

I'm condescending to you because what you write is stupid.

Yes, sorry, posting news articles and facts is "stupid" to the left. I forgot...my bad.

There you go making up strawmen again. I don't find news articles and facts stupid, I find you stupid. I hardly think I'm alone.

You don't know what the term "strawman" means. In case you can't read, I did in fact post numerous articles backing up my position. You did not address any of them.

What are you, 12? Seriously, "I find you stupid and nobody likes you nyah nyah nyah!" That's the best you have?

Here's a new and scary thought: actually address the points that were made instead of insulting the poster. It might be enlightening.

A strawman is a deliberate misrepresentation of another's position in order to make it easy to defeat. Saying that the left considers 'news articles' and 'facts' to be stupid misrepresents the position taken on what you have posted in order to make it easier to defeat. It is the definition of a strawman. Gotta add that to your study list.

I'm not calling you stupid in the schoolyard taunt sense, I'm calling you stupid after reading quite a few of your posts. You use words that you don't understand the definition of, you frequently cite facts incorrectly, you are extremely poor at reading for comprehension, and you have difficulty constructing a rational argument. This leads me to the reasonable conclusion that you simply aren't very bright.

 

[Wreckem]

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: blanghorst

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: blanghorst

Which, if you have been following most of my posts, gets to my point. Both parties suck and only do what is in their own best interests -- not the nation's best interest.

Just so we're clear, you are now willing to also blame the Republicans? I'm not so much concerned with hanging some guilt on their heads as I am with having a rational assessment of what's going on in Congress.

Honestly though, I don't fault the parties for playing politics. (that's why they are political parties after all) It wouldn't matter what political party was in power, the current 2, 2 new ones, or 20 new ones. That's what people do. I do hope that we can call it out for what it is though.

In the big picture, I blame both parties for the mess we're in. As far as specific issues goes, I have to evaluate each one. I personally don't agree with the health care proposal originally proposed by the Democrats, so in my worldview, I am not sure if "blame" is the right word to use with regards to the Republicans since they oppose it.

But in the end, the blame game is useless and is a distraction. I just find it mildly entertaining (and I suspect this was Bober's point) that many on the left here (not you specifically), upon winning the White House and majorities in Congress, were gloating and promising all sorts of changes and making bold promises/guarantees, and now that perhaps their biggest pet project may not pan out as intended, are trying to pin the blame on Republicans. You can't help but laugh.

I would very much wait and see on this health care bill... I think the Republicans may have overplayed their hand. While I think the Democrats are reluctant to ram something through, I think they will choose to do that instead of passing nothing. Whatever they ram through will probably look an awful lot like what Obama promised from the beginning if they choose to go that way.

As for making bold promises and guarantees, I can't think of any President in my lifetime that has had a more productive first 8 months than Obama. (at least in terms of implementing his agenda, agree with it or not) So far he hasn't failed on a single thing. I guess we'll see how this goes, but the game is pretty heavily stacked in his favor at least from a legislative standpoint. The only thing I really have to complain about so far is his atrocious stand on civil liberties, but I hardly think a Republican would have been better.

This whole productivity thing is a complete myth. He hasnt done anymore than other Presidents in their first 8 months, and the larger pieces of his agenda have yet to pass. Cap and Trade while passing the House isnt coming up for vote in the Senate anytime soon because they dont have the votes. Healthcare is edging closer to DoA since the moderate Dems and liberal Dems cannot seem to compromise. Any healthcare bill will suffer lack of enough votes in the Senate as well.

Obama has spent all of his political capital and all the larger pieces of his agenda are still sitting their waiting. As the days go by the less and less likely they will get passed. Whats not passed this fall, will NOT get passed anytime soon, if ever.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: Wreckem

This whole productivity thing is a complete myth. He hasnt done anymore than other Presidents in their first 8 months, and the larger pieces of his agenda have yet to pass. Cap and Trade while passing the House isnt coming up for vote in the Senate anytime soon because they dont have the votes. Healthcare is edging closer to DoA since the moderate Dems and liberal Dems cannot seem to compromise. Any healthcare bill will suffer lack of enough votes in the Senate as well.

Obama has spent all of his political capital and all the larger pieces of his agenda are still sitting their waiting. As the days go by the less and less likely they will get passed. Whats not passed this fall, will NOT get passed anytime soon, if ever.

You better notify the rest of the right about this, they think that Obama has America careening towards socialism at a breakneck pace.

You're more than welcome to think that Obama's accomplishments over the last 8 months aren't significant, I think you're wrong. Same about health care, while nothing is certain in this world, I'd very comfortably take bets that Obama's health care plan ends up just fine.

 

[Wreckem]

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: Wreckem

This whole productivity thing is a complete myth. He hasnt done anymore than other Presidents in their first 8 months, and the larger pieces of his agenda have yet to pass. Cap and Trade while passing the House isnt coming up for vote in the Senate anytime soon because they dont have the votes. Healthcare is edging closer to DoA since the moderate Dems and liberal Dems cannot seem to compromise. Any healthcare bill will suffer lack of enough votes in the Senate as well.

Obama has spent all of his political capital and all the larger pieces of his agenda are still sitting their waiting. As the days go by the less and less likely they will get passed. Whats not passed this fall, will NOT get passed anytime soon, if ever.

You better notify the rest of the right about this, they think that Obama has America careening towards socialism at a breakneck pace.

You're more than welcome to think that Obama's accomplishments over the last 8 months aren't significant, I think you're wrong. Same about health care, while nothing is certain in this world, I'd very comfortably take bets that Obama's health care plan ends up just fine.

They arent any more siginificant than any other president. Stop drinking the cool-aid already.

As for healthcare. Tonight is the tipping point for healthcare and Obama's presidency.

If he cannot get his party to agree and compromise. Healthcare is dead and Obama's presidency is forever tranished.

The odds of him getting the Blue Dogs to be sacarficial lambs is almost non exsistent. The odds of him getting the far left to compromise is even more non exsistent.

 

[Obsoleet]

Originally posted by: jonks

Originally posted by: Vic
Landslide re-election in 2012. Taking bets now.

you betcha?

and this is why:

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: Obsoleet
Independent here. Voted for Obama. So far, he's been better than Bush. I'd like to see the wars either shutdown or finally a comprehensible explanation as to why they're going on. Other than that, I'll likely be voting for Obama again in 2012.
Also, I think I'd like to see a heavily regulated insurance industry rather than a public option. Romney should've been run in 2008 honestly, crazy mormon or not he'd had a shot at my vote due to his less warlike nature.

One thing I'd like for Republicans to change is the projection that war is cool and a positive, patriotic thing in any way shape or form. Seeing the flag connected to the gun and the cross is a pretty disgusting combo.

lol you're not an "Independent."

Not lock-step far right? Reps don't want you. They don't want specter, powell, snowe or anything resembling moderate. A shrinking white old conservative religious powerbase in a country leaning younger, more diverse, more secular.

That's why I left the GOP. I'm 27, grew up in a GOP family of business owners. I went to sign up for the war after finishing my bachelors and my parents said "no, don't waste your degree", "wait for them to come and get you" ect. My WW2 combat veteran grandfathers both suggested against it as well. 1 said to go to Canada if they come for me. Purple Heart veterans here, Marine and Army Air Corp that invaded Germany from Italy (first mission bombing Munich for one). So no family of cowards here. My cousin (which in my family is another word for brother), left for his 2nd tour in Iraq yesterday (12-18 months, stoplossed, and a combat grunt who's already seen more than his share of firefights during the surge).
Listening to those who descend from a line of cowards who vote Republican and blow smoke about war just doesn't cut it for me.

Those who have a functioning sense of judgement, and have been shot with flak, bleeding at subzero temps at 50,000 feet above Nazi territory, don't support it.

Basically common sense told me I'd been lied to about the entire war effort and while it's pretty shameful I couldn't come to the conclusion beforehand.. seeing my parents not willing to sacrifice my life for the cause told me I can't let others die in my stead.

It's just not right, and we've seen 0 benefits from the wars and we more than likely never will. Just more dead people on both sides than there would've been otherwise, which even 1 of those lives is worth a billion barrels of oil.. not that we got any of that anyway to even make that case.



While I'm a little iffy about some of Obama's initiatives.. he's ambitious and trying. I support that, he's trying to do something positive too and he will get a lot more positive things done than Bush or any other Republican President that's hanging out there will do. Both parties want power, but the Democrats seem to at least have an idea about what they'd like to do and they communicate it.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: Wreckem

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: Wreckem

This whole productivity thing is a complete myth. He hasnt done anymore than other Presidents in their first 8 months, and the larger pieces of his agenda have yet to pass. Cap and Trade while passing the House isnt coming up for vote in the Senate anytime soon because they dont have the votes. Healthcare is edging closer to DoA since the moderate Dems and liberal Dems cannot seem to compromise. Any healthcare bill will suffer lack of enough votes in the Senate as well.

Obama has spent all of his political capital and all the larger pieces of his agenda are still sitting their waiting. As the days go by the less and less likely they will get passed. Whats not passed this fall, will NOT get passed anytime soon, if ever.

You better notify the rest of the right about this, they think that Obama has America careening towards socialism at a breakneck pace.

You're more than welcome to think that Obama's accomplishments over the last 8 months aren't significant, I think you're wrong. Same about health care, while nothing is certain in this world, I'd very comfortably take bets that Obama's health care plan ends up just fine.

They arent any more siginificant than any other president. Stop drinking the cool-aid already.

As for healthcare. Tonight is the tipping point for healthcare and Obama's presidency.

If he cannot get his party to agree and compromise. Healthcare is dead and Obama's presidency is forever tranished.

The odds of him getting the Blue Dogs to be sacarficial lambs is almost non exsistent. The odds of him getting the far left to compromise is even more non exsistent.

I guess we'll see, eh? Bad bet on your part. I'm bookmarking this post for later.

 

[seemingly random]

Originally posted by: Obsoleet
...
That's why I left the GOP. I'm 27, grew up in a GOP family of business owners. I went to sign up for the war after finishing my bachelors and my parents said "no, don't waste your degree", "wait for them to come and get you" ect. My WW2 combat veteran...

Similar situation, different time. A relative knew people when we lived near dc and got deferments from the vietnam draft for a couple of other relatives. One knows it, the other doesn't. Both are wingnut, pro-war republiholes. These are also the people who rush to take advantage of any government financial program when possible. I can't stand to be around them and often am not since they are always trying to bait people at family functions to listen to their heartless, neanderthal views.

 

[Kanalua]

I think he will have a real battle for the presidency in 2012, not a long awaited anointing like he did in 2008.

Even still, 2012 is a long way away. No one can predict what will happen in the next three years. Obama may turn his presidency around and make a strong run for a second term (Clinton, Reagan) or Obama could lose political capital on bi-partisan battles, domestic failings and/or foreign disasters and become a one term president (Bush, Sr., Carter).

We also can't tell who will be the Republican candidate in 2012. Romney looks and acts like the front runner. Palin just will not go away, no matter how much liberal Dems and the Mass Media wish they could make her go away. Who knows who will step up to the plate and take the GOP in the direction it needs to possibly make Obama's presidency a historic and short one (Jindal, Jeb Bush, Pawlenty, Barbour, Fiorina, etc)...

 

[Obsoleet]

Originally posted by: seemingly random

Originally posted by: Obsoleet
...
That's why I left the GOP. I'm 27, grew up in a GOP family of business owners. I went to sign up for the war after finishing my bachelors and my parents said "no, don't waste your degree", "wait for them to come and get you" ect. My WW2 combat veteran...

Similar situation, different time. A relative knew people when we lived near dc and got deferments from the vietnam draft for a couple of other relatives. One knows it, the other doesn't. Both are wingnut, pro-war republiholes. These are also the people who rush to take advantage of any government financial program when possible. I can't stand to be around them and often am not since they are always trying to bait people at family functions to listen to their heartless, neanderthal views.

I feel the same way about Republicans now. I probably can't say all Republicans, as they have to be different in the northeast or other places to some extent.. but the tent's small enough most will have to fit certain criteria or they'd be out (like me).

For me, it seems that party has little purpose anymore. Both parties are corporate puppets, but the Republicans take it even further in the name of the economy (worked out well). No one in their right mind believes they are the small-gov't party.

What's most disturbing is the supporters, whether it's in personal friendships or workplaces.. they are obsessed and completely wild in their zeal against everything Obama. Even if Obama ends up a failure, I won't be joining their side.

One thing I've concluded is true, most of the anti-Obamism is in a blind opposition to the socialism boogeyman, but the other half of it is racially motivated. It's not said, but you should see some of the email forwards going out among white Republicans about Obama. It's racial and they all think it's funny, period. Full disclosure, I'm a blue eyed caucasian male, and white people don't hide their racism when they're together as a group. A nonwhite person would never realize how wrong it would be to vote with the party that these people identify with. They're wicked and don't know shit about the world.

A lot of times when Republicans speak, they are asking to be educated. They seem more interested in debating or hearing your ideas than leftists, because they really don't understand them because they've never really opened their mind to the ideas.
I know how GOP families maintain themselves, it's a vacuum where certain ideas are not and cannot be considered. Most liberal people accept the idea that free markets work for some things, and socialism works for others and heavy regulation for others. For me, this is a moderate or an independent. Modern Republicans aren't free-market, they are corporate assistants or fascists in other terms under the propaganda of free markets and Ronald Reagan. Bush wasn't afraid to bail out GM or the financial industry.

 

[seemingly random]

It would be foolish to group *all* republicans together on everything. But one thing I've noticed is that they always come to the defense of another republican regardless of the offense. This is why they've earned the description of being in lock-step with each other.

Republicans put party first - even over country. I don't care how many excuses or explanations are made for this - it's wrong and arrogant. Democrats kind of defend their own but can easily question something that doesn't smell right. Republicans will grin and bear the stench and, with a straight face, describe it as roses.

Republicans are anti-obama because he's not a republican. Plain and simple. Since they can't attack anything major, they're trying to kill him with a thousand cuts.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

Originally posted by: BoberFett

Originally posted by: Vic
Landslide re-election in 2012. Taking bets now.

Yep. The idiot Republicans continue to aim at their feet and pull the trigger. If that bunch of morons would just shut the hell up the Democrats would sink themselves in a few years.

We need a new major party to replace the Republicans. They're tits on a boar.

Perfect summary. I think Obama will be re-elected unless a catastrophe of epic proportions happens.