How much is too much (investing/saving)

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Stunt

Diamond Member
Jul 17, 2002
9,717
2
0
How much is too much (investing/saving)
-->If you end up a dead homeless person with $1m strapped to your chest.

Honestly, you can never have enough savings; there's enough temptation out there to buy toys and enjoy life that you likely won't have a problem with too much savings.

Right now I save 46% of my take home salary.
 

mugs

Lifer
Apr 29, 2003
48,920
46
91
Originally posted by: TallBill
Originally posted by: vi_edit
Originally posted by: TallBill
I must be the only Anandtech user with no interest in IRA's. I have no intentions in working untill I'm 60, so I want access to my money before that. Then again, hopefully I'll be federally retired at 45 without any need whatsoever of outside savings.

Not many of us have "20 and out" gauranteed Federal Pensions. That makes a big difference in retirement planning/goals.

True enough. Dont get me wrong though, I hope to have enough to actually retire regardless of the retirement income. Then I can live it up!

On a government salary?
 

Slew Foot

Lifer
Sep 22, 2005
12,379
96
86
Originally posted by: mugs
Originally posted by: TallBill
Originally posted by: vi_edit
Originally posted by: TallBill
I must be the only Anandtech user with no interest in IRA's. I have no intentions in working untill I'm 60, so I want access to my money before that. Then again, hopefully I'll be federally retired at 45 without any need whatsoever of outside savings.

Not many of us have "20 and out" gauranteed Federal Pensions. That makes a big difference in retirement planning/goals.

True enough. Dont get me wrong though, I hope to have enough to actually retire regardless of the retirement income. Then I can live it up!

On a government salary?



The VA has a ridiculous pension plan for healthcare workers. 80% of salary after 20 years of work.

Plus last year they changed the pay scale to be more in line with private hospitals as opposed to government ones. Great work if you can get it :)
 

KCfromNC

Senior member
Mar 17, 2007
208
0
76
Originally posted by: TallBill
I must be the only Anandtech user with no interest in IRA's. I have no intentions in working untill I'm 60, so I want access to my money before that. Then again, hopefully I'll be federally retired at 45 without any need whatsoever of outside savings.
No reason you can't split it between IRA and taxable accounts. Even if you retire at 45, that money in the IRA can compound for 15 more years tax free to provide for living expenses after the post-tax accounts are spent. Most of us aren't counting on social security to help out all that much.

But as others mentioned, if you've got a fat government check coming in every month, it might not make a difference. But even then, Roth IRAs are really nice for estate planning, if you plan to leave something behind when you go.

 

codename47

Member
May 11, 2005
148
0
0
Originally posted by: b0mbrman
Originally posted by: codename47

A friend told me I'm doing what is called getting poor slowly but ?? I don't know if I agree. He said I need to be making 8-9% on my money for it to be considered making a profit due to fees, taxes, and inflation.

That sounds familiar. Does he usually offer hot stock tips after he says this?

No stock tips or anything like that. He is 60 and about ready to retire and I think from what he tells me he is doing pretty well. However he makes more than I do so?? Facilities/maintenance workers make soooo much money! I'm a scientist and he is a Boiler, WFI system mechanic and he makes a large sum more than I might ever make.

It does sound like I need to diversify my funds a bit. Maybe doing some "buckets" for short term gain and then rolling that into higher gain items throughout my life. I started doing a 401k when I was 21 so I'm going to have a good amount of time under my belt even if I retire really early, which I'd like to. Even if I got a job on the side after retirement to make spending cash it would be worth it to be done with "work". I've actually got one pension plan already coming in from a company that got bought out that I work for and my current company also provides a pension as well as healthcare if I'm here within 10 years of retirement. I'd imagine healthcare will be the largest expense unless the government steps in or we get all social like the folks up north (not that, that would be a good thing) :)

I'll keep looking into some of the suggestions you all have provided. Thanks again for the help b/c I know I want my money to do more for me then what it currently is.
 

paulxcook

Diamond Member
May 1, 2005
4,277
1
0
Thanks for making this thread. Even though not everything you read on ATOT is worth the pixels they appear in, some of it is just common sense that I simply hadn't thought of.
 

markgm

Diamond Member
Aug 23, 2001
3,291
2
81
I currently invest ~18% of my salary and that'll go up to 24% this fall. I don't think you can save enough. If you have too much money you can just retire early!
 

dullard

Elite Member
May 21, 2001
25,913
4,506
126
I love these threads, how did I miss this one? I'll post some things that might go against your intuition, so I realize that you might not follow them. But, they are something to consider.

1) There is a big risk when people under-save. But there is also a problem with over-saving. Rule #1 of a successful person: pay yourself first. Life isn't about accumulating a mass of money. Life is about enjoying yourself to the fullest. If you undersave, you'll be miserable later on, so lets avoid that. But if you oversave, you never let yourself enjoy life; again lets avoid that. I think you are really running the risk of oversaving. Now is the time of your life when you can most enjoy certain things like a trip. You have two good incomes and no kids, so take your wife off to some exotic isle. Once you come back, then look at your savings/investments plans and post back here. I'm not advocating undersaving, but I want you to save well AND have a great life.

2) Stop the whole life insurance if you can without losing most of your money. There are many reasons to ditch it. (a) You have no need for any kind of life insurance at the moment - no dependants and you each can support yourselves with jobs. So if one of you die, there will be no financial hardship. Thus, you have no need for any form of life insurance. But if you really want it, get term life instead. (b) Whole life insurance is a mediocre life insurance combined with mediocre retirement investment both with excessive fees. Why settle for two poor products? Instead, get a great term life insurance and combine that on your own with a great retirement investment both with low fees. All you are doing now is taking your good money and padding the wallets of your insurance company and its salesforce.

3) Face the math. I assume you are in the 25% tax bracket (if you are not, change the numbers). That means you are really earning 5.25% * (3/4) = 3.94% interest on your savings (even less if you include state taxes). Inflation has been running near 3% (actually a bit higher not too long ago). Thus, your friend was correct. You are earning basically nothing at all on your investments. You are barely beating inflation when you could do far better.

4) I feel the old 6-month savings adage is now outdated. Why? We now have so many ways to pay for emergency times without needing liquid cash. Let me just assume your mortgage is at 6% (a reasonable number considering recent rates). Thus, to have $10,000 in savings at 5.25%, your mortgage must be $10,000 larger at 6.00%. You are in effect LOSING 6%-5.25% = 0.75% on all of that savings. So, for each $10,000 you have in savings, you lose $75 a year. If you have $30k in savings, you are getting $1575/year in interest but you are losing $1800/year in interest on your house. Instead of socking away $30k, pay off $30k of your mortgage and open up a $30k HELOC (but don't borrow any from it yet) for your unexpected emergencies. In the very worst case scenario, you can refinance and get that money right back out and probably still be ahead financially.

5) It is noble that you want to pay for your kid's education. But you don't need that money liquid this far in advance and you may be hurting yourself by doing so. Why? If this is for college, you won't need it for 20-30 years, so there is no point in being liquid now. Also, your kids will be ineligible for many scholarships and for federal aid. Heck, they might even be lazy in school and do poorly because "mommy and daddy will pay for college, I don't have to work now". Just a thought. My parents told us early on that we had to save for our own college or earn scholarships. So that is what we did - we as kids put any money we got into savings accounts and we earned scholarships (nearly full ride for all of us).

Basically, focus your money in riskier areas. Yes, it is a risk to get stocks (but historically they return far more than what you are getting now). Yes, it is a risk to drop your whole life insurance (but you can do far better with term life and good stocks separately). Yes, it is a risk to have less liquid money (but you are actually LOSING money as it is and that guaranteed lost money that is even riskier than stocks).
 

LordSnailz

Diamond Member
Nov 2, 1999
4,821
0
0
Originally posted by: dullard
I love these threads, how did I miss this one? I'll post some things that might go against your intuition, so I realize that you might not follow them. But, they are something to consider.

1) There is a big risk when people under-save. But there is also a problem with over-saving. Rule #1 of a successful person: pay yourself first. Life isn't about accumulating a mass of money. Life is about enjoying yourself to the fullest. If you undersave, you'll be miserable later on, so lets avoid that. But if you oversave, you never let yourself enjoy life; again lets avoid that. I think you are really running the risk of oversaving. Now is the time of your life when you can most enjoy certain things like a trip. You have two good incomes and no kids, so take your wife off to some exotic isle. Once you come back, then look at your savings/investments plans and post back here. I'm not advocating undersaving, but I want you to save well AND have a great life.

2) Stop the whole life insurance if you can without losing most of your money. There are many reasons to ditch it. (a) You have no need for any kind of life insurance at the moment - no dependants and you each can support yourselves with jobs. So if one of you die, there will be no financial hardship. Thus, you have no need for any form of life insurance. But if you really want it, get term life instead. (b) Whole life insurance is a mediocre life insurance combined with mediocre retirement investment both with excessive fees. Why settle for two poor products? Instead, get a great term life insurance and combine that on your own with a great retirement investment both with low fees. All you are doing now is taking your good money and padding the wallets of your insurance company and its salesforce.

3) Face the math. I assume you are in the 25% tax bracket (if you are not, change the numbers). That means you are really earning 5.25% * (3/4) = 3.94% interest on your savings. Inflation has been running near 3% (actually a bit higher not too long ago). Thus, your friend was correct. You are earning basically nothing at all on your investments. You are barely beating inflation when you could do far better.

4) I feel the old 6-month savings adage is now outdated. Why? We now have so many ways to pay for emergency times without needing liquid cash. Let me just assume your mortgage is at 6% (a reasonable number considering recent rates). Thus, to have $10,000 in savings at 5.25%, your mortgage must be $10,000 larger at 6.00%. You are in effect LOSING 6%-5.25% = 0.75% on all of that savings. So, for each $10,000 you have in savings, you lose $75 a year. If you have $30k in savings, you are getting $1575/year in interest but you are losing $1800/year in interest on your house. Instead of socking away $30k, pay off $30k of your mortgage and open up a $30k HELOC (but don't borrow any from it yet) for your unexpected emergencies. In the very worst case scenario, you can refinance and get that money right back out and probably still be ahead financially.

5) It is noble that you want to pay for your kid's education. But you don't need that money liquid this far in advance and you may be hurting yourself by doing so. Why? If this is for college, you won't need it for 20-30 years, so there is no point in being liquid now. Also, your kids will be ineligible for many scholarships and for federal aid. Heck, they might even be lazy in school and do poorly because "mommy and daddy will pay for college, I don't have to work now". Just a thought. My parents told us early on that we had to save for our own college or earn scholarships. So that is what we did - we as kids put any money we got into savings accounts and we earned scholarships (nearly full ride for all of us).

Basically, focus your money in riskier areas. Yes, it is a risk to get stocks (but historically they return far more than what you are getting now). Yes, it is a risk to drop your whole life insurance (but you can do far better with term life and good stocks separately). Yes, it is a risk to have less liquid money (but you are actually LOSING money as it is and that guaranteed lost money that is even riskier than stocks).

:thumbsup:
 

Demon-Xanth

Lifer
Feb 15, 2000
20,551
2
81
How much is too much:
If you're saving so much you won't buy shoes because they cost money that could be invested, you might want to turn it back a notch.
 

codename47

Member
May 11, 2005
148
0
0
Originally posted by: Demon-Xanth
How much is too much:
If you're saving so much you won't buy shoes because they cost money that could be invested, you might want to turn it back a notch.

currently I'm only eating oatmeal and protein shakes.... so I guess in a way I'm probably saving too much... but I can right now and that is what has me so driven to put away whatever I can....
 

codename47

Member
May 11, 2005
148
0
0
Originally posted by: dullard
I love these threads, how did I miss this one? I'll post some things that might go against your intuition, so I realize that you might not follow them. But, they are something to consider.

1) There is a big risk when people under-save. But there is also a problem with over-saving. Rule #1 of a successful person: pay yourself first. Life isn't about accumulating a mass of money. Life is about enjoying yourself to the fullest. If you undersave, you'll be miserable later on, so lets avoid that. But if you oversave, you never let yourself enjoy life; again lets avoid that. I think you are really running the risk of oversaving. Now is the time of your life when you can most enjoy certain things like a trip. You have two good incomes and no kids, so take your wife off to some exotic isle. Once you come back, then look at your savings/investments plans and post back here. I'm not advocating undersaving, but I want you to save well AND have a great life.

2) Stop the whole life insurance if you can without losing most of your money. There are many reasons to ditch it. (a) You have no need for any kind of life insurance at the moment - no dependants and you each can support yourselves with jobs. So if one of you die, there will be no financial hardship. Thus, you have no need for any form of life insurance. But if you really want it, get term life instead. (b) Whole life insurance is a mediocre life insurance combined with mediocre retirement investment both with excessive fees. Why settle for two poor products? Instead, get a great term life insurance and combine that on your own with a great retirement investment both with low fees. All you are doing now is taking your good money and padding the wallets of your insurance company and its salesforce.

3) Face the math. I assume you are in the 25% tax bracket (if you are not, change the numbers). That means you are really earning 5.25% * (3/4) = 3.94% interest on your savings (even less if you include state taxes). Inflation has been running near 3% (actually a bit higher not too long ago). Thus, your friend was correct. You are earning basically nothing at all on your investments. You are barely beating inflation when you could do far better.

4) I feel the old 6-month savings adage is now outdated. Why? We now have so many ways to pay for emergency times without needing liquid cash. Let me just assume your mortgage is at 6% (a reasonable number considering recent rates). Thus, to have $10,000 in savings at 5.25%, your mortgage must be $10,000 larger at 6.00%. You are in effect LOSING 6%-5.25% = 0.75% on all of that savings. So, for each $10,000 you have in savings, you lose $75 a year. If you have $30k in savings, you are getting $1575/year in interest but you are losing $1800/year in interest on your house. Instead of socking away $30k, pay off $30k of your mortgage and open up a $30k HELOC (but don't borrow any from it yet) for your unexpected emergencies. In the very worst case scenario, you can refinance and get that money right back out and probably still be ahead financially.

5) It is noble that you want to pay for your kid's education. But you don't need that money liquid this far in advance and you may be hurting yourself by doing so. Why? If this is for college, you won't need it for 20-30 years, so there is no point in being liquid now. Also, your kids will be ineligible for many scholarships and for federal aid. Heck, they might even be lazy in school and do poorly because "mommy and daddy will pay for college, I don't have to work now". Just a thought. My parents told us early on that we had to save for our own college or earn scholarships. So that is what we did - we as kids put any money we got into savings accounts and we earned scholarships (nearly full ride for all of us).

Basically, focus your money in riskier areas. Yes, it is a risk to get stocks (but historically they return far more than what you are getting now). Yes, it is a risk to drop your whole life insurance (but you can do far better with term life and good stocks separately). Yes, it is a risk to have less liquid money (but you are actually LOSING money as it is and that guaranteed lost money that is even riskier than stocks).


Great points! I'll probably reread that another time to let it soak in... my mindset sometimes can be closed so seeing things from a different angle is always a good idea...
 

paulxcook

Diamond Member
May 1, 2005
4,277
1
0
dullard, I will need to read that over several times, but thank you for posting. I wish I had a better head for money.
 

jackace

Golden Member
Oct 6, 2004
1,307
0
0
Dullard hits it completely on the head. You have 20+ years you can invest your money. Invest in higher risk items. The stock market is averaging about 8-9% returns since the 1920s (or so my finance teacher tells me). The problem most people have with stocks is they go up and down a lot, but history has shown that over long periods of time (20+ years) you will earn more with your money in well diversified stock portfolios then you will with CDs, and saving accounts. The best way to get into stocks if your worried is index mutual funds. There are different ones available but most are already well diversified and require very little management by you.
 

dullard

Elite Member
May 21, 2001
25,913
4,506
126
I'm glad you all enjoyed my post. I like putting a different light on topics. I struggle myself with #1. I make a great salary, but it is at an unstable job. So I have trouble convincing myself to spend money. When I saw the OP had/wanted a 401K + whole life + savings + education funds + house fund I knew that was just too much.

Do some or all of the suggestions and you'll likely be better off. But be the most careful with the whole life insurance. Many of those programs are set up in a way that if you pull out in the first 5-10 years, you lose almost everything you put in. If that is the case, you probably should keep it, at least for as many years as is needed until you get your money back.