How much GOD loves Us!

[OrByte]

Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield

Originally posted by: OrByte

Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield

Originally posted by: OrByte

Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield

Originally posted by: tealk
I agree with that 100%.....There is ONLY one way......Jesus. As said in my sig.

I like the way that works, i can rape, plunder, pillage, basically do whatever i want as long as i acknowledge Jesus as my saviour. Ok, i'll do that.

Off to eat a baby, will be back, if not, see ya in heaven.

Thats not true. I think you know why....

You go through alot of trouble to act like you know about religion and faith yet you throw this out there.

Was this just a lazy comment? Do you understand why Christians believe that accepting Jesus as your savior is the path to everlasting life?

I know, i know, i have to see the error of my ways before i die, i can do that for five minutes before i die though, there is nothing in christianity that stops me from murdering and killing all my life, in fact, the ONLY thing i cannot do is to say that i reject the holy spirit, then i'm truly lost.

I have to see the errors in my ways though and i have to accept Jesus as my saviour, other than that, i can just go eat another baby.

Naturally this all depends on what kind of denomination of christianity you belong to, if you're an evangelical then all i said is right, if you're a Protestant... well, pretty much same thing, if you're Catholic, you'll need to repent, so save another ten minutes before death after a lifetime of raping and murdering for that.

I think i know what you're implying, but i'll let you say it for yourself and then i'll tell you why that doesn't work for most christians of any church.

No you are wrong. If you were right well then heck even Satan himself would have a free ticket to heaven. We all know that is not the case right?

No he wouldn't and that is the very point, satan rules in hell BECAUSE he would not accept god as his master or as of the new testament, Jesus as his saviour.

Satan WOULD have been forgiven if he had admitted his mistakes and accepted gods superiority, he challenged god and lost.

It would help the discussion if you knew your bible and especially if you refrained from mixing the new testament from the old.

I'll gladly have this theological discussion with you if you really want to but may i suggest that the above (no mixing new and old testament) can be a rule, i know both very well but using one part to refute another means that i can use both and still refer to christianity and if so, you will lose this debate in one post.

Satan believed in God and in Jesus as the Savior.

Here is something that will really blow your mind. Based upon that alone Satan would be in heaven right? I mean, didn't it say somewhere in the bible that all you need to do is believe in Jesus as your savior and you will have eternal life in heaven?

I am sure you are aware of this verse, I THINK it's the whole reason why you reject the bible *edit* faith in GENERAL (As someone mentioned earlier this is a theme that transcends all religions...but that might have to wait for a different post), but you do not understand it's meaning.

Satan did. which is why he is not in heaven.

As for mixing the old testament with the new testament, that isn't really relevant, so I will let you work on sorting that out. But I guess it will make you feel better if you choose to share what you come up with so by all means...

I can't say you are entirely wrong, because you are right in that Satan is in hell. I just think there is too much noise in your reasoning. It is actually very simple.

 

[Darwin333]

A question for the Catholics. Whats the deal with cherry picking certain versus out of the bible to take literally while ignoring versus a few sentences away?

Vague reference to homosexuals = GAYS ARE GONNA BURN IN HELL!
In the very next passage
You should stone disobedient children to death = Naw, we aren't gonna go with you on that one God.

WTF?

 

[DangerAardvark]

Originally posted by: Darwin333
A question for the Catholics. Whats the deal with cherry picking certain versus out of the bible to take literally while ignoring versus a few sentences away?

Vague reference to homosexuals = GAYS ARE GONNA BURN IN HELL!
In the very next passage
You should stone disobedient children to death = Naw, we aren't gonna go with you on that one God.

WTF?

Well that one's easy. They can send whoever they want to an imaginary place in the center of the Earth. They can't just start stoning teenage crack whores to death. And who would want to, really? Where would we get our 3AM $5 BJ's from?

 

[SlitheryDee]

Originally posted by: OrByte

Satan believed in God and in Jesus as the Savior.

Here is something that will really blow your mind. Based upon that alone Satan would be in heaven right? I mean, didn't it say somewhere in the bible that all you need to do is believe in Jesus as your savior and you will have eternal life in heaven?

I am sure you are aware of this verse, I THINK it's the whole reason why you reject the bible *edit* faith in GENERAL (As someone mentioned earlier this is a theme that transcends all religions...but that might have to wait for a different post), but you do not understand it's meaning.

Satan did. which is why he is not in heaven.

I always assumed that it is because Satan is not a man and never was that he cannot be allowed in heaven no matter what he may believe. Even though Satan is labeled "The Adversary" of God he is actually still working FOR God and performing exactly the function that God wants in his divine plan. If we are to assume that there is a God and a Satan then we must assume that Satan is exactly where God wants him to be and is not subject to any of the reprieves that are extended to humanity in terms of salvation.

Satan must have been earmarked as the angel who would serve this function practically from the time of his creation, whenever that was.

 

[Darwin333]

Originally posted by: SlitheryDee

Originally posted by: OrByte

Satan believed in God and in Jesus as the Savior.

Here is something that will really blow your mind. Based upon that alone Satan would be in heaven right? I mean, didn't it say somewhere in the bible that all you need to do is believe in Jesus as your savior and you will have eternal life in heaven?

I am sure you are aware of this verse, I THINK it's the whole reason why you reject the bible *edit* faith in GENERAL (As someone mentioned earlier this is a theme that transcends all religions...but that might have to wait for a different post), but you do not understand it's meaning.

Satan did. which is why he is not in heaven.

I always assumed that it is because Satan is not a man and never was that he cannot be allowed in heaven no matter what he may believe. Even though Satan is labeled "The Adversary" of God he is actually still working FOR God and performing exactly the function that God wants in his divine plan. If we are to assume that there is a God and a Satan then we must assume that Satan is exactly where God wants him to be and is not subject to any of the reprieves that are extended to humanity in terms of salvation.

Satan must have been earmarked as the angel who would serve this function practically from the time of his creation, whenever that was.

There is no spoon.

 

[Ruptga]

Originally posted by: SlitheryDee

Originally posted by: OrByte

Satan believed in God and in Jesus as the Savior.

Here is something that will really blow your mind. Based upon that alone Satan would be in heaven right? I mean, didn't it say somewhere in the bible that all you need to do is believe in Jesus as your savior and you will have eternal life in heaven?

I am sure you are aware of this verse, I THINK it's the whole reason why you reject the bible *edit* faith in GENERAL (As someone mentioned earlier this is a theme that transcends all religions...but that might have to wait for a different post), but you do not understand it's meaning.

Satan did. which is why he is not in heaven.

I always assumed that it is because Satan is not a man and never was that he cannot be allowed in heaven no matter what he may believe. Even though Satan is labeled "The Adversary" of God he is actually still working FOR God and performing exactly the function that God wants in his divine plan. If we are to assume that there is a God and a Satan then we must assume that Satan is exactly where God wants him to be and is not subject to any of the reprieves that are extended to humanity in terms of salvation.

Satan must have been earmarked as the angel who would serve this function practically from the time of his creation, whenever that was.

Well, if you were talking to a Calvinist, they would have to agree, however there haven't been any full-fledged Calvinists in a good hundred years 😉

The idea is that God knows as much as can be known, and gives us the free will, the ability to choose for ourselves what we will do, and He's also able to use terrible circumstances for good. That doesn't mean God made a bad thing happen simply because it was needed to make something good, it just means God figured out how to make good happen in spite of the evil.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

Originally posted by: OrByte

Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield

Originally posted by: OrByte

Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield

Originally posted by: OrByte

Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield

Originally posted by: tealk
I agree with that 100%.....There is ONLY one way......Jesus. As said in my sig.

I like the way that works, i can rape, plunder, pillage, basically do whatever i want as long as i acknowledge Jesus as my saviour. Ok, i'll do that.

Off to eat a baby, will be back, if not, see ya in heaven.

Thats not true. I think you know why....

You go through alot of trouble to act like you know about religion and faith yet you throw this out there.

Was this just a lazy comment? Do you understand why Christians believe that accepting Jesus as your savior is the path to everlasting life?

I know, i know, i have to see the error of my ways before i die, i can do that for five minutes before i die though, there is nothing in christianity that stops me from murdering and killing all my life, in fact, the ONLY thing i cannot do is to say that i reject the holy spirit, then i'm truly lost.

I have to see the errors in my ways though and i have to accept Jesus as my saviour, other than that, i can just go eat another baby.

Naturally this all depends on what kind of denomination of christianity you belong to, if you're an evangelical then all i said is right, if you're a Protestant... well, pretty much same thing, if you're Catholic, you'll need to repent, so save another ten minutes before death after a lifetime of raping and murdering for that.

I think i know what you're implying, but i'll let you say it for yourself and then i'll tell you why that doesn't work for most christians of any church.

No you are wrong. If you were right well then heck even Satan himself would have a free ticket to heaven. We all know that is not the case right?

No he wouldn't and that is the very point, satan rules in hell BECAUSE he would not accept god as his master or as of the new testament, Jesus as his saviour.

Satan WOULD have been forgiven if he had admitted his mistakes and accepted gods superiority, he challenged god and lost.

It would help the discussion if you knew your bible and especially if you refrained from mixing the new testament from the old.

I'll gladly have this theological discussion with you if you really want to but may i suggest that the above (no mixing new and old testament) can be a rule, i know both very well but using one part to refute another means that i can use both and still refer to christianity and if so, you will lose this debate in one post.

Satan believed in God and in Jesus as the Savior.

Here is something that will really blow your mind. Based upon that alone Satan would be in heaven right? I mean, didn't it say somewhere in the bible that all you need to do is believe in Jesus as your savior and you will have eternal life in heaven?

I am sure you are aware of this verse, I THINK it's the whole reason why you reject the bible *edit* faith in GENERAL (As someone mentioned earlier this is a theme that transcends all religions...but that might have to wait for a different post), but you do not understand it's meaning.

Satan did. which is why he is not in heaven.

As for mixing the old testament with the new testament, that isn't really relevant, so I will let you work on sorting that out. But I guess it will make you feel better if you choose to share what you come up with so by all means...

I can't say you are entirely wrong, because you are right in that Satan is in hell. I just think there is too much noise in your reasoning. It is actually very simple.

No, the reason Satan is not in heaven is because he challenged gods authority AND LOST.

Read your bible and get back to me.

There, one post, you're wrong.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

Originally posted by: NeuroSynapsis

Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield

Originally posted by: OrByte

Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield

Originally posted by: OrByte

Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield

Originally posted by: tealk
I agree with that 100%.....There is ONLY one way......Jesus. As said in my sig.

I like the way that works, i can rape, plunder, pillage, basically do whatever i want as long as i acknowledge Jesus as my saviour. Ok, i'll do that.

Off to eat a baby, will be back, if not, see ya in heaven.

Thats not true. I think you know why....

You go through alot of trouble to act like you know about religion and faith yet you throw this out there.

Was this just a lazy comment? Do you understand why Christians believe that accepting Jesus as your savior is the path to everlasting life?

I know, i know, i have to see the error of my ways before i die, i can do that for five minutes before i die though, there is nothing in christianity that stops me from murdering and killing all my life, in fact, the ONLY thing i cannot do is to say that i reject the holy spirit, then i'm truly lost.

I have to see the errors in my ways though and i have to accept Jesus as my saviour, other than that, i can just go eat another baby.

Naturally this all depends on what kind of denomination of christianity you belong to, if you're an evangelical then all i said is right, if you're a Protestant... well, pretty much same thing, if you're Catholic, you'll need to repent, so save another ten minutes before death after a lifetime of raping and murdering for that.

I think i know what you're implying, but i'll let you say it for yourself and then i'll tell you why that doesn't work for most christians of any church.

No you are wrong. If you were right well then heck even Satan himself would have a free ticket to heaven. We all know that is not the case right?

No he wouldn't and that is the very point, satan rules in hell BECAUSE he would not accept god as his master or as of the new testament, Jesus as his saviour.

Satan WOULD have been forgiven if he had admitted his mistakes and accepted gods superiority, he challenged god and lost.

It would help the discussion if you knew your bible and especially if you refrained from mixing the new testament from the old.

I'll gladly have this theological discussion with you if you really want to but may i suggest that the above (no mixing new and old testament) can be a rule, i know both very well but using one part to refute another means that i can use both and still refer to christianity and if so, you will lose this debate in one post.

for shits and giggles, can you do said single post?

Just did. 😉

 

[GagHalfrunt]

Originally posted by: OrByte

Originally posted by: GagHalfrunt

Originally posted by: OrByte

Was this just a lazy comment? Do you understand why Christians believe that accepting Jesus as your savior is the path to everlasting life?

Newsflash Zippy: EVERY religion ever invented had as it's tenet that accepting their great cosmic muffin was the path to everlasting life. Take some comparative theology courses, the promise of life after death is the one thing that all religions have in common. Well, that and a supposedly omnipotent god who never really seems to accomplish anything. Oh yeah, and that omnipotent god needs your money. That's it, those three things are common to all religions.

so the answer from you is that you do not understand.

right?

No, I understand perfectly. You have no idea about religions. You got suckered into believing what every other wannabeliever got suckered into believing. EVERY single person that ever believed in ANY religion throughout history believed that it was their path to eternal life. No worries, you're not any dumber to those who sacrificed an ox to their god so he would grant them eternal life. You're not any dumber than those who danced around a fire and chanted to their god so he would grant them eternal life. You're not any dumber than those who saw lightning and thought god was angry, so they fell on their faces and peed themselves in fear of not getting eternal life. The sad part is that you're not any smarter than them either. You'd think mankind might have gotten a little smarter in 100,000 years of worshipping non-existent gods who don't do anything to help. At least some of us have.

You just don't get it. Your foolish belief in your great god of the pedophiles is exactly the same as everyone who prayed to Zeus or Apsu or the great moon spirit. Your god is going to wind up on the scrapheap of time just like theirs did. When you walk through an airport and see Hare Krishnas singing and chanting to their god don't you laugh at them? When you see some morons castrate themselves to take a ride on a comet don't you laugh at them? When you think of Scientologists who pay for their faith and worship an alien with atom bombs and spaceships don't you laugh at them? That's why we're laughing at you pal. Your imaginary god is just as silly as theirs. At least theirs don't molest little kids.

 

[TallBill]

Originally posted by: GagHalfrunt

No, I understand perfectly. You have no idea about religions. You got suckered into believing what every other wannabeliever got suckered into believing. EVERY single person that ever believed in ANY religion throughout history believed that it was their path to eternal life. No worries, you're not any dumber to those who sacrificed an ox to their god so he would grant them eternal life. You're not any dumber than those who danced around a fire and chanted to their god so he would grant them eternal life. You're not any dumber than those who saw lightning and thought god was angry, so they fell on their faces and peed themselves in fear of not getting eternal life. The sad part is that you're not any smarter than them either. You'd think mankind might have gotten a little smarter in 100,000 years of worshipping non-existent gods who don't do anything to help. At least some of us have.

You just don't get it. Your foolish belief in your great god of the pedophiles is exactly the same as everyone who prayed to Zeus or Apsu or the great moon spirit. Your god is going to wind up on the scrapheap of time just like theirs did. When you walk through an airport and see Hare Krishnas singing and chanting to their god don't you laugh at them? When you see some morons castrate themselves to take a ride on a comet don't you laugh at them? When you think of Scientologists who pay for their faith and worship an alien with atom bombs and spaceships don't you laugh at them? That's why we're laughing at you pal. Your imaginary god is just as silly as theirs. At least theirs don't molest little kids.

Wow, my exact sentiments x1000.

 

[NikolaeVarius]

Originally posted by: GagHalfrunt

No, I understand perfectly. You have no idea about religions. You got suckered into believing what every other wannabeliever got suckered into believing. EVERY single person that ever believed in ANY religion throughout history believed that it was their path to eternal life. No worries, you're not any dumber to those who sacrificed an ox to their god so he would grant them eternal life. You're not any dumber than those who danced around a fire and chanted to their god so he would grant them eternal life. You're not any dumber than those who saw lightning and thought god was angry, so they fell on their faces and peed themselves in fear of not getting eternal life. The sad part is that you're not any smarter than them either. You'd think mankind might have gotten a little smarter in 100,000 years of worshipping non-existent gods who don't do anything to help. At least some of us have.

You just don't get it. Your foolish belief in your great god of the pedophiles is exactly the same as everyone who prayed to Zeus or Apsu or the great moon spirit. Your god is going to wind up on the scrapheap of time just like theirs did. When you walk through an airport and see Hare Krishnas singing and chanting to their god don't you laugh at them? When you see some morons castrate themselves to take a ride on a comet don't you laugh at them? When you think of Scientologists who pay for their faith and worship an alien with atom bombs and spaceships don't you laugh at them? That's why we're laughing at you pal. Your imaginary god is just as silly as theirs. At least theirs don't molest little kids.

If you ran for President. I would vote for you

 

[SlitheryDee]

Originally posted by: ADDAvenger

Originally posted by: SlitheryDee

I always assumed that it is because Satan is not a man and never was that he cannot be allowed in heaven no matter what he may believe. Even though Satan is labeled "The Adversary" of God he is actually still working FOR God and performing exactly the function that God wants in his divine plan. If we are to assume that there is a God and a Satan then we must assume that Satan is exactly where God wants him to be and is not subject to any of the reprieves that are extended to humanity in terms of salvation.

Satan must have been earmarked as the angel who would serve this function practically from the time of his creation, whenever that was.

Well, if you were talking to a Calvinist, they would have to agree, however there haven't been any full-fledged Calvinists in a good hundred years 😉

The idea is that God knows as much as can be known, and gives us the free will, the ability to choose for ourselves what we will do, and He's also able to use terrible circumstances for good. That doesn't mean God made a bad thing happen simply because it was needed to make something good, it just means God figured out how to make good happen in spite of the evil.

If I were religious I think that I would subscribe to Calvinism or perhaps something contemporary like Primitive Baptist before any other denomination. Predestination is inescapable in the face of an omniscient God. The idea of free will or its effects being outside of God's knowledge and power seems like so much wishful thinking. Believing that you cannot have so much as one original thought or action outside of what God already knows will happen in your life is definitely depressing on some level, but if it's true then it will be true no matter much mental acrobatics you perform to try and get around it.

Also, bad things don't just "happen" from this perspective. If I were truly religious I would recognize that God may indeed make some very bad things happen if that should suit his purposes. I would try and see the good that comes from these things but I would not allow it to worry me if I couldn't find anything. I would trust that it must for some good purpose because God did it, and he is in control.

But I'm not religious, and my inability to make the leaps of logic that I described above is what makes me so. Just as you mentioned that Calvinism has largely died out these days, so have many other denominations who thought that they knew God and what he wanted from humanity. The denominations that have lasted through the ages have not done so unchanged.

The catholic church would be practically unrecognizable to someone from the 17th century. It may as well have been usurped by some other christian sect, so far has it come from its beginnings. Though humanity has changed massively in its views of God, God himself, if he exists, most likely hasn't changed at all. The whole mass of johnny-come-lately christian denominations we have today think that they know God better than those who have passed out of popularity without one whit more evidence of God's intentions other than what some or other wild-haired zealot had in a fevered dream.

My point is that you have no better reason for believing your free will mumbo-jumbo than Calvin had for believing his predestination mumbo-jumbo. There have been no new revelations during the intervening time. IMO the only difference between you is that Calvin believed what he thought must be true, despite how depressing it was, and you believe what you think must be true and is also not too depressing.

 

[OrByte]

Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield

Originally posted by: OrByte

Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield

Originally posted by: OrByte

Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield

Originally posted by: OrByte

Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield

Originally posted by: tealk
I agree with that 100%.....There is ONLY one way......Jesus. As said in my sig.

I like the way that works, i can rape, plunder, pillage, basically do whatever i want as long as i acknowledge Jesus as my saviour. Ok, i'll do that.

Off to eat a baby, will be back, if not, see ya in heaven.

Thats not true. I think you know why....

You go through alot of trouble to act like you know about religion and faith yet you throw this out there.

Was this just a lazy comment? Do you understand why Christians believe that accepting Jesus as your savior is the path to everlasting life?

I know, i know, i have to see the error of my ways before i die, i can do that for five minutes before i die though, there is nothing in christianity that stops me from murdering and killing all my life, in fact, the ONLY thing i cannot do is to say that i reject the holy spirit, then i'm truly lost.

I have to see the errors in my ways though and i have to accept Jesus as my saviour, other than that, i can just go eat another baby.

Naturally this all depends on what kind of denomination of christianity you belong to, if you're an evangelical then all i said is right, if you're a Protestant... well, pretty much same thing, if you're Catholic, you'll need to repent, so save another ten minutes before death after a lifetime of raping and murdering for that.

I think i know what you're implying, but i'll let you say it for yourself and then i'll tell you why that doesn't work for most christians of any church.

No you are wrong. If you were right well then heck even Satan himself would have a free ticket to heaven. We all know that is not the case right?

No he wouldn't and that is the very point, satan rules in hell BECAUSE he would not accept god as his master or as of the new testament, Jesus as his saviour.

Satan WOULD have been forgiven if he had admitted his mistakes and accepted gods superiority, he challenged god and lost.

It would help the discussion if you knew your bible and especially if you refrained from mixing the new testament from the old.

I'll gladly have this theological discussion with you if you really want to but may i suggest that the above (no mixing new and old testament) can be a rule, i know both very well but using one part to refute another means that i can use both and still refer to christianity and if so, you will lose this debate in one post.

Satan believed in God and in Jesus as the Savior.

Here is something that will really blow your mind. Based upon that alone Satan would be in heaven right? I mean, didn't it say somewhere in the bible that all you need to do is believe in Jesus as your savior and you will have eternal life in heaven?

I am sure you are aware of this verse, I THINK it's the whole reason why you reject the bible *edit* faith in GENERAL (As someone mentioned earlier this is a theme that transcends all religions...but that might have to wait for a different post), but you do not understand it's meaning.

Satan did. which is why he is not in heaven.

As for mixing the old testament with the new testament, that isn't really relevant, so I will let you work on sorting that out. But I guess it will make you feel better if you choose to share what you come up with so by all means...

I can't say you are entirely wrong, because you are right in that Satan is in hell. I just think there is too much noise in your reasoning. It is actually very simple.

No, the reason Satan is not in heaven is because he challenged gods authority AND LOST.

Read your bible and get back to me.

There, one post, you're wrong.

Actually Satan continues to challenge God.

Unless you think otherwise

How has Satan lost that battle? is there no evil still in this world?

 

[OrByte]

Originally posted by: GagHalfrunt

Originally posted by: OrByte

Originally posted by: GagHalfrunt

Originally posted by: OrByte

Was this just a lazy comment? Do you understand why Christians believe that accepting Jesus as your savior is the path to everlasting life?

Newsflash Zippy: EVERY religion ever invented had as it's tenet that accepting their great cosmic muffin was the path to everlasting life. Take some comparative theology courses, the promise of life after death is the one thing that all religions have in common. Well, that and a supposedly omnipotent god who never really seems to accomplish anything. Oh yeah, and that omnipotent god needs your money. That's it, those three things are common to all religions.

so the answer from you is that you do not understand.

right?

No, I understand perfectly. You have no idea about religions. You got suckered into believing what every other wannabeliever got suckered into believing. EVERY single person that ever believed in ANY religion throughout history believed that it was their path to eternal life. No worries, you're not any dumber to those who sacrificed an ox to their god so he would grant them eternal life. You're not any dumber than those who danced around a fire and chanted to their god so he would grant them eternal life. You're not any dumber than those who saw lightning and thought god was angry, so they fell on their faces and peed themselves in fear of not getting eternal life. The sad part is that you're not any smarter than them either. You'd think mankind might have gotten a little smarter in 100,000 years of worshipping non-existent gods who don't do anything to help. At least some of us have.

You just don't get it. Your foolish belief in your great god of the pedophiles is exactly the same as everyone who prayed to Zeus or Apsu or the great moon spirit. Your god is going to wind up on the scrapheap of time just like theirs did. When you walk through an airport and see Hare Krishnas singing and chanting to their god don't you laugh at them? When you see some morons castrate themselves to take a ride on a comet don't you laugh at them? When you think of Scientologists who pay for their faith and worship an alien with atom bombs and spaceships don't you laugh at them? That's why we're laughing at you pal. Your imaginary god is just as silly as theirs. At least theirs don't molest little kids.

No I don't laugh at anyone, neither do I pity or condemn or anything like that. Maybe its just me but as screwy as those examples you illustrate seem to be, at least they are trying for something more to believe in and to love.

Every one of those example of people are just trying to find their way.

I guess I should be happy that you found your way...do you feel the same? Do you feel good about yourself that you think you have it all figured out?

You have it all figured out in your head. But not in your heart.

 

[Ruptga]

Originally posted by: SlitheryDee

If I were religious I think that I would subscribe to Calvinism or perhaps something contemporary like Primitive Baptist before any other denomination. Predestination is inescapable in the face of an omniscient God. The idea of free will or its effects being outside of God's knowledge and power seems like so much wishful thinking. Believing that you cannot have so much as one original thought or action outside of what God already knows will happen in your life is definitely depressing on some level, but if it's true then it will be true no matter much mental acrobatics you perform to try and get around it.

Also, bad things don't just "happen" from this perspective. If I were truly religious I would recognize that God may indeed make some very bad things happen if that should suit his purposes. I would try and see the good that comes from these things but I would not allow it to worry me if I couldn't find anything. I would trust that it must for some good purpose because God did it, and he is in control.

But I'm not religious, and my inability to make the leaps of logic that I described above is what makes me so. Just as you mentioned that Calvinism has largely died out these days, so have many other denominations who thought that they knew God and what he wanted from humanity. The denominations that have lasted through the ages have not done so unchanged.

The catholic church would be practically unrecognizable to someone from the 17th century. It may as well have been usurped by some other christian sect, so far has it come from its beginnings. Though humanity has changed massively in its views of God, God himself, if he exists, most likely hasn't changed at all. The whole mass of johnny-come-lately christian denominations we have today think that they know God better than those who have passed out of popularity without one whit more evidence of God's intentions other than what some or other wild-haired zealot had in a fevered dream.

My point is that you have no better reason for believing your free will mumbo-jumbo than Calvin had for believing his predestination mumbo-jumbo. There have been no new revelations during the intervening time. IMO the only difference between you is that Calvin believed what he thought must be true, despite how depressing it was, and you believe what you think must be true and is also not too depressing.

I believe what I think must be true and is also not too depressing because I don't figure God to be a depressing kind of guy 😉

It is true that Calvinism as a system makes a lot more sense inside of itself than Arminianism does inside of itself. But, I find the conclusions that Calvinism leads me to don't fit reality as well as the conclusions that Arminianism leads me to. Calvinism is the better system, it makes a lot more sense, it just doesn't fit what I see in real life.

 

[OREOSpeedwagon]

Powerful video, thanks 🙂

 

[rise]

Originally posted by: Darwin333

Originally posted by: rise

Originally posted by: DangerAardvark

Originally posted by: ADDAvenger
I think this is worth repeating

Originally posted by: Maleficus
It's good to see the tolerant left out in force.

Learn difference between tolerance and pandering. Sorry, but some of us don't feel the need to pander to the erroneous beliefs of others. But keep playing that victim card, it seems to be working for you.

seems you have no idea of what tolerance is, otherwise you would have passed on this thread. but it's good to see tolerant people, such as yourself, declaring other's beliefs "erroneous".

dark days indeed.

Oh the irony.

After thousands of years of religions being violently intolerant of people not of their religion, from forcing people to convert at the tip of a sword to burning so call heretics and witches, the religious folks are now calling people who verbally oppose religion with logic and ration "intolerant".

And you have the nerve to say these are the "dark days".

Get back to me when atheists start burning people at the stake, hindering science, or threatening people with death if the don't give up their religious beliefs.

i believe in God, not what others tell me to believe about God. can you see the distinction? people who can't fight in the name of God.

i don't deny, mock or dismiss anyone because they are agnostic, atheist or a church-goer. thats what i meant.

 

[Adn4n]

Originally posted by: McGyver
"The Christian religion is a parody on the worship of the Sun, in which they put a man whom they call Christ, in the place of the Sun, and pay him the same adoration which was originally paid to the Sun."

- Thomas Paine

Thanks for typing it before I did.

 

[DangerAardvark]

Originally posted by: rise

Originally posted by: Darwin333

Originally posted by: rise

Originally posted by: DangerAardvark

Originally posted by: ADDAvenger
I think this is worth repeating

Originally posted by: Maleficus
It's good to see the tolerant left out in force.

Learn difference between tolerance and pandering. Sorry, but some of us don't feel the need to pander to the erroneous beliefs of others. But keep playing that victim card, it seems to be working for you.

seems you have no idea of what tolerance is, otherwise you would have passed on this thread. but it's good to see tolerant people, such as yourself, declaring other's beliefs "erroneous".

dark days indeed.

Oh the irony.

After thousands of years of religions being violently intolerant of people not of their religion, from forcing people to convert at the tip of a sword to burning so call heretics and witches, the religious folks are now calling people who verbally oppose religion with logic and ration "intolerant".

And you have the nerve to say these are the "dark days".

Get back to me when atheists start burning people at the stake, hindering science, or threatening people with death if the don't give up their religious beliefs.

i believe in God, not what others tell me to believe about God. can you see the distinction? people who couldn't fought in the name of God.

i don't deny, mock or dismiss anyone who is agnostic, atheist or a church-goer. thats what i meant.

Why not? It's your right. You see everything anyone says comes with an implied prefix: "In my opinion".

You say you don't deny, mock or dismiss any belief. However, having any belief at all comes necessarily with dismissing contrary beliefs. So are you saying you're a nihilist?

But "belief" is a misleading word. I don't have to "believe" anything to be an atheist. Belief is for theists. All I have to do is open my eyes and use my brain.

 

[rise]

i can do, say, believe, object to anything i want. intolerant is the word i think you still need work on.

 

[DangerAardvark]

Originally posted by: rise
i can do, say, believe, object to anything i want. intolerant is the word i think you still need work on.

Clearly at some point in this thread you have died and your continued posts are nothing but reflex spasms. Dead posting FTL.

 

[rise]

Originally posted by: DangerAardvark

Originally posted by: rise
i can do, say, believe, object to anything i want. intolerant is the word i think you still need work on.

Clearly at some point in this thread you have died and your continued posts are nothing but reflex spasms. Dead posting FTL.

beautiful, that means ban stick immunity for me. 🙂

 

[zach0624]

Why is it that some christians go out and make god tube and make all of us other christians look stupid. I guess deep down they were trying to do the right thing but... godtube has got to be on of the dumbest things ever. Please don't flame me for this but this is one of the reasons why I don't go to church, not because I'm not religious but because of ways some christians act, say one thing do another and also why would as a christian would you need to watch this, if you have doubts read and interpret the bible yourself don't get someone else's view of what the bible is supposed to mean, develop your own(protestant in me) don't follow blindly what the church or religous leaders preach, and please come up with a better way of preaching christianity.

 

[Inspector Jihad]

jesus, please relieve my toofache...kthxbai

 

[Skacer]

Originally posted by: evolvedbullet
Did you ever know that hell doesn't exist? There was no such word when the bible was being made and when the holy man was walking. When priests came into the scene, they invented hell to make you straight. Rule out of fear, my god what the hell! lol

Hell is/was a Jewish fairy tale. Like Americans have the boogie man. They had large fire pits where they burned their garbage and they would point to that and tell kids they were going there. That is how they got them to behave. The imagery was effective and made it's way into the religion.

Originally posted by: GagHalfrunt
I went to Catholic schools from first grade through graduating high school. Other than one nun I had for science in 7th grade the science teachers taught actual science. This was in the northeast though. I imagine things might be different in the south and the midwest.

I did too, Nashua Catholic and Bishop Guertin. You?

Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield
I know, i know, i have to see the error of my ways before i die, i can do that for five minutes before i die though, there is nothing in christianity that stops me from murdering and killing all my life, in fact, the ONLY thing i cannot do is to say that i reject the holy spirit, then i'm truly lost.

If you've led a life of hate, then you are going to have a tough time proving you are truly sorry for your sins before you die. It isn't about just saying sorry, it is about actually believing it. Someone who could eat babies all day is going to have a tough time really feeling sorry about things by that point. And if they can't truly convince themselves, they won't get any breaks in heaven.