How much does it cost? Sorry, that's classified.

[Brigandier]

What's the deal with classified budgets?

The DEA, ATF, and FBI can work with public budgets, but the CIA and NSA cannot?

How many here would support declassified budgets? Don't the people have a right to know how their money is spent?

 

[Ryan]

What's the deal with classified budgets?

The DEA, ATF, and FBI can work with public budgets, but the CIA and NSA cannot?

How many here would support declassified budgets? Don't the people have a right to know how their money is spent?

You do realize that declassifying classified budgets...puts in jeopardy the very fact that projects are classified...right? As someone who works in military procurement, there are some things that don't need to see the light of day. It has nothing to do with American's having the right to know how their money is spent, and everything to do with the most basic tenants of national security.

 

[First]

Huh? Why not declassify the president's national security expenditures. I'm sure there's nothing there bad people could possibly mine for data.

Derrrrrrr.

 

[Brigandier]

You do realize that declassifying classified budgets...puts in jeopardy the very fact that projects are classified...right?

Hell - in the military, if a project is classified, we are not required to publicly report it at all.

The FBI, DEA, ATF don't do classified things with declassified monies? CIA and NSA can do what they want in secret, call it "research and development," no reasons for entire budgets to be classified.

 

[chucky2]

Why would you ever want CIA or NSA budgets declassified? What possible good could come of that? (and I'd almost throw some DEA in there as well)

Chuck

 

[Ryan]

The FBI, DEA, ATF don't do classified things with declassified monies? CIA and NSA can do what they want in secret, call it "research and development," no reasons for entire budgets to be classified.

The CIA and NSA are fundamentally different departments than the other three. Almost everything they do falls under a classified purview. That is not necessarily the same case with the FBI, DEA, and ATF.

That said - don't be fooled into thinking that everything each agency does comes from their own pot of money. Agencies share funding streams all the time. There is a great amount of information that never ends up on a public balance sheet.

 

[Brigandier]

Why would you ever want CIA or NSA budgets declassified? What possible good could come of that? (and I'd almost throw some DEA in there as well)

Chuck

Because we pay for it, as I said, details need not be given, but a general accounting should be called for.

 

[Ryan]

Because we pay for it, as I said, details need not be given, but a general accounting should be called for.

I don't think you realize how much information simple accounting can give away.

 

[Brigandier]

I don't think you realize how much information simple accounting can give away.

I don't think you understand how tyrannically money can be misspent in shadow organizations.

Edit: The NSA was created because of the CIA's mandate not to spy domestically, do you really want the NSA to be able to spend whatever it wants secretly? If it was just the CIA I could handle it.

 

[Juror No. 8]

LOL, how convenient. Whenever you need to lie to the people, assassinate a foreign leader, start a war, conduct an illegal operation, or simply engage in a little extracurricular corruption, all you have to do is hide the information from the public on the grounds that it is a matter of "national security". If anyone dares to keep asking questions, just accuse them of "compromising America's security" or being "unpatriotic".

Hermann Goring would be proud of how easily the American people have been turned into compliant sheep.

 

[bononos]

Because we pay for it, as I said, details need not be given, but a general accounting should be called for.

I'm quite sure that congress has a right to audit the black budget but so far it hasn't.

 

[bfdd]

Declassified budgets should not exist, they only exist because the American people are idiots who allow themselves to be stolen from while they blissfully tune out listening to their iTunes.

 

[chucky2]

Because we pay for it, as I said, details need not be given, but a general accounting should be called for.

We pay for it, Yes. But we also elect people to oversee it and make sure everything is on the up and up.

 

[Juror No. 8]

We pay for it, Yes. But we also elect people to oversee it and make sure everything is on the up and up.

You mean, we elect people based on the information provided to us by the big corporate media, which is owned and controlled by rich people. Through their coverage and the information they decide to share, they essentially tell you who to vote for.

So tell me, how are you going to pick the candidate who will make sure "everything is on the up and up" when everything you know about the candidates is controlled?

 

[Pray To Jesus]

You mean, we elect people based on the information provided to us by the big corporate media, which is owned and controlled by rich people. Through their coverage and the information they decide to share, they essentially tell you who to vote for.

So tell me, how are you going to pick the candidate who will make sure "everything is on the up and up" when everything you know about the candidates is controlled?

So ultimately the people is to blame. Hue

 

[Juror No. 8]

So ultimately the people is to blame. Hue

Placing blame where it belongs is beside the point. The important thing is understanding how the system has been set up to deceive and exploit you in perpetuity by the ruling class who long ago figured out how to farm human beings.

 

[Rainsford]

I don't think you understand how tyrannically money can be misspent in shadow organizations.

And what problem would be solved by disclosing a budget in vague enough terms to preserve security? Is it any harder to tyrannically spend money in a shadow organization if you can "disclose" it without saying what you're spending it on?

Edit: The NSA was created because of the CIA's mandate not to spy domestically, do you really want the NSA to be able to spend whatever it wants secretly? If it was just the CIA I could handle it.

No, it really wasn't. The NSA has the same mandate.

 

[SilthDraeth]

The OP does have a point in a way, there is no reason why it can't be declassified that 5 billion is spent on the NSA each year. There is no reason to have that broken down. But just knowing the total would appease the OP.

However, if you think knowing about something will somehow change it, or hold them accountable for the funds, etc, you are mistaken.

Also, wouldn't it be possible to theoretically figure out how much is spend between the classifieds by taking how much is spent across the total budget and subtracted all the declassified budgets from the total leaving you with a leftover amount? Or is this accounted for and the classified budgets are never calculated in any shape or form?

 

[chucky2]

You mean, we elect people based on the information provided to us by the big corporate media, which is owned and controlled by rich people. Through their coverage and the information they decide to share, they essentially tell you who to vote for.

So tell me, how are you going to pick the candidate who will make sure "everything is on the up and up" when everything you know about the candidates is controlled?

You won't. At least the chances you'd have to pick a Pol who isn't dirty and/or unqualified is about zero. For gods sake, the US elected someone wholefully unqualified to be POTUS last time around, and this time around they'll elect him again because his primary allowed competitor is the same as he is now, with the same belief system as his SecState...that is, that of a wet noodle. I feel sorry for Russia sometimes...it must suck being their Leadership and trying to figure out why they can't top us while looking at our Politicians. Then again, when your country is a bunch of alcoholics, you begin to have problems...

But, even given all that, the budgets for these entities should be classified, and be reviewed in a classified manner. There are Senators and Congressmen for that, with the proper clearances.

Chuck

 

[Juror No. 8]

You won't. At least the chances you'd have to pick a Pol who isn't dirty and/or unqualified is about zero. For gods sake, the US elected someone wholefully unqualified to be POTUS last time around, and this time around they'll elect him again because his primary allowed competitor is the same as he is now, with the same belief system as his SecState...that is, that of a wet noodle. I feel sorry for Russia sometimes...it must suck being their Leadership and trying to figure out why they can't top us while looking at our Politicians. Then again, when your country is a bunch of alcoholics, you begin to have problems...

But, even given all that, the budgets for these entities should be classified, and be reviewed in a classified manner. There are Senators and Congressmen for that, with the proper clearances.

Chuck

I'm not sure I understand your response. On one hand, it appears that you agree with me, that the whole election process is corrupt and that money and media determines who our "leaders" are. On the other hand, you seem to be content with allowing these bought-and-paid-for politicians to reign over the American people with a non-transparent government.

"Yeah, the politicians are all corrupt, but we still need them to classify what they are doing with our money."

LOL.

 

[chucky2]

It's not that I'm content, it's that there's no other acceptable, with the priority being national security, solution.

What needs to happen is change how we vote in the US, and then have the US stop voting in Pols because they like their smile, how they talk, their skin color, their religion, that they feel guilty, that they're influenced by talking heads on TV, etc. etc. Opening up national security interests to the public though, is not a good idea. Ever.

I'm OK with a simple line item for total budget, but that's as far as I'd go. You simply don't have the need to know (even though you're paying for it).

Chuck

 

[woolfe9999]

The vast majority of money the government spends, we get to know about directly. For the stuff that is classified, there are Congressional committees which meet behind closed doors to review it. These are our elected representatives. I think on balance this is a workable balancing of the need for transparency versus the need to protect national security.

 

[bfdd]

btw I totally meant classified budgets, not declassified budgets lols

 

[Nemesis 1]

So ultimately the people is to blame. Hue

The only real power gooberments have is what the masses allow, So yes its our fault . This thing doesn't work like slavery(Labor). Were you can say you didn't take part . You pay taxes . Doing so makes you guilty of what ever bad comes from those taxes . You are not innocent of murder . None of us are .

 

[Juror No. 8]

You pay taxes . Doing so makes you guilty of what ever bad comes from those taxes . You are not innocent of murder . None of us are .

This is false. The government forces me to pay taxes. If I don't, they will eventually send armed thugs to my door to kidnap me. If I rightfully resist, they will execute me on the spot. I'm no more responsible for what they do with my money after they steal it than am if a carjacker takes my car at gunpoint and then uses it to run over some kids playing in the street.

Democracy is a hoax. It always has been. It's the greatest hoax in the history of mankind.