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How much do you think US citizens should earn
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Dissipate
Diamond Member
Civil servant (police and fire men) - $0 (they should volunteer)
K-12 teacher - $0 (they should volunteer)
CEO of a sucessful company - Whatever the market is willing to pay them
US autoworker- Whatever the market is willing to pay them
US congressman - (-$100,000) (that's negative $100,000) a year. If they tax us, we should tax them.
Domestic worker - Whatever the market is willing to pay them
and
you (provide your profession) - Whatever the market is willing to pay me
K-12 teacher - $0 (they should volunteer)
CEO of a sucessful company - Whatever the market is willing to pay them
US autoworker- Whatever the market is willing to pay them
US congressman - (-$100,000) (that's negative $100,000) a year. If they tax us, we should tax them.
Domestic worker - Whatever the market is willing to pay them
and
you (provide your profession) - Whatever the market is willing to pay me
theeedude
Lifer
For average US location, not too cheap not too expensive:
Civil servant (police and fire men) 30-70K + pension (depending on education, experience, and responsibilities)
K-12 teacher 30-70K + pension(depending on major, experience, and education)
CEO of a sucessful company $1M + bonus not to exceed $5M, depending on company performance.
US autoworker $30-60K (for manufacturing, higher for engineers)
US congressman $100K
Domestic worker $10/hr
and
you (provide your profession)[/quote]
Electrical engineer 60 - 150K (depending on education, responsibilities, experience, patents, etc)
ideally...whatever they are worth...I think its really hard to put a specific number on any job.
I do want to chime in though for teachers:
I would want teachers to make a base of 60K for kindergarten...BAES - and highschool easily up to 150-200k. Of course, that means with this high salary you attract a lot of talented people~ and teaching high school with such a high salary would require a BS at minimum...most likely masters and PhDs~
If we are talking about QUALITY teachers who really PREPARE students and TEACH them and ensure they are LEARNING such that they understand concepts and gain knowledge rather than "plug and chug" or simply a LACK of teaching, then it is worth it~ It doesn't matter if that teaching is going through vector calculus, or that teacher is going through intense literature and readings...it is all important
The sad part is that education today seems to be a mix and mash of problems from all fronts: crappy administrators, crappy teachers, crappy rules, stupid laws... Everyone wants to blame one thing, but no one wants to accept the responsiblity
Administrators at my high school used their role as a jumping pad to other "higher status jobs" creating a massive problem because you need a dedicated principle for the school...at the same time they nearly fired the only Calc BC teacher because she didn't have her credentials finished (she was finishing up a masters in math though...) while the algebra professor who spent literally 10 minutes teaching and then simple passed out ridiculous work sheets was relaxing making 70K a year during a period in which the school was exhibiting a budget crunch.
Realistically, money plays a role - if we want to attract some of the brightest to teach (Of course these guys would need to have to learn to teach...i can speak of plenty of insanely smart professors I've had "teach" me who couldn't explain how to tie a shoe lace) we need to prepare to pay...
I want to teach - but later in life after I make money doing things I love.I see the utility in teaching, but if you want to attract me and my friends...atleast from my perspective, teaching some kind of "advanced" math or science for 60K a year is laughable - the potential in industry is so much higher...
Chinese has a saying:
??????
"you get what you pay for"...for those saying 25-60K for teachers
well, it isn't THE problem our public education system sucks, but its definitely a part of the problem
I do want to chime in though for teachers:
I would want teachers to make a base of 60K for kindergarten...BAES - and highschool easily up to 150-200k. Of course, that means with this high salary you attract a lot of talented people~ and teaching high school with such a high salary would require a BS at minimum...most likely masters and PhDs~
If we are talking about QUALITY teachers who really PREPARE students and TEACH them and ensure they are LEARNING such that they understand concepts and gain knowledge rather than "plug and chug" or simply a LACK of teaching, then it is worth it~ It doesn't matter if that teaching is going through vector calculus, or that teacher is going through intense literature and readings...it is all important
The sad part is that education today seems to be a mix and mash of problems from all fronts: crappy administrators, crappy teachers, crappy rules, stupid laws... Everyone wants to blame one thing, but no one wants to accept the responsiblity
Administrators at my high school used their role as a jumping pad to other "higher status jobs" creating a massive problem because you need a dedicated principle for the school...at the same time they nearly fired the only Calc BC teacher because she didn't have her credentials finished (she was finishing up a masters in math though...) while the algebra professor who spent literally 10 minutes teaching and then simple passed out ridiculous work sheets was relaxing making 70K a year during a period in which the school was exhibiting a budget crunch.
Realistically, money plays a role - if we want to attract some of the brightest to teach (Of course these guys would need to have to learn to teach...i can speak of plenty of insanely smart professors I've had "teach" me who couldn't explain how to tie a shoe lace) we need to prepare to pay...
I want to teach - but later in life after I make money doing things I love.I see the utility in teaching, but if you want to attract me and my friends...atleast from my perspective, teaching some kind of "advanced" math or science for 60K a year is laughable - the potential in industry is so much higher...
Chinese has a saying:
??????
"you get what you pay for"...for those saying 25-60K for teachers
well, it isn't THE problem our public education system sucks, but its definitely a part of the problem
Zebo
Elite Member
I'd say enough so it's not a modern form of economic slavery. Meaning one could feasibly work in a minimum wage type job and still have funds and time to better themselves via schooling/training along with provide food and shelter. Obviously it would vary by region. Somewhere around $20 an hour would be about the national average.
Whoozyerdaddy
Lifer
Civil servant (police and fire men) - As much as their union can negotiate with the specific governing body that regulates their pay. Realisically $80k-100k
K-12 teacher - same as above. Sucks to be in a union. I'd pin pay on the level of their degree. I'd like to see a non-tenure system too. What a bunch of crap that is.
Sucks to be in a union where you can't negotiate salary.
CEO of a sucessful company - As much as he can get, contingent on company performance. In situations like this I prefer to see a modest base $500,000 - $1,000,000 with company performance bonuses making up the bulk of their pay. The better the company performs, the more they make. NO GOLDEN PARACHUTES.
US autoworker - Same as the other union folks... sucks to be in a union where you can't negotiate your own salary.
US congressman - Minimum wage. It's a privelege to serve right? Besides, that's about all they're worth these days. They end up making more on the back end of the job than the actual salary anyway.
Domestic worker - I'm assuming something like a hotel housekeeper? As much as they can get. Realistically though, a job lke that is worth $8-12/hr depending on where you are.
Me - (Former home theater store manager - Now starting up as a realtor, mortgage broker and business broker - Currently semi-retired... heh) Just left an $85-90k career... So as much as I'm capable of making. Hustle boy! 😛
K-12 teacher - same as above. Sucks to be in a union. I'd pin pay on the level of their degree. I'd like to see a non-tenure system too. What a bunch of crap that is.
Sucks to be in a union where you can't negotiate salary.
CEO of a sucessful company - As much as he can get, contingent on company performance. In situations like this I prefer to see a modest base $500,000 - $1,000,000 with company performance bonuses making up the bulk of their pay. The better the company performs, the more they make. NO GOLDEN PARACHUTES.
US autoworker - Same as the other union folks... sucks to be in a union where you can't negotiate your own salary.
US congressman - Minimum wage. It's a privelege to serve right? Besides, that's about all they're worth these days. They end up making more on the back end of the job than the actual salary anyway.
Domestic worker - I'm assuming something like a hotel housekeeper? As much as they can get. Realistically though, a job lke that is worth $8-12/hr depending on where you are.
Me - (Former home theater store manager - Now starting up as a realtor, mortgage broker and business broker - Currently semi-retired... heh) Just left an $85-90k career... So as much as I'm capable of making. Hustle boy! 😛
Lots of differences in what people think others should make. Honesty I dont really know how much other people make with the exception of what the other bldg. trades make.
I just really dont care. I think a successful CEO should make a lot of money based on them devoting their life to a company, resulting in profits for all. They give up life.
I think LE and FD get a free pass, many other jobs are just a dangerous and more demanding. Most of them hire telemarketers to do fund raising which seems bogus to me.
Teachers work 9 months of the year, I have run across a few teachers I have thought were terrible.
Politicians should make a decent salary, they should NOT get any perks, lobbying should be illegal.
All in all every job has its purpose and we would all find life harder without maids, lawyers, bus drivers, and doctors. Well, maybe not lawyers.
Bottom line, I am a carpenter and without out us you guys would be sleeping in a cardboard box tonight and those of you who make well above average would be willing to pay me $200 hr. to put your roof back on after a storm if thats what the market would bear.
God created man equal yet each company has its dumbest worker.
I just really dont care. I think a successful CEO should make a lot of money based on them devoting their life to a company, resulting in profits for all. They give up life.
I think LE and FD get a free pass, many other jobs are just a dangerous and more demanding. Most of them hire telemarketers to do fund raising which seems bogus to me.
Teachers work 9 months of the year, I have run across a few teachers I have thought were terrible.
Politicians should make a decent salary, they should NOT get any perks, lobbying should be illegal.
All in all every job has its purpose and we would all find life harder without maids, lawyers, bus drivers, and doctors. Well, maybe not lawyers.
Bottom line, I am a carpenter and without out us you guys would be sleeping in a cardboard box tonight and those of you who make well above average would be willing to pay me $200 hr. to put your roof back on after a storm if thats what the market would bear.
God created man equal yet each company has its dumbest worker.
Siddhartha
Lifer
I have found that you get what you pay for. Meaning the better the wage the higher quality the people who will apply for the job. It amazes me that people have trouble paying people who have critical jobs, police, teachers, congressmen, etc a decent competitive wage.
Civil servant (police and fire men): 50K to 100K. It is crucial that the police earn a good living to help fight corruption and to increase the quality of who applies for the job.
K-12 teacher: 50K to 200K. Education of our children is the most important thing a society should do and should have the best people doing it.
CEO of a sucessful company: What ever the market will pay.
US autoworker: What ever the market will pay.
US congressman: 1,000,000 a year. These people are running our country. We want the best people we can get to do it. Also getting paid a decent wage will fight corruption.
Domestic worker: What ever the market will pay
and
you (provide your profession) I worked in the research division of a large multinational company: 45K to 120K this is the current range[/quote]
Whoozyerdaddy
Lifer
Why did you quote yourself?
imported_Lothar
Diamond Member
So we shouldn't pay teachers, and police officers?
I'm guessing you also think we shouldn't pay anyone in the military as well?
imported_Lothar
Diamond Member
$1,000,000 for a congressman?
You're the odd one out in this thread, Bob.
Stunt
Diamond Member
Pay will be determined by the number of people who are able to do your job. If anybody off the street can do your job, you deserve less, if your job requires education and experience, you deserve more. Companies usually compensate this way and there's nothing more fair than that.
Personally I am a big fan of 50% skills and ability and 50% performance based metrics.
For a school teacher this would be their education and how effective they are at improving a child's academic performance.
For a CEO it should be based purely on the amount he is able to increase profitablity and shareholder value.
For an autoworker it should be based on piece count and cost savings suggestions.
For a congressman it should be based on the number of votes he receives, the amount of taxes he reduces and the number of people who no longer need public assistance.
For my job it should be based on a) cost savings I offer my company, b) reduced liabilities my company is exposed to.
Personally I am a big fan of 50% skills and ability and 50% performance based metrics.
For a school teacher this would be their education and how effective they are at improving a child's academic performance.
For a CEO it should be based purely on the amount he is able to increase profitablity and shareholder value.
For an autoworker it should be based on piece count and cost savings suggestions.
For a congressman it should be based on the number of votes he receives, the amount of taxes he reduces and the number of people who no longer need public assistance.
For my job it should be based on a) cost savings I offer my company, b) reduced liabilities my company is exposed to.
imported_Tango
Golden Member
I think teachers should be paid more. And I mean way more. In the long run there is no other category with an higher impact on how the society will evolve. If you don't attract talents in the field you will have entire generations with poor education, which in the long run will determine absence of ideas.
Look at how foreign students routinely outperform American students at US universities. Those students are the product of education systems with far less financial resources than the American one, but their teachers were often very bright and chose teaching as a career because it was perceived as a prestigious profession.
Teaching in the US and Western Europe doesn't command the prestige it should considering how important it is for a country. Get better people to teach. And pay them what they deserve.
Look at how foreign students routinely outperform American students at US universities. Those students are the product of education systems with far less financial resources than the American one, but their teachers were often very bright and chose teaching as a career because it was perceived as a prestigious profession.
Teaching in the US and Western Europe doesn't command the prestige it should considering how important it is for a country. Get better people to teach. And pay them what they deserve.
You're right, but fireman usually only work like 3-4 days a week and require no college degree. Policemen don't always have a 4 year degree either. If you want to talk about risking your life, let's talk about people in the military, in particular the ones doing the actual "fighting." There is significantly more risk being in Iraq than being a policeman. Being a police officer isn't really THAT dangerous unless you're in a bad area such as Detroit or parts of LA.
TraumaRN
Diamond Member
Even in Detroit it's not as dangerous as you'd think...and I work in Detroit and know plenty of Detroit officers.
But I do think teachers and police/firefighter should get somewhere between 60-100K a year.
Personally congressman should be paid hourly and should but paid based on showing up for votes and what not.
For myself...I start as an ER nurse....probably will start at around $24/hr with guaranteed overtime each week. Should make between about 52-64K because of that. Pay should max somewhere around 90K maybe a little more. Depends on what I do with my bachelors degree and if I go back for more schooling.
Their 3-4 day shifts are 24h shifts. Do they require a college degree? No, but who cares? A college degree isn't everything. It isn't a sign that someone is better, nor that they somehow have some better work ethic. And while a small town police offer may not risk a huge amount, a large city is quite risky. Places like Detroit, Chicago and L.A. are quite dangerous. How about pulling someone over and getting shot over it?
Hell, you make a claim about the military, ever ask what they do when they're out of uniform (for all of the reservists and national guard)? You're probably going to find a huge chunk being policemen or firefighters.
TraumaRN
Diamond Member
Yea but my money will go as far or farther than in Cali. Cost of Living is WAY cheaper in Detroit Metro area.
Consider I could get a house less than 10 years old with 2,500 sq feet for 250K.....hell if I look hard enough 2,700 sq feet if the owner is desperate.
Honestly I can be making 80K within 3-5 years and out here if you wife or husband has a good job as well thats a very comfortable living...
Siddhartha
Lifer
You get what pay for. I want the best people running my government, not just rich people.
judasmachine
Diamond Member
I agree for the most part, although I would give the autoworkers a little boost, maybe 35K or 40K. And maybe the civil servants too. I know it isn't the accepted that companies to take care of their employees, but I think they perform an important function for the whole of the machine, nonetheless.
Oh and it depends on property values of the surrounding territory too. In some places you can live alright on 30K, others, you'll slowly lose your shirt.
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