Rate of Return for the period beginning January 1, 2008 and ending September 17, 2008 is -26.91%
youre beating me!
its not as simple as that. most people i know thier employers dont even come close to matching 50%, its usually some small single digit number.
on the other hand 401k contributions dont count towards your income, which means paying less tax. i think?
right now im down so much, but i dont really care. itll go back up before i retire.
I was way up for 3 years, something like 22%, then a quarter or two ago it dropped back and now I'm still up about 6% over 3 years. There are tricks you can do for 401K... my father is watching his and from what I understand he will do the following... close out his 401K this year at a huge loss from last year, claim the loss, and buy another portfolio of approximately the same set. I would have to review exactly what it was he said he would do, but in essence you claim a loss and deduct from your income total, reducing your end of year tax, and paying the tax on the sale, and if you do it right you can save a few thousand in these cases. If you are interested I can get the info and document it here later.
Oh yeah, and I don't expect it to be much better, but you have to take it for a long term investment. If you are a lucky one who can predict the stock market well, and there have been very very few, then go for it. I just personally can say I haven't met anyone who has always succeeded in raising their interests and never taken at least a loss in some way.
Oh yeah, and I don't expect it to be much better, but you have to take it for a long term investment. If you are a lucky one who can predict the stock market well, and there have been very very few, then go for it. I just personally can say I haven't met anyone who has always succeeded in raising their interests and never taken at least a loss in some way.
That's called Loss Harvesting, and only works in taxable accounts. If your father is trying to do it in his 401k, the IRS will be happy to assess the appropriate taxes, fees, and penalties.
http://www.accumulatingmoney.com/loss-harvesting/
Originally posted by: Engineer
Originally posted by: randay
madness? this is retirement.*self jump into pit*
Yep. Damn depressing it is.
The economy and the stock market move in cycles. They always have, and probably will in the future. I don't understand why people are getting so stressed out about their retirement account balances. There will be down periods in the stock market. That's just the way it goes.
If you're close to retirement and are losing sleep over your portfolio, then your asset allocation probably doesn't match your risk tolerance.
dullard
Elite Member
- May 21, 2001
- 26,120
- 4,771
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Sorry I missed this post earlier.
You made an assumption. That assumption is not necessarilly true. You assumed the posters here have a significant amount of money in stocks that can reliably be timed in and out of the market. That is a very difficult thing to do properly. Luckilly last Sept I stopped buying stocks, rebalanced some stocks into more bonds, and dumped all additional money into my mortage. I got a guaranteed 6% return from the mortgage. I guess I beat your 5% return.
And anyways, that has little bearing on the point of my post. For most of us on ATOT, we have 30-40 years until retirement. Thus, a falling stock market now means we have that much more of a chance for a MUCH bigger retirement fund when we retire. It does not really matter if last year I had it in stocks, bonds, commodoties, or real-estate. From NOW on, I will be much better off. Your point is more of just a distraction from the truth that I spoke.
Lets try the numbers again.
Case 1: Stocks rise 10% per year for 30 years. The original shares went up by a factor of 1.1^30 = 17.45. Last year I had $100 of those stocks. This year it is now worth $110. Lets say I keep putting in $100 once a year. After 30 years (starting from last year) I'd have $18,094.34 just before putting in my money.
Case 2: Stocks rise 10% per year for 30 years. The original shares went up by a factor of 1.1^30 = 17.45. Last year I had $100 that I put in your "safe" 5% place. This year it is now worth $105. Lets say I switch to stocks and keep putting in $100 once a year. After 30 years (starting from last year) I'd have $18,015.03 just before putting in my money. Your "safe" bet lost $79.31 in the long haul.
Case 3: Stocks fall 10% for one year, then gain 10.764% for 29 years. The original shares went up by a factor of 17.45 (the same final results as the cases above). Last year I had $100 of those stocks. This year it is now worth $90. Lets say I keep putting in $100 once a year. After 30 years (starting from last year) I'd have $20,767.15 just before putting in my money. Even by losing money early on, this case is FAR better than BOTH of the cases above.
Case 4: Stocks fall 10% for one year, then gain 10.764% for 29 years. The original shares went up by a factor of 17.45 (the same final results as the cases above). Last year I had $100 that I put in your "safe" 5% place. This year it is now worth $105. Lets say I switch to stocks and keep putting in $100 once a year. After 30 years (starting from last year) I'd have $21,057.97 just before putting in my money. Now, your "safe" bet gained $290.82 vs. case #3.
Your move, if timed perfectly, could gain money (case #4 vs. case #3). But it could also lose money (case #2 vs. case #1). However, the move of the money had a very minor impact compared to the gain from the stock market falling. [/b]Even if you kept it in the stock market and lost the 10%, you are still much better off if the market falls.[/b]
True, you are correct that the best case is moving it out of stocks, having stocks fall, then move it back in. But that is just a distraction from my original point: the stocks falling is where you really gain. Moving it around gains more than letting it stay in the falling stocks, but the move is a minor gain compared to the gain from the stock market fall.
including today, probably -10% give or take.
over 7 years of contribution, i've made almost nothing (like 0.5% YoY) other than preserving my capital.
it's never as good as the brochures indicated.
over 7 years of contribution, i've made almost nothing (like 0.5% YoY) other than preserving my capital.
it's never as good as the brochures indicated.
What? There is a chance you can lose money in the stock market? WHY DIDNT THEY TELL ME?????!!!! [reverend wright] GOD DAMN AMERICA [/reverend wright]
But you still have people in here that want to give Social Security to the Republicans to put in the market.
savings contribution:
11% in 401k
9% in discounted stock (-15% premium)
fun market portfolio i infrequently add money to
how am i doing? none has ever been withdrawn from
11% in 401k
9% in discounted stock (-15% premium)
fun market portfolio i infrequently add money to
how am i doing? none has ever been withdrawn from
down quite a bit. just started contributing, but matching didn't start to recently (lame match, 403b, and I was misinformed about earlier matching). anyway, down a huge chunk since i had a good portion in equity from earlier I never moved out. yeah.. i realize the stupidity in that. I reallocated future funds, but never went back otherwise.
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