How many people here actually build their computers?

[Special K]

Originally posted by: EyeMWing

Originally posted by: TGS

Originally posted by: Special K
Here I'll just throw this out here because I'm bored:

Earlier I posted that I bought a Dell because I found a good deal that I couldn't beat by buying comparable parts individually and building. Well here is what I got for $1200 on the Dell Outlet site:

P3 3.0 GHz 630 model
1 GB DDR2
GF 6800 GTO
Samsung DVD
NEC 3520A DVD+-RW
Maxtor 250 GB
SB Audigy 2 ZS
Winxp home
3 year warranty

AMD Athlon 64 3200+ 512K 90nm Rev. E Venice (939) ( Box-w-Fan) $209
Corsair 1GB PC3200 DDR DIMM Memory(2x512) $82.90
Radeon X800XL 256MB GDDR3 PCI Express x16 Video Card - Retail $325
AOpen Black IDE DVD Burner Model 91.4ID37.004 - OEM $39.99
AOpen Black IDE DVD Burner Model 91.4ID37.004 - OEM $39.99
Seagate Barracuda 7200.8 300GB Serial ATA150 Hard Drive - Retail $200
CREATIVE Sound Blaster Audigy2 ZS SB0350 Sound - OEM $71
Microsoft Windows XP HOME Edition With Service Pack 2 - OEM $91.95
Raidmax Samurai 908 Mid Tower Gaming Case (black w/ 420 PSU) $119.99
___________________________________________________________________
Total before taxes $1179.82

Retail warranty, or specific warranty through manufacturer. Though you may be able to find better, I stuck with Zipzoom, Monarch, and the Egg.

You missed the mobo. Dump the stupid Audigy2 (whatever's on the board will be better) and get a motherboard.

As was pointed out, there is no mobo in that list. Even if you dropped the audigy and added a decent mobo, the price would still be about $1200. Figure in another ~$30 for shipping and the Dell ends up being cheaper than this one. Add in all the software that was included (I didn't because I will never use it) and there is no way to beat the price.

Granted the CPU is faster and the vidcard is slightly faster (from the quick glance I did at the benchmarks) but I'm not a hardcore gamer so it's not a huge deal to me.

On the other hand, what if something in the home built system breaks? Figure 1 week for me to ship it back to newegg, god knows how long it takes them to process RMAs (I've never had to deal with their RMAs), then a week for them to ship the replacement part back.

Compare this to Dell, who, after finding out my 2005fpw had backlight problems, sent me a new one next day air with hardly any questions asked. They even included a return shipping label to send the old one back.

 

[Kelemvor]

I used to back when it was like half price to build your own computer. But these days I would just buy a Dell if I needed one. But I can see what if you're a gamer (like most people here) then you'd want to build your own since basic setups don't have the right hardware and it gets expensive to take a plain dell and upgrade it.

 

[Budmantom]

Originally posted by: FrankyJunior
I used to back when it was like half price to build your own computer. But these days I would just buy a Dell if I needed one. But I can see what if you're a gamer (like most people here) then you'd want to build your own since basic setups don't have the right hardware and it gets expensive to take a plain dell and upgrade it.

The price of a video card doesn't change when your buying for a Dell or a home built.


Tom

 

[EKKC]

i love my dells
i also built 3 AMD rigs
my latest was a Athlon 2800+. its a great gamer rig that i leave at my parent's apt.

 

[mechBgon]

On this system you can upgrade the CPU for a small price

Not to anything that'll compete with an Athlon64 as a gamer, though.

1 year warranty $30

So that's only 2 years less than the minimum on most of my hardware.

you can buy a gig of ram for under $80(newegg) and hd's are less than $.50 a gb that you can add to 3 empty slots.

Dell's chassis specs indicate it has only two positions for HDDs, not fan-cooled either.

Upgrading the CPU, memory and gpu and you will have a capable gaming rig.

Better than a 2400 or 3000, but not A64-level.

Dell will be happy to deck it out for you

Look at the configurator (edit: I followed the link given, maybe you can do better if you're not in the Small Biz store). Although the mobo has four RAM slots, they'll only sell you two memory modules. Although the chassis has two HDD positions, there's nowhere you can choose a second HDD. I resorted to Googling for the chassis specs since Dell doesn't make it easy to find them on the ordering pages.

or you can upgrade this un-upgradeable system by going through newegg either way you have the choice.

...and take out all your upgrades before the Dell tech arrives to service it and finds that it isn't stock. For the first 90 days, anyway. After that it doesn't matter, does it?

Thanks, I'll still pass.

 

[Spamela]

i've been building/upgrading my own for many years.

at work it's all Dell - thousands of them.

 

[Cheezeit]

Originally posted by: Spamela
i've been building/upgrading my own for many years.

at work it's all Dell - thousands of them.

every buesniss ive seen uses dells for their employee's computers.

dell must have some real good marketing people

 

[Budmantom]

quote:

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On this system you can upgrade the CPU for a small price
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Not to anything that'll compete with an Athlon64 as a gamer, though.

For the money your Amd system will be slower than my Intel Dell system.

quote:



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1 year warranty $30
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So that's only 2 years less than the minimum on most of my hardware.


And that's 1 one year less on tech support, even though you may not needed it comes in handy for plenty of people.

quote:



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
you can buy a gig of ram for under $80(newegg) and hd's are less than $.50 a gb that you can add to 3 empty slots.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dell's chassis specs indicate it has only two positions for HDDs, not fan-cooled either.


C'mon you build computers and you can't figure it out.... I have in mine... I'll pm you the number to Dell's tech support and they'll help you. j/k

quote:



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Upgrading the CPU, memory and gpu and you will have a capable gaming rig.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Better than a 2400 or 3000, but not A64-level.

Let's compare apples to apples 4700, 5100 or an XPS system.

quote:


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dell will be happy to deck it out for you
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Look at the configurator. Although the mobo has four RAM slots, they'll only sell you two memory modules. Although the chassis has two HDD positions, there's nowhere you can choose a second HDD. I resorted to Googling for the chassis specs since Dell doesn't make it easy to find them on the ordering pages.


Do we need to call Dell Tech support again, I see it as big as day "2GB Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 400MHz (4x512M) " and you call yourself a computer guy


quote:



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
or you can upgrade this un-upgradeable system by going through newegg either way you have the choice.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

...and take out all your upgrades before the Dell tech arrives to service it and finds that it isn't stock. For the first 90 days, anyway. After that it doesn't matter, does it?

Thanks, I'll still pass.


I hope your not the guy that spreads the rumor that if you open the case of a Dell you void the warranty. I would personally like to welcome you to the new millennium, Dell has walked my brother in law through installing additional hd's, memory and video cards all non-Dell.

 

[mechBgon]

Sounds like it all boils down to "accept mediocrity, look how cheap it is up-front" I'd add more rebuttals but I got to get some work done here

 

[Aries64]

Originally posted by: WookE
Specific issues I have with Dell systems.

Designed similar to a shaved poodle...you get no fluff or extra features. If you research chipset, processor, SATA controllers, SCSI controllers, BIOS and OC ability and you want a system capable of the most graphic intensive games and programs you would be better served putting together a team of parts much like Phil Jackson put together the LA Lakers...you pick your stars and pay your dues.

Proprietary to keep you hooked on Dell support. Just try and find out the tolerances on Dell heatsinks or upgrade from a Northwood to a Prescott and watch that thing burn baby.

Any company as large as Dell has considerable bargaining power and should be ashamed to not offer AMD processors. AMD Athlon X2 Dual core systems are second to none and out perform the Pentium D EE Dual Core by a margin of 30% on nearly all benchmarks. Refusing to offer systems based on the AMD platform is the coup de grace for Dell.

For personal use I have built systems my entire life never having bought a retail box. But when my mom asked me to suggest a system............




I configured a Dell because for the technically retarded there is simply no better alternative for all the reasons already stated in previous posts.

I agree with you on the "pay to play" aspect of PCs. If you want the best, fastest, most reliable components normally it is best to cherry-pick your parts. But obviously it will cost more. Always does. Always will.

Proprietary yes, definitely. Part of marketing. They want you to be dependent on them so you will pay for the extended warranties. They (Dell) also don't want people fvcking with the PCs' themselves because there are lots of noobs out there who can't even install software themselves. Even though this may mean more money for Dell if the system happens to be out of warranty (they usually charge per incidence when this is the case) the tech people don't want noobs creating more variables (and thus more tech line time and frustration for the techs).

But, in fairness to Dell, it really "isn't Dell's fault for not offering AMD systems". We can all thank Intel for that. Intel has been making it difficult (if not downright financial suicide) for even large companies like Dell through unethical, strongarm business practices like witholding CPU shipments, ect for years now in order to impede AMD's proliferation into the market through well known companies like Dell.

 

[Budmantom]

Originally posted by: mechBgon
Sounds like it all boils down to "accept mediocrity, look how cheap it is up-front" I'd add more rebuttals but I got to get some work done here

C'mon now don't get down on your home built rigs and call them mediocre and cheap, I'm sure they are fine.


Well it's all a matter of what important to you and if your happy with your home built rig it's all good. Dell and Home built both have their distinct advantages and disadvantages.


Tom

 

[mechBgon]

Quickly:

1) check the link given for the Hot Deal. I can't pick four memory modules or two HDD's. Where are you looking? Not the SB store, I take it?

2) I had to do a Google siteell.com dimension 4700 spec to get the chassis specs. If they're wrong, then let Dell know they need to post the correct info. Thanks.

3) Dell can't very well refuse to let people install stuff or what would be the point of expansion slots? Supporting the system when it's loaded with non-factory hardware might be a different story. I'm basing that off of what I've heard from Dell owners.

4) An XPS 5 might have a good chance against a budget A64. I got a new Dell catalog and they aren't $500, however

5) You think your Dell will outperform my A64, eh? I think you might have some blind spots :evil:


</quickly>

 

[Budmantom]

Quickly:

1) check the link given for the Hot Deal. I can't pick four memory modules or two HDD's. Where are you looking? Not the SB store, I take it?

Dell---> Home -----> Desktop----->4700------> A Dell bought in SB is the same as home, Sir you are making this far too difficult.

2) I had to do a Google siteell.com dimension 4700 spec to get the chassis specs. If they're wrong, then let Dell know they need to post the correct info. Thanks.

Done!

3) Dell can't very well refuse to let people install stuff or what would be the point of expansion slots? Supporting the system when it's loaded with non-factory hardware might be a different story. I'm basing that off of what I've heard from Dell owners.

Actually it can Compaq and HP have(not sure if they still do), Dell won't go out of their way to fix your non Dell related problems but I have had good luck with them and my non Dell purchased wireless system(I guess it's the luck of the draw).

4) An XPS 5 might have a good chance against a budget A64. I got a new Dell catalog and they aren't $500, however

The "deals" aren't in the Dell catalog

5) You think your Dell will outperform my A64, eh? I think you might have some blind spots

If the budget was $500 and you had to include a 19" lcd it would

Dollar for dollar my Dell will outperform your A64 system, now if your talking top of the line (Athlon 64 FX 57 or close) Dell has no match for that but how many here go top of the line.
.

Tom

 

[oogabooga]

for my next rig i will be buying and building my rig. It's the fun in building it for me. Even when i'm frustrated to the point of tears at the stupid piece of @*%@ i still have a blast building it and getting it to work.

that said : i own more then one computer : and when it's time to upgrade if dell has a deal that is unbeatable.. well.. i'd be willing to see how they do.

 

[mechBgon]

Dell---> Home -----> Desktop----->4700------> A Dell bought in SB is the same as home, Sir you are making this far too difficult.

Show me where. Or did the deal expire? 4700's appear to bottom out at $639 in the Home store.

Anyway, I ran down the 4700 configurator real fast and set one up with 1GB of DC DDR400, a 3.2GHz CPU, a vanilla 6800, WinXP Professional Edition, 3 years of coverage, a 40GB SATAn drive (not that I'd tolerate this for anything but bulk storage in real life) and a single DVD burner. $1,099 after 20% OFF Instantly. I left out the monitor for easier cross-comparison.

That's as close as they have to my gaming system, performance-wise. A touch higher in the GPU, somewhat slower in the CPU, same amount of RAM, same OS, inferior hard drive. I don't have time ATM to add up precise pricing on my gaming-rig mix, but even if I had to buy a 36GB Maxtor Atlas 15K II or Fujitsu MAU3036NP, an LSI Logic SCSI card/cable/adapter and retail-boxed WinXP Pro, I think my system is actually cheaper. And of course several of those items, I already bought once and got it over with.

If you can find the link that you've referred to, please post it.

 

[Budmantom]

I'll try.


2GB Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 400MHz (4x512M)


I bought my systen on April 7th of 2004 for $1211 shipped including tax.

3.4ghz p4
40gbhd
9800pro
512mb
17"lcd
palm zire
-$100mir

1211-100mir-270(lcd I sold that week)-50 (palm sold same week)=$791 for a stout gaming rig.

Now remember this was over a year ago and these deals don't happen everyday but I have seen plenty detter deal since.


Tom

 

[Ornery]

What's your system specs btw, Ornery?

I honestly don't know, because I honestly don't care. All I know is, IT'S QUIET!

Here, I'll look at my Pavilion:

• It's an AMD Athlon XP 3000+
  2.10GHz, 448 MB of RAM
  Using onboard graphics of the ASUS A7N8X-LA

My older son's Pavilion is similar, and my younger son's recently built one has the Athlon 64 3000+ Processor Socket 939 and GA-K8NF-9, with a PCI-E graphics card of some kind. Just got his $20.00 HS/Fan installed, and it's much quieter, but I can still hear the VGA fan and HDDs whining. If I had it to do over, I'd buy the Dell or HP instead.

Two more Dimension 4700 Desktops are being ordered by friends this evening. I told them to order them stripped, and add parts later as needed. They may very well buy RAM immediately, but won't be paying Dell's inflated price for it. I told them to go ahead and cough up the extra $20.00 for the 80GB HDD if they thought they really needed more than 40GB right now, but both said that would be PLENTY.

Both will be gaming, so a video card will be purchased at some point, but not at Dell's inflated upgrade price, and not right away. For $50.00, they can grab a DVD burner later as well.

The quest for a few extra FPS reaches a point of diminishing returns in a big hurry. If HP were offering anywhere near this kind of deal, I'd send 'em that way, but that monitor puts it well out of HP's reach. And, there's no fvcking way I could even come close to that amount of PC/Monitor for that price.

 

[mechBgon]

Budphantom... that's supposed to be faster/better dollar-for-dollar than an A64 3000+ with a 6600GT, double the RAM, a 15k SCSI drive and XP Professional Edition? And how long is the warranty?

In other news, mechBgon triples his lifetime ATOT post count...

 

[Budmantom]

Originally posted by: mechBgon
Budphantom... that's supposed to be faster/better dollar-for-dollar than an A64 3000+ with a 6600GT, double the RAM, a 15k SCSI drive and XP Professional Edition? And how long is the warranty?

In other news, mechBgon triples his lifetime ATOT post count...

Did the link work, do you finally see that it will take 4 sticks of memory?

How much did you pay and how old is that system?




Tom

 

[mechBgon]

The link works, it is the same one I used to price with. It offers more options than Small Biz, yes, but where is the $499 special with the 19" LCD and stuff? Did that deal end, or am I just not seeing it?

There's no single answer to how old my system is, or how much it cost. Once it's done doing the sort of lava-lamp-style merge-&-separate thing with my other A64, and they both emerge from the metamorphosis, it will have the old X15-36LP SCSI drive I got way back in '00, the 6600GT, 1GB of ValueSelect 3200, the K8N-E Deluxe, the Clawhammer 3000+ and the TruePower 430, probably in ...ergh, can't decide which case I want to put it in

Uh oh, gotta jam. More later.

 

[wyvrn]

I built my first computer, and probably 100 after that. I don't have time to keep up with the latest technology anymore, so I use a notebook. I'll buy a Dell if I want a desktop because it's just less hassle. But the cool thing is I can still play Guild Wars on my laptop

 

[Fenixgoon]

ya damn right i do

 

[Ornery]

Originally posted by: mechBgon
The link works, it is the same one I used to price with. It offers more options than Small Biz, yes, but where is the $499 special with the 19" LCD and stuff? Did that deal end, or am I just not seeing it?

There's no single answer to how old my system is, or how much it cost...

Building your own, is NEVER a Hot Deal... just another expensive hobby.

 

[mechBgon]

Originally posted by: Ornery

Originally posted by: mechBgon
The link works, it is the same one I used to price with. It offers more options than Small Biz, yes, but where is the $499 special with the 19" LCD and stuff? Did that deal end, or am I just not seeing it?

There's no single answer to how old my system is, or how much it cost...

Building your own, is NEVER a Hot Deal... just another expensive hobby.

Since you think buying a Dell and aftermarket-equipping it is a great plan, and are recommending that to your friends, go ahead and help this guy out with some advice:
<a target=_blank class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview.aspx?catid=27&threadid=1633026&enterthread=y">Help with Dimension 4700 6600GT smoking problem
</a>


Addressing a different aspect of this thread that bugs me... I don't agree with the mentality of trying to wash one's hands of support for one's family. My mom and dad deserve whatever support they might need from me with their two mechBgon-built computers. I'd have to be a pretty heartless Ferengi to be looking for ways to excuse myself from an obligation to help them. Ditto for my sisters, two of whom have custom rigs too.

/me looks at the poll results... hmmm, the message is clear

 

[Ornery]

What's with all the Dell talk???

The answer is clear. You CAN'T touch the Hot Deal price... PERIOD.

I don't give a damn about who helps who. I'd be doing my friends and family a disservice by building them a PC, instead of referring them to an extraordinary deal. My co-workers both missed out on getting a free printer thrown in the same deal a couple weeks ago. One had friends who "custom build computers" telling him Dells weren't any good. I told him to tell them to sell him the same configuration, for the same price, monitor and all. Days after the sale ended, he's asking if the deal will come up again. :roll:

The PS is NOT proprietary, and the mobo is made by Intel, as is the CPU. There's a name brand HDD included, and 2 SATA connectors to add more. PCI-E slot for wondrous "gaming" vid cards, and whisper quiet operation in a turn key solution. All shipped free for less than $500 INCLUDING a 19" LCD. Can you offer a better Hot Deal? The answer is clear alright...