How many people here actually build their computers?

[shilala]

I build my own stuff because I enjoy learning and I enjoy building.
I can constantly upgrade my rig with top quality parts at a fraction of the price I'd pay out for a high performance Dell rig.
I do a lot of graphics intense stuff and game on my machine, so building makes sense.

Take my wife and 14 year old daughter...
14 year old masecrates the english language on ICQ, listens to music and shops. She does that just fine on her old Compaq that someone left behind at one of our rentals. She's a perfect fit for a Deal Hot Deal.
My wife emails, looks for recipes, and makes greeting cards on her rig. It's an Antec Aria/2500 Barton/512mb/200GB/DVDRW. The DVD burner has never burned a disc. There's about 12 GB of info stored.
It's a waste. She's perfect for a Dell Hot Deal.
My 8 year old daughter likes to game, burn cd's, edit pics, and commonly has lots of apps going at once. She gets my old parts, so when I upgrade, she upgrades. She'll always need a custom machine to keep up with what she does. The more she learns, the more power she needs. She's my partner in geekdom.

 

[remagavon]

Originally posted by: EyeMWing

Originally posted by: LongCoolMother
i used to build my own systems. but DELL has gotten so cheap and reliable now that it has become the better option for me. you wouldnt believe how quiet the dells are, they are SILENT. and the reliability is great. expandibility is a problem though. thats just about the only drawback.

Cheap. Yes.
Reliable. Usually, but when you get a bad one, you get a *BAD* one.
Quiet. Usually.
Hot. GOD YES. Most Dells thermal throttle due to the piss-poor stock cooling.

I had a stock 6800 ultra in a STOCK dell chassis, that did not throttle at all (either the video card or the cpu). Dell didn't even offer that card with my system at the time I used it in an 8300, so it was in no way designed to handle the added heat load. I got no power warning either, with their 'horrible' psu that is actually extremely undervalued.

 

[remagavon]

Originally posted by: TGS

Originally posted by: jumpr
It's usually cheaper for me to buy an SC420 than to build my own. I'm not a power user, so performance isn't important to me; the main concern I have is stability and noise.

For those two concerns, you can't beat Dell. Plus, getting an SC420 with a 2.8 GHz processor, 512MB RAM and a SATA HDD for $400 ain't a bad deal.

Winchester 3000 - 146
Abit AV8 - 94.75
Corsair 1GB 3200 - 85
WD2000JD SATA 200GB - 88

___________________________
Total 413.75

So for a few bucks more, you get a fair superior box. What you don't get is a proprietary power supply, (dell owners correct me) that plugs into a board that only works with a "Dell" power supply. Along with a plastic covered case.

I don't know if the above Dell Deal includes XP home.

So add 100 bucks for a real computer, and you can see why I don't like Dell.

More thrifty shoppers can find a better deal that what I came up with. I just laid out a system close to what I have, although I added the cost of a good 19" LCD and a 6800GT.

Where is your case, floppy (not all dell's have this stock though), cdrom/dvd/burner (one of which is usually free at dell). That adds around $100 without the xp software.. so you're looking at almost $200 more which is quite a bit.

 

[Megatomic]

Build 'em myself. This place is full of people who do so.

 

[Budmantom]

Since I hate to overpay I have purchased Dell for the last few years (I normally keep them for under a year) and I normally sell them for more than I purchased them for.

Last Dell that I bought was a 2400(appliance) with monitor, cd burner, 512mb, 80gb hd, 2 year warranty, tech support, os and 6 months of earthlink for $250 for my father in law.

I also got a screaming deal on my Dell and it's more of a gaming (power) system.




Tom

 

[Budmantom]

Originally posted by: mechBgon

Originally posted by: Ornery

Originally posted by: mechBgon

edit: getting towards the end of this thread, I see the Dell cheapies are getting argued about. Upgrade the 90-day warranty to a 3-year warranty so we're talking apples & apples, and see what that does to the price Yep, the core hardware in my rig carries warranties ranging from 3 years to 5 years to lifetime.

Also, how about a model with a PCI-E or AGP graphics-card slot so we again are comparing apples to apples? Hmmm? Oh, those cost more?

To me "computer" means more than "appliance capable of email, web surfing and Barbie games," I guess that's part of my issue with the Dell cheapies

:roll:

These friggin' "appliances" are outdated before you can blink, let alone buy extra warranty for the damn things. Dell's come with PCI-E slots, 19" LCDs, free printer, and free shipping for $500.00 after rebate. Oh, and the damn things are QUIET! Like I said, "I feel like a chump for building my last one."

How long's your warranty, out of curiosity?

As for quietness, they're quiet... under light load. We have a few Optiplexes at work, and when the CPU actually gets some work to do, they spool up their rear fans to a pretty noticable level. Typically that's during the daily antivirus scan. If it weren't for fear of busting the factory warranty, I'd consider equipping a couple for desktop video editing. But I guess that's what our custom AMD rigs are for

edit: and by "appliance," I'm talking about the typical Dell Dementia 2400 and such.

MechBgon,

Dell has been offering PCI-E for a long time, tell us about the 24-7 tech support that you have on your home built system.

In fact lets hear about your system and how much you paid for it(since your so proud).


Tom

 

[WookE]

Specific issues I have with Dell systems.

Designed similar to a shaved poodle...you get no fluff or extra features. If you research chipset, processor, SATA controllers, SCSI controllers, BIOS and OC ability and you want a system capable of the most graphic intensive games and programs you would be better served putting together a team of parts much like Phil Jackson put together the LA Lakers...you pick your stars and pay your dues.

Proprietary to keep you hooked on Dell support. Just try and find out the tolerances on Dell heatsinks or upgrade from a Northwood to a Prescott and watch that thing burn baby.

Any company as large as Dell has considerable bargaining power and should be ashamed to not offer AMD processors. AMD Athlon X2 Dual core systems are second to none and out perform the Pentium D EE Dual Core by a margin of 30% on nearly all benchmarks. Refusing to offer systems based on the AMD platform is the coup de grace for Dell.

For personal use I have built systems my entire life never having bought a retail box. But when my mom asked me to suggest a system............




I configured a Dell because for the technically retarded there is simply no better alternative for all the reasons already stated in previous posts.

 

[Ornery]

...technically retarded...

Oh, the irony :roll:

 

[mechBgon]

Originally posted by: Budmantom

Originally posted by: mechBgon

Originally posted by: Ornery

Originally posted by: mechBgon

edit: getting towards the end of this thread, I see the Dell cheapies are getting argued about. Upgrade the 90-day warranty to a 3-year warranty so we're talking apples & apples, and see what that does to the price Yep, the core hardware in my rig carries warranties ranging from 3 years to 5 years to lifetime.

Also, how about a model with a PCI-E or AGP graphics-card slot so we again are comparing apples to apples? Hmmm? Oh, those cost more?

To me "computer" means more than "appliance capable of email, web surfing and Barbie games," I guess that's part of my issue with the Dell cheapies

:roll:

These friggin' "appliances" are outdated before you can blink, let alone buy extra warranty for the damn things. Dell's come with PCI-E slots, 19" LCDs, free printer, and free shipping for $500.00 after rebate. Oh, and the damn things are QUIET! Like I said, "I feel like a chump for building my last one."

How long's your warranty, out of curiosity?

As for quietness, they're quiet... under light load. We have a few Optiplexes at work, and when the CPU actually gets some work to do, they spool up their rear fans to a pretty noticable level. Typically that's during the daily antivirus scan. If it weren't for fear of busting the factory warranty, I'd consider equipping a couple for desktop video editing. But I guess that's what our custom AMD rigs are for

edit: and by "appliance," I'm talking about the typical Dell Dementia 2400 and such.

MechBgon,

Dell has been offering PCI-E for a long time

Dell has been offering PCI-E, but not on the bargain-basement cheapies like the 2400 and 3000 that always grace the fronts of their catalogs. And unlike any bargain-basement AMD system I could build, they don't just lack PCI-E graphics slots, they lack AGP slots too, last I checked. No decent upgrades possible. Good luck running Longhorn with full Aero Glass GUI on your throwaway computer, or any cutting-edge games. PCI-slot FX5200 maybe...? Heh.

tell us about the 24-7 tech support that you have on your home built system.

I don't need tech support, I am tech support, as the regulars in Technical Support or General Hardware could tell you. I've been told that my tech support is better than Intel Corporation and Dell themselves, by some of the people whose problems I've solved after Intel and Dell blew their chance at supporting their customers. I think my response time might be better, too :evil:

At work, I have 36 nice nForce/AthlonXP systems I built myself. The only time I needed to do a mobo replacement on one of my builds (user idiocy = dead mobo) I had that taken care of in one hour. So if Dell can dispatch a guy to fix a Dell in 4 hours, he's about 3 hours slower than me. Unlike him, I don't quibble, either. User killed mobo? WTH, I'm fixing it anyway.

In fact lets hear about your system and how much you paid for it(since your so proud).

Which one? And when? Computers are a fluid to me, not a solid. Because they're custom, I rebuild and reconfigure them any time I feel like, to suit the need at hand. I don't have to worry about my Dell/Gateway/Emachine-style warranty going *POOF* on me. In fact, if you've played some Mechwarrior games, it's a lot like mixing and matching your chassis, weapons and equipment among your fleet of 'Mechs

Example: my home rig and work rig are about to swap roles. I'm going to do quite a bit of parts swapping between them to fit my needs for the next 6-12 months. Try THAT with a pair of Dells, and tell me what happens when you call for tech support afterwards :evil: Get my point? Flexibility.

My work rig will end up with two 15k SCSI drives and two high-capacity ATA drives, two DVD burners, some video-capture toys and an A64 3000+, with an upgrade to an A64 X2 later this year when I have the money. Chassis is cooled with dual 120mm fans (Dell-quiet too, as it happens, although the Maxtor 15k II ain't here yet).

So let's see how Dell stacks up.

• Dell has A64's to offer NOPE
• Dell's "deal" computers can handle four hard drives NOPE (maybe an SC420 could, but not the Dimensions or Optiplexes)
• Dell's "deals" have fan cooling for the hard drives, which I consider pretty important for my SCSI drives NOPE
• You can get a Dell with a LightScribe burner NOPE
• If Dell had an A64 rig, I could upgrade the CPU to an X2 later and keep my warranty NOT VERY LIKELY
• If I develop new needs as time goes by, I can freely replace parts in the Dell, including the motherboard, or swap parts between two different models of Dells, and retain my warranty SNOWBALL'S CHANCE OF THAT
• 3-year/5-year/lifetime warranties standard on the components 4-YEAR MAX AND YOU PAY BIG-TIME FOR IT
• When you retire a Dell, you can re-use the OEM software on a different computer NOPE (I have retail-boxed Windows, and will be getting retail-boxed Office, no tying my software down to a piece of hardware)

I want a Viper, not a Neon. They can give the Neon away free and it still ain't a Viper.

My home system will be my other A64 3000+ on my venerable K8N-E Deluxe. Take a look at some AnandTech gaming benchmarks and tell me how competitive you think a Dell with a Prescott CPU would be, other factors being equal.

Cliffs:

+ expanability
+ features
+ flexibility
+ performance
+ support
+ ratio of people agreeing with me, versus agreeing with you, appears to be running ~10:1 right now. No offense


Heh, looks like I wrote a book on ya Sorry about that. Enjoy your Dell if it meets your needs and you're content with the tradeoffs. I'll enjoy my custom rigs and accept my set of tradeoffs too.

 

[Budmantom]

Originally posted by: Ornery
...technically retarded...

Oh, the irony :roll:

Like mother like ...


Tom

 

[Nevada]

been building my own pc's since i was a teen.

 

[Budmantom]

MechBgon,


PCI-E

Dell's affordable PCI-E solution p4 2.8ghz, windows, xp and 17 inch lcd for $429--- and it's easily upgradeable.
When I bought my last computer (April 04) my Dell with a 3.4ghz and a 9800pro was great in all the games that were out at that time.

Tech support

Just because you might not need it doesn't mean it's worthless. My brother in law called tech support on his 3+ year old Dell, they proceeded to tell him that his tech support and warranty were expired and then they spent 20 minutes helping him for free. BTW are you available 24/7 365, how about your hd, memory, video card manufacturer?

Neon and Viper

Dell makes great computers but I agree that they are not for everyone (some do have special needs)but they will work fine for most and they target the majority not the minority. As far as 10-1 agreeing with you... well we all know that the majority isn't always right.

Flexibility

As far as flexibility I have upgraded my HD, sound card, memory, dvd-burner and I'm thinking about upgrading my 9800pro to a 6800gt (on my proprietary un-upgradeable Dell ).



"So let's see how Dell stacks up. "

No A64 solution.... yup your right... I wish they had it.
Four hard drives, why stop at four lets make the case 3 feet tall that can accommodate 20 hd's
I can't get a Dell with a LightScribe burner but I can install one
Upgrading a to a 2x faster cpu is possible in theory but it rarely works in practice AMD and Intel change too often.
When I retire my Dell I can't re-use the software legally but I'm not paying $120 for Windows XP either.. so it's a trade off.







Tom

 

[TBone48]

I always build my own. Not because I think they're so much better, for me it's just fun.

 

[flot]

Why bother? I built my own computers when they still had 5.25" floppies. (and hard drives, for that matter)

These days I can get a brand new Dell every year for $350 and give away the old one to a family member.

I paid more than that for a 66 mhz CPU.

 

[Ornery]

Dell has been offering PCI-E, but not on the bargain-basement cheapies like the 2400 and 3000 that always grace the fronts of their catalogs. And unlike any bargain-basement AMD system I could build, they don't just lack PCI-E graphics slots, they lack AGP slots too, last I checked. No decent upgrades possible. Good luck running Longhorn with full Aero Glass GUI on your throwaway computer, or any cutting-edge games. PCI-slot FX5200 maybe...? Heh.

WTF are you babbling about anyway? The last deal to grace Hot Deals included: P4 520 HT (2,8GHz, 800 FSB), 40GB SATA , and PCI-E slot with FREE 19"E193FP Flat Panel for $499 shipped!

The challenge is for somebody to beat that bang for the buck box, and the FACT is YOU CAN'T!

 

[computeerrgghh]

Hybrid yes/no. Built mine, got my sister the cheapest thing I could find (eMachine for $200 on Black Friday), and bought a laptop cause I like IBM's T series laptops.

 

[WookE]

Originally posted by: Budmantom

Originally posted by: Ornery
...technically retarded...

Oh, the irony :roll:

Like mother like ...


Tom

I see your humor follows with the forum category...off topic.
My question now would be how much is Dell paying you?

Seriously. Ridiculing people of opposing oppinions EX: (since your so proud).
is the basest logical fallacy short of violence and falls to those short on facts and substance.

 

[AnonymouseUser]

Originally posted by: Ornery
Dell has been offering PCI-E, but not on the bargain-basement cheapies like the 2400 and 3000 that always grace the fronts of their catalogs. And unlike any bargain-basement AMD system I could build, they don't just lack PCI-E graphics slots, they lack AGP slots too, last I checked. No decent upgrades possible. Good luck running Longhorn with full Aero Glass GUI on your throwaway computer, or any cutting-edge games. PCI-slot FX5200 maybe...? Heh.

WTF are you babbling about anyway? The last deal to grace Hot Deals included: P4 520 HT (2,8GHz, 800 FSB), 40GB SATA , and PCI-E slot with FREE 19"E193FP Flat Panel for $499 shipped!

The challenge is for somebody to beat that bang for the buck box, and the FACT is YOU CAN'T!

After upgrading several key components* to modern day minimums, total comes out to $987 before $100 MIR for a total of $887.

* multimedia keyboard, optical mouse, 80GB hard drive, 1905fp monitor ($50 more is a good deal), 512MB RAM, 1yr warranty, single DVD burner, X300 SE video card, 2.1 speakers

I prefer to build my own.

 

[Ornery]

You spend several paragraphs bashing Dell, then suggest that your "technically retarded" mom buy one. :roll:

Honestly Poindexter, you just aren't worth the time...

 

[Suspicious-Teach8788]

I buy E-Machines from Fry's or those GQ laptops. Pretty worth it I say.

 

[WookE]

I understand facts seem foreign to you troglodyte.
Good luck upgrading your club.
Goodbye.

 

[Albis]

i love my dell laptop but i built my own shuttle and love it

 

[mechBgon]

Originally posted by: Ornery
Dell has been offering PCI-E, but not on the bargain-basement cheapies like the 2400 and 3000 that always grace the fronts of their catalogs. And unlike any bargain-basement AMD system I could build, they don't just lack PCI-E graphics slots, they lack AGP slots too, last I checked. No decent upgrades possible. Good luck running Longhorn with full Aero Glass GUI on your throwaway computer, or any cutting-edge games. PCI-slot FX5200 maybe...? Heh.

WTF are you babbling about anyway? The last deal to grace Hot Deals included: P4 520 HT (2,8GHz, 800 FSB), 40GB SATA , and PCI-E slot with FREE 19"E193FP Flat Panel for $499 shipped!

The challenge is for somebody to beat that bang for the buck box, and the FACT is YOU CAN'T!

...said Ornery the Athlon64 owner, whose system would eat the Dell Deal alive on performance even if it had an equivalent GPU and the same amount of RAM. Whether he likes to admit it or not

Just glancing at the specs, the existence of the PCIe x16 slot is a nice change from their bottom-feeder units, but the rest of the specs stink.

[*]Prescott 2.8GHz. Inferior performance. You didn't buy one of these, I notice.

[*]19" LCD, but analog only. My 17.4" LCD has DVI and VGA, and the difference in quality is quite evident. I wouldn't buy a 19" analog LCD.

[*]256MB of single-channel DDR2 RAM, and both its capacity and bandwidth are shared with the onboard video. This is ridiculous. The CPU and onboard GPU both need all the memory bandwidth they can possibly get, and here we are with single-channel DDR2? And not even a full 256MB of it for the OS?

[*]WinXP Home Edition. Good luck joining a domain with that.

[*]90-day warranty. Do we have to go over this one again, kids? :evil:

[*]40GB SATA drive. If I want to run a 40GB Snail Drive, I have a 40GB Seagate 7200.7 lying in a cardboard box here that I could use :roll:

[*]Total slots available are 1 PCIe x16, one PCIe x1, and two PCI slots. Right there I'm afraid this couldn't work for me just based on the fact it doesn't have enough PCI slots for my accessory cards.

So if your point is that Dell has a computer whose parts I couldn't buy separately for the same price, you might be correct (although I could go hunt up Hot Deals on individial parts if I felt like it). But what they're selling, I wouldn't have been interested in buying in the first place. Your A64 could hardly help but be a better system. What's your system specs btw, Ornery?

 

[episodic]

Building my own allows me to me many small upgrades over time. It looks like I have the same puter from 4 years ago, yet it is drastically different inside. Many off the shelf systems are propriety and can't be upgraded so easily.

 

[Budmantom]

Originally posted by: mechBgon

Originally posted by: Ornery
Dell has been offering PCI-E, but not on the bargain-basement cheapies like the 2400 and 3000 that always grace the fronts of their catalogs. And unlike any bargain-basement AMD system I could build, they don't just lack PCI-E graphics slots, they lack AGP slots too, last I checked. No decent upgrades possible. Good luck running Longhorn with full Aero Glass GUI on your throwaway computer, or any cutting-edge games. PCI-slot FX5200 maybe...? Heh.

WTF are you babbling about anyway? The last deal to grace Hot Deals included: P4 520 HT (2,8GHz, 800 FSB), 40GB SATA , and PCI-E slot with FREE 19"E193FP Flat Panel for $499 shipped!

The challenge is for somebody to beat that bang for the buck box, and the FACT is YOU CAN'T!

...said Ornery the Athlon64 owner, whose system would eat the Dell Deal alive on performance even if it had an equivalent GPU and the same amount of RAM. Whether he likes to admit it or not

Just glancing at the specs, the existence of the PCIe x16 slot is a nice change from their bottom-feeder units, but the rest of the specs stink.

[*]Prescott 2.8GHz. Inferior performance. You didn't buy one of these, I notice.

[*]19" LCD, but analog only. My 17.4" LCD has DVI and VGA, and the difference in quality is quite evident. I wouldn't buy a 19" analog LCD.

[*]256MB of single-channel DDR2 RAM, and both its capacity and bandwidth are shared with the onboard video. This is ridiculous. The CPU and onboard GPU both need all the memory bandwidth they can possibly get, and here we are with single-channel DDR2? And not even a full 256MB of it for the OS?

[*]WinXP Home Edition. Good luck joining a domain with that.

[*]90-day warranty. Do we have to go over this one again, kids? :evil:

[*]40GB SATA drive. If I want to run a 40GB Snail Drive, I have a 40GB Seagate 7200.7 lying in a cardboard box here that I could use :roll:

[*]Total slots available are 1 PCIe x16, one PCIe x1, and two PCI slots. Right there I'm afraid this couldn't work for me just based on the fact it doesn't have enough PCI slots for my accessory cards.

So if your point is that Dell has a computer whose parts I couldn't buy separately for the same price, you might be correct (although I could go hunt up Hot Deals on individial parts if I felt like it). But what they're selling, I wouldn't have been interested in buying in the first place. Your A64 could hardly help but be a better system. What's your system specs btw, Ornery?

On this system you can upgrade the CPU for a small price, 1 year warranty $30, you can buy a gig of ram for under $80(newegg) and hd's are less than $.50 a gb that you can add to 3 empty slots. Upgrading the CPU, memory and gpu and you will have a capable gaming rig.

The average user will not outgrow this system for a while I bet these specs are better than what the majority of AT members have. This system is dirt cheap and Dell will be happy to deck it out for you or you can upgrade this un-upgradeable system by going through newegg either way you have the choice.

"19" LCD, but analog only. My 17.4" LCD has DVI and VGA, and the difference in quality is quite evident. I wouldn't buy a 19" analog LCD. "

1st a lot people can't tell the difference between dvi and LCD and 2nd your talking about a $500 system with an LCD aren't your expectation a bit high? What's next... this system is crappy because it doesn't have a Geforce 7800GTX, at some point you have to factor in the price.


Tom