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how many people died in the holocaust?
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slackerinabox
Lifer
I still am embarassed about what I don't know about a lot of things.. I was a product of the public school system - I never learned about the holocaust, the japanese occupation, the armenian genocide, the complicated issues in the mid east.. Our system is a terrible system that doesn't teach a thing.. My point is that our holocaust education is baed on the fact that there's at least one holocaust movie made every year.. it's pathetic but that's why we still know about it...
i completely agree with you, but i left the system before HS, so i don't know what i would have learned there. in any event, i really did wish i knew more about the japanese occupation, but i suspect i may never, because i get way too pissed off reading about what went on. i get more pissed off about it than other atrocities because of my heritage (these were my family members that suffered in there...) but i've talked with an armenian friend and she basically said the same thing about what muslims did to christians in armenia. what little we know of those two events is just so horrible that even though we wish we knew more so we could educate others, we just can't really bring ourselves to study it because it would get us homicidal.
slackerinabox
Lifer
Yep, and see how, initially at least, the japanese occupation interests/frustrates you because it directly affected you? That's the problem with us Americans.. We lack empathy.. We're not violently disgusted by attrocities in and of themselves but are infuriated if our friends or relatives are victims.. I usually block out all the horrors I hear on the news: "15,000 die in violent riots in Tanzania" "XXX Million more africans died from aids this year".. all of these numbers meant nothing to me because it didn't mean a thing to my life.. But 9-11 crushed me for months and years.... Why? Because it could have happened to me or my friend or my family.. It's selfish reasoning but true.. Don't get me wrong - I'm not singling you out.. It's just another reason why we're so uneducated - we just don't care....
slackerinabox
Lifer
True, but I do believe that many more europeans know a lot more about history and have far more empathy than us americans.. I'm not an apple pie basher nor do I love french bread ...
oh yes, american's are the only people that lack empathy.
apathy is a problem that isn't constrained by nationalities or ethnicity.
and the thing that infuriates me the most about the japanese attrocities/occupation in china/southeast asia is that they don't really acknowledge or teach what happened. many japanese today are clueless about what their country did during that era. the parallel is like having germans that deny the holocaust occured.
EMPshockwave82
Diamond Member
i remember hearing this as well... so 11 million total
10-11 million total...6 million Jews. 4-5 million christians, et al. were killed by hitler as well...sad that people continue to pass this over. Edited: as digital pointed out...it wasn't literally 4-5 million christians only...others are grouped into that number.
Actually, people gloss over a lot of genocide in world history...but hey, look who publishes our textbooks.
Approximately 60 million russians (mostly orthodox christians) were killed in the USSR under Lenin and Stalin between 1917 and 1953. Of course, Russia didn't own up to half this number because it is truely sickening but lot of historians, etc. are going through the numbers, digging up old reports, ectc. and finding more and more horrifying proof of atrocity after atrocity... and it's coming out to around 60 million, maybe more.
I might mention that, shocking as it may seem, the communist revolution was started largely in part by Jewish people (by race, not by faith) in Russia. The majority of the USSR's primary leaders during the time of Lenin and Stalin were Jewish by blood. At any rate, the USSR communist regime was not the fault of any one people.
Mao Tse-tung murdered as many as a 100 million of his own people in China (at least 65-75 million is documented with hard evidence).
Then there are the Cambodian killing fields of the Khmer Rouge.
600,000 killed in vile ways in Turkey in 1915.
The list of utter anihiliation goes on and on...
What's my point? The Holocaust was horrible, words cannot describe the evil of the Holocaust. But their have been worse mass killings both by number and by terror...why don't we take a moment to care about those events?!
Stalin starved 7 million urkranians in one fell swoop...needless to say, some cannibalism was practiced by the survivors as they also waited to eventually die.
The Khmer Rouge cut open the bowels of a given family's father while his family watched (near death from starvation) and forced his raw organs down the mouths of his wife and children...and then killed them as well, one by one. Then they woould piss and crap on the dead bodies and throw them to the other prisoners [who were starved and waiting to die] for food. Such terror, and worse, was practices widely.
I just wish certain people (a lot of them Jewish but not all, and hey, I'm part Jewish myself) would stop holding up the Holocaust as the ultimate, most horrible act of genocide ever and start being more vocal about the incredible misfortunes of others as well.
Actually, people gloss over a lot of genocide in world history...but hey, look who publishes our textbooks.
Approximately 60 million russians (mostly orthodox christians) were killed in the USSR under Lenin and Stalin between 1917 and 1953. Of course, Russia didn't own up to half this number because it is truely sickening but lot of historians, etc. are going through the numbers, digging up old reports, ectc. and finding more and more horrifying proof of atrocity after atrocity... and it's coming out to around 60 million, maybe more.
I might mention that, shocking as it may seem, the communist revolution was started largely in part by Jewish people (by race, not by faith) in Russia. The majority of the USSR's primary leaders during the time of Lenin and Stalin were Jewish by blood. At any rate, the USSR communist regime was not the fault of any one people.
Mao Tse-tung murdered as many as a 100 million of his own people in China (at least 65-75 million is documented with hard evidence).
Then there are the Cambodian killing fields of the Khmer Rouge.
600,000 killed in vile ways in Turkey in 1915.
The list of utter anihiliation goes on and on...
What's my point? The Holocaust was horrible, words cannot describe the evil of the Holocaust. But their have been worse mass killings both by number and by terror...why don't we take a moment to care about those events?!
Stalin starved 7 million urkranians in one fell swoop...needless to say, some cannibalism was practiced by the survivors as they also waited to eventually die.
The Khmer Rouge cut open the bowels of a given family's father while his family watched (near death from starvation) and forced his raw organs down the mouths of his wife and children...and then killed them as well, one by one. Then they woould piss and crap on the dead bodies and throw them to the other prisoners [who were starved and waiting to die] for food. Such terror, and worse, was practices widely.
I just wish certain people (a lot of them Jewish but not all, and hey, I'm part Jewish myself) would stop holding up the Holocaust as the ultimate, most horrible act of genocide ever and start being more vocal about the incredible misfortunes of others as well.
StageLeft
No Lifer
Jews are more vocal about it, and the world is more receptive to it because it was related to a big world war that much of the world engaged in. I realize stalin killed more, but was he just killing whomever, or really specialized with his killing? Hitler obviously wanted all of the jews gone, which would be a genocide (and more notable to the public because of that).
I think the close relationship to hitler/jews and WWII is a good reason why that is the most memorable mass murder in history to most people.
Lenin and Stalin targeted christians almost exclusively (remember that, at the time of the revolution, well over half of Russia was orthodox christian while a lesser number of those practiced faithfully)...60 million people in 35 years...the bulk of those peoples in two spurts. Lenin actually said several times that he wanted to wipe the christian religion and all it people from the USSR...he and Stalin chose to do it by extermination.
The turks killed 600,000 armenians (prodominantly christian) in a matter of months in 1915...actually, hitler used the worlds complacience (sp?) at this event to coax his generals into starting the holocaust.
the Khmer Rouge killed a million people out of a total population of 7 million.
The turks killed 600,000 armenians (prodominantly christian) in a matter of months in 1915...actually, hitler used the worlds complacience (sp?) at this event to coax his generals into starting the holocaust.
the Khmer Rouge killed a million people out of a total population of 7 million.
Everyone who's saying "Jews are vocal about it" ... "Jews can make movies about it" need to STFU.
The impact of the Holocaust for me is that it hits home.
The impact of the Holocaust for me is that it almost wiped out an entire race.
As long as the Jews have existed, they have faced opression, oh, excuse me, only until 1948.
People who couldn't defend themselves were killed needlessly, as the world watched.
Any other group of people could make movies about it, or voice their opinion about similar events in history.
The impact of the Holocaust for me is that it hits home.
The impact of the Holocaust for me is that it almost wiped out an entire race.
As long as the Jews have existed, they have faced opression, oh, excuse me, only until 1948.
People who couldn't defend themselves were killed needlessly, as the world watched.
Any other group of people could make movies about it, or voice their opinion about similar events in history.
Papagayo
Platinum Member
It was a Hoax..
I remember watching Phil Donahue Show (long time ago).. They were talking about the Holocaust. There is a Jewish person that was telling everyone that Holocaust did not happen. He even video taped the locations and tried to prove that it didn't happen.
People make mountains out of a moe hill.. I'm sure lot of people died, but not by millions..
I think it's stupid to have a memorial for the holocaust people in US for something that happened in Europe..
I remember watching Phil Donahue Show (long time ago).. They were talking about the Holocaust. There is a Jewish person that was telling everyone that Holocaust did not happen. He even video taped the locations and tried to prove that it didn't happen.
People make mountains out of a moe hill.. I'm sure lot of people died, but not by millions..
I think it's stupid to have a memorial for the holocaust people in US for something that happened in Europe..
Prosecuting heads of state for war crimes is a new thing, under the Geneva Convention heads of state are given immunity, but that isnt followed anymore as you pointed out with Milosevic, as well as a former Chile dictator, and now Saddam. There needs to be an updated Geneva Convention, as it is now its near worthless.
The whole revisionist ideas are frankly moronic. It is more than well documented. People did die by the millions, 11million to be exact. The holocaust did happen, but at the same time, Soviets were slaughtering people(as they did before and after the Holocaust), and Japan was also doing nasty things in China. The Soviets and Japanese misdeeds, and the 5million non jews, are just footnotes to the 6million jews that died, and I find that wrong. The 6million jews dying isnt anymore worthy of attention than the other millions and millions that died before during and after WWII.
I should hope no one really believes the holocaust was a hoax.
I personally have visited Eastern Europe, and while there, visited Auschwitz and Auschwitz II (Birkenau).
While Auschwitz had the capablity to kill, it was a concentration camp, with the ability to kill.
Birkenau was a death camp. For viewing the camp from a tower, run down as it is now, you can see the effeciency
in which they could unload victums from trains, and march them straight to their deaths.
Its frightening.
Now people might want to know why the Jewish population makes a big deal about it. Well approx 6 million died. Not to
mention how many others were still in concentration camps when the war ended. But what I find frightening is that
at the start of the war, they were not killing them. It was only when Germany started to lose WW2, did
they really go into killing in mass quantities. Shorten the time line, makes those numbers even more frightening.
Edit: Opps not finished
The fact people focus on the jewish population during the holocaust is that the Germans didn't kill 6 million of one
race and 5 of another. The other approx 5 million people that were killed, they were alot of different types of people.
But lets not forget that, what the jewish experience before they were rounded up in put into concentration and death camps.
They didnt' put catholics in ghettos, nor did they make gipsys where badges. And they didn't have a propoganda campaign blaming
them for the problems of Germany.
I personally have visited Eastern Europe, and while there, visited Auschwitz and Auschwitz II (Birkenau).
While Auschwitz had the capablity to kill, it was a concentration camp, with the ability to kill.
Birkenau was a death camp. For viewing the camp from a tower, run down as it is now, you can see the effeciency
in which they could unload victums from trains, and march them straight to their deaths.
Its frightening.
Now people might want to know why the Jewish population makes a big deal about it. Well approx 6 million died. Not to
mention how many others were still in concentration camps when the war ended. But what I find frightening is that
at the start of the war, they were not killing them. It was only when Germany started to lose WW2, did
they really go into killing in mass quantities. Shorten the time line, makes those numbers even more frightening.
Edit: Opps not finished
The fact people focus on the jewish population during the holocaust is that the Germans didn't kill 6 million of one
race and 5 of another. The other approx 5 million people that were killed, they were alot of different types of people.
But lets not forget that, what the jewish experience before they were rounded up in put into concentration and death camps.
They didnt' put catholics in ghettos, nor did they make gipsys where badges. And they didn't have a propoganda campaign blaming
them for the problems of Germany.
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