here it is... 
context, Jesus just cured a man that had been "sick" for 38 years
John 5:14-19
Afterward Jesus findeth him in the temple, and said unto him, Behold, thou art made whole: sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee. The man departed, and told the Jews that it was Jesus, which had made him whole. And therefore did the Jews persecute Jesus, and sought to slay him, because he had done these things on the sabbath day. But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work. Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God. Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.
context, Jesus just cured a man that had been "sick" for 38 yearsJohn 5:14-19
Afterward Jesus findeth him in the temple, and said unto him, Behold, thou art made whole: sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee. The man departed, and told the Jews that it was Jesus, which had made him whole. And therefore did the Jews persecute Jesus, and sought to slay him, because he had done these things on the sabbath day. But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work. Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God. Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.
You're saying that Christ broke a commandment and therefore sinned?? :Q
Christ was/is perfect. There is no way he could have sinned here on Earth, that would not have made him perfect.
I believe this is the quote you were looking for:
Mark 3:1-4 - And He entered the synagogue again, and a man was there who had a withered hand. So they watched Him closely, wwhether He would heal him on the Sabbath, so that they might accuse Him. And He said to the man who had the withered hand, "Step forward." The He said to them, "Is it lawful on the Sabbath to do good or to do evil, to save life or to kill?" But they kept silent.
Christ did not break the commandment by healing this man. Rather, He was doing good on the Sabbath by saving this man's hand. Re-read the 4th commandment and you can see that Christ is not breaking it.
What new sets of laws did Christ bring?
If you're talking about Christ making two "new commandments" I'm assuming these are it:
Mark 12:29-31 - Jesus answered him, "The first of all the commandments is: 'Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one. And you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind, and with all your strength,' This is the first commandment. And the second, like it, is this: 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.' There is no other commandment greater than these."
If you re-read the Ten Commandments, you will see that Commandments 1 through 4 explain how to "Love your God with all your heart, soul, mind, strength" while Commandments 5 through 10 explain how to love your "neighbor as yourself". Christ just summarized the Ten Commandments.
Matthew 5:17-19 - "Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets, I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven."
(any spelling mistakes are my fault)
I assure you that if Jesus were here today, and you were to ask him if he still wanted us to keep all 10 commandments, his answer would definetly be yes.
Anubis
No Lifer
i beleive it does. cause if it didnt then all of us who swat flies and havd hit things like birds and squirrls with our cars are fuked
never committed adultry, or murdered, or bore false witness, or had another god.... so, my magic # is 6
silverpig
Lifer
- Jul 29, 2001
- 27,703
- 12
- 81
Originally posted by: Yzzim
Originally posted by: silverpig
Basically 10 rules the christian god says you have to follow. Religious law if you like.
Personally, I think I'll take the life of fun loving sin topped off with a miraculous death bed repentence... just in case
Jews believe in the Old Testament - thus believing in the Ten Commandments as well. Not sure of the mormons, jehovah's witnesses, etc do as well...? I think they do.
Back before Christ came if you believed in God and broke one of His commandments, you had to sacrafice a lamb. Not just any lamb either, had to be the cream of your crop....one with any blemmish or anything, had to be near perfect. So you couldn't go take a lamb that had a broken leg that you were going to kill anyway...it had to actual mean something.
Still the christian god though.... never said it was exclusive
Besides, who's to say that every religion must describe a separate entity? Might all just be different ways of worshipping the same dude. But that's for another thread; one which I will probably stay out of.
How convenient that Jesus changed all the old laws except for the ones that made sense in the first place, although for most of the other ones there is no mention in the NT at all. As Jesus said he had come to confirm old laws rather than change them it would indicate that any law he did not specifically change would still be in place.
Of course that would mean some idiotic laws from the OT would also still apply, so we'll just ignore Jesus at that point and make up our own set of rules which he of course must have meant.
Is there any Christian group which actually lives by all the rules from the OT (as far as they were not specifically changed) and the NT? Or do you believe that the people who selected the rules that were picked out and the ones that were dropped were all guided by God himself?
Of course that would mean some idiotic laws from the OT would also still apply, so we'll just ignore Jesus at that point and make up our own set of rules which he of course must have meant.
Is there any Christian group which actually lives by all the rules from the OT (as far as they were not specifically changed) and the NT? Or do you believe that the people who selected the rules that were picked out and the ones that were dropped were all guided by God himself?
Originally posted by: GtPrOjEcTX
here it is...
John 5:14-19
Afterward Jesus findeth him in the temple, and said unto him, Behold, thou art made whole: sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee. The man departed, and told the Jews that it was Jesus, which had made him whole. And therefore did the Jews persecute Jesus, and sought to slay him, because he had done these things on the sabbath day. But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work. Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God. Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.
Jeff7
Lifer
- Jan 4, 2001
- 41,596
- 20
- 81
1) Technically, I don't think I've broken this, as I believe in no other gods.
2) Can't exactly figure out what the heck this one is trying to say. Make no likeness of anything Heavenly? Don't artists do that sometimes when they paint angels? Or is it just bad to worship it then?
3) Heh. Heh. Heh. Let me count the times.....the Windows calculator just crashed.
4) Sunday. Yeah, I remember it. We get paid $1-2 an hour extra when we work Sundays at Walmart.
5) Yes, I respect them.
6) Not kill what? People? I've not done that. Insects? Yes, many.
7) Adultery...well, the definition of adultery covers just thinking about it; never been married, hell, never even dated. Guess this doesn't apply to me then.
8) Ever used filesharing programs before? Of course, someone wrote something funny into PC World - (paraphrased, can't remember it exactly), libraries are cheating writers out of lots of money. People come in, read books, and never pay a cent to the writers.
9) I assume this means lying. Yes, I have done this, though I try to avoid it.
10) Yeah, I covet stuff about neighbors, namely, their higher incomes.
The 7 deadly sins were brought up; I find those to be quite amusing. People always are telling you to take pride in your work. They working for satan then? Gluttony - I see quite a few overweight preachers. Lust....that's what Babe Threads are for. Anger - yeah, we've all got this, like working in retail, listening to bad Christmas music all day long. Greed - I have cable internet. I want OC3. Sloth - the technical term here is probably "ergophobe" - one who fears working.
2) Can't exactly figure out what the heck this one is trying to say. Make no likeness of anything Heavenly? Don't artists do that sometimes when they paint angels? Or is it just bad to worship it then?
3) Heh. Heh. Heh. Let me count the times.....the Windows calculator just crashed.
4) Sunday. Yeah, I remember it. We get paid $1-2 an hour extra when we work Sundays at Walmart.
5) Yes, I respect them.
6) Not kill what? People? I've not done that. Insects? Yes, many.
7) Adultery...well, the definition of adultery covers just thinking about it; never been married, hell, never even dated. Guess this doesn't apply to me then.
8) Ever used filesharing programs before? Of course, someone wrote something funny into PC World - (paraphrased, can't remember it exactly), libraries are cheating writers out of lots of money. People come in, read books, and never pay a cent to the writers.
9) I assume this means lying. Yes, I have done this, though I try to avoid it.
10) Yeah, I covet stuff about neighbors, namely, their higher incomes.
The 7 deadly sins were brought up; I find those to be quite amusing. People always are telling you to take pride in your work. They working for satan then? Gluttony - I see quite a few overweight preachers. Lust....that's what Babe Threads are for.
Anger - yeah, we've all got this, like working in retail, listening to bad Christmas music all day long. Greed - I have cable internet. I want OC3. Sloth - the technical term here is probably "ergophobe" - one who fears working.When Christ came to Earth, he sought to bring us a New Convenant. I new, yet not so different way of being saved. Instead of us going through and sacraficing a lamb, Jesus came down and was crucified. Christ was the lamb of God. Whenever we sin we ask Christ for forgiveness and because he sacraficied himself for us, we are saved.....that is the New Covenant.
The Old Covenant is the whole Ceremonial Laws/Moses' Law. That explains the way life should have been lived back before Christ came.
Hmm.....does worshipping the porcelain god after a night of partying back in college count?
Think I'm in the clear on this one.
Guilty a thousand times over.
Right. Tell that one to my wife when she's demanding I mow the lawn on a Sunday.
No problems here....I was certainly not the world's worst child.
Check. No killing.
Check. Have never and would never cheat on my wife.
Talk to the RIAA about this one...
Innocent of this one.
Sadly, I'm guilty as hell of this one. We have some friends who are quite wealthy and I'll admit it bugs me when we're at their house and I'm looking at the new BMW, the new Range Rover, the new bigass TV, all the new furniture, and all the other stuff I can't afford. It's limited to material stuff tho...his wife and ass aren't on my covet list.
Grand total: 4 out of ten.
Originally posted by: GtPrOjEcTX
Originally posted by: GtPrOjEcTX
here it is...
John 5:14-19
Afterward Jesus findeth him in the temple, and said unto him, Behold, thou art made whole: sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee. The man departed, and told the Jews that it was Jesus, which had made him whole. And therefore did the Jews persecute Jesus, and sought to slay him, because he had done these things on the sabbath day. But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work. Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God. Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.
Ok, so you're going to take one verse out of the bible and try and tell me that with this one verse the whole Old Testament is thrown out of the window? Find me 5 or 10 and I'll believe you....however, it's going to take more then one verse to say that the Ten Commandments (which were written by God himself) are no longer in effect.
The Jews saw two things happening - both an extraordinary miracle happening and, what they thought, Christ breaking the 4th Commandment. Because the Jews were so stuck on tradition and they were so legalistic at that time (which Jesus wished to correct), they cocentrated on the broken rule instead of this supernatural healing.
Do you think God is going to stop "working" on the Sabbath? Nature would fall into chaos and sin would overrun the world. There are mircales happening each and every single day, even on the Sabbath...however, these are for good and they draw us closer to God.
Genesis 2:2 - And on the seventh day God ended His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done.
God does indeed rest on the seventh day, but do you think that means that God stops doing good for us? Certainly not! Christ wanted to teach that when you have the opportunity to good, it should not be ignored....even on the Sabbath.
This following verse makes it very clear that Christ did indeed keep the Sabbath, and healing on the Sabbath is certainly not breaking the Fourth Commandment.
Matthew 12:10-12 - And behold, there was a man who had a withered hand. And they asked Him, saying, "Is it lawful to heal on the Sabbath?" - that they might accuse Him. (they being the Pharisees) Then He said to them, "What man is there among you who has one sheep, and if it falls into a pit on the Sabbath, will not lay hold of it and lift it out? Of how much more value then is a man than a sheep? Therefore it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath."
Also, to add a little bit to that, the Jews were looking for every single reason to persecute Christ they could find. Jesus was teaching against their traidition which they have held up for centuries. These traditions, however, became more important then God and what the Bible really taught.
Yzzim -
If indeed the old law is in effect, well then it certainly is not in effect for me. I'll summarize the verses stated below.
The Ten Commands were given only to Israel
Deuteronomy 4:1,44,45 - The Ten Commands were given to the children of Israel after they came out of Egypt.
Deuteronomy 5:1,6 - Moses spoke to Israel and gave them the Ten Commands to observe. God brought them out of the land of Egypt.
Exodus 34:27,28 - The Lord made a covenant with Israel writing on tablets the words of the covenant, the Ten Commandments.
1 Kings 8:9,21 - The two tablets of stone contain the covenant the Lord made with Israel, when they came out of the land of Egypt.
Deuteronomy 4:7-13 - No other nation had such a great law as the Ten Commandments.
The Sabbath was given only to Israel.
Deuteronomy 5:15 - Israel (v1) was a slave in the land of Egypt, God brought them out and commanded them to keep the Sabbath day.
Exodus 31:13,16,17 - The sabbath was a sign between God and Israel like circumcision was (Gen. 17; Rom. 4:11). How could it have been a sign between God and Israel if He had given the same law to other nations too? Would a ring be a sign of a man's special relationship with his wife, if he gave similar rings to many other women?
Some points in the new testament to say that laws in the old testament are no longer needed and there are new ones to replace them.
Galatians 5:1-6
Stand firm therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free, and don't be entangled again with a yoke of bondage. Behold, I, Paul, tell you that if you receive circumcision, Christ will profit you nothing. Yes, I testify again to every man who receives circumcision, that he is a debtor to do the whole law. You are alienated from Christ, you desire to be justified by the law. You have fallen away from grace. For we, through the Spirit, by faith wait for the hope of righteousness. For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision amounts to anything, nor uncircumcision, but faith working through love.
Circumsion was required for men under the Old law. Yet, here it says it doesn't matter if men are circumcised or not, just that they show their faith by working for him though his love.
Romans 7:1-6
Or don't you know, brothers (for I speak to men who know the law), that the law has dominion over a man for as long as he lives? For the woman that has a husband is bound by law to the husband while he lives, but if the husband dies, she is discharged from the law of the husband. So then if, while the husband lives, she is joined to another man, she would be called an adulteress. But if the husband dies, she is free from the law, so that she is no adulteress, though she is joined to another man. Therefore, my brothers, you also were made dead to the law through the body of Christ, that you would be joined to another, to him who was raised from the dead, that we might bring forth fruit to God. For when we were in the flesh, the sinful passions which were through the law, worked in our members to bring forth fruit to death. But now we have been discharged from the law, having died to that in which we were held; so that we serve in newness of the spirit, and not in oldness of the letter.
Just as the woman could then be joined to a different man, we are now joined to Christ. We are not to follow both the Old Testament and the law of Christ at the same time. To do so would be spiritual adultery like the woman having two husbands at once! We have a different law, just as the woman has "another man."
If indeed the old law is in effect, well then it certainly is not in effect for me. I'll summarize the verses stated below.
The Ten Commands were given only to Israel
Deuteronomy 4:1,44,45 - The Ten Commands were given to the children of Israel after they came out of Egypt.
Deuteronomy 5:1,6 - Moses spoke to Israel and gave them the Ten Commands to observe. God brought them out of the land of Egypt.
Exodus 34:27,28 - The Lord made a covenant with Israel writing on tablets the words of the covenant, the Ten Commandments.
1 Kings 8:9,21 - The two tablets of stone contain the covenant the Lord made with Israel, when they came out of the land of Egypt.
Deuteronomy 4:7-13 - No other nation had such a great law as the Ten Commandments.
The Sabbath was given only to Israel.
Deuteronomy 5:15 - Israel (v1) was a slave in the land of Egypt, God brought them out and commanded them to keep the Sabbath day.
Exodus 31:13,16,17 - The sabbath was a sign between God and Israel like circumcision was (Gen. 17; Rom. 4:11). How could it have been a sign between God and Israel if He had given the same law to other nations too? Would a ring be a sign of a man's special relationship with his wife, if he gave similar rings to many other women?
Some points in the new testament to say that laws in the old testament are no longer needed and there are new ones to replace them.
Galatians 5:1-6
Stand firm therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free, and don't be entangled again with a yoke of bondage. Behold, I, Paul, tell you that if you receive circumcision, Christ will profit you nothing. Yes, I testify again to every man who receives circumcision, that he is a debtor to do the whole law. You are alienated from Christ, you desire to be justified by the law. You have fallen away from grace. For we, through the Spirit, by faith wait for the hope of righteousness. For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision amounts to anything, nor uncircumcision, but faith working through love.
Circumsion was required for men under the Old law. Yet, here it says it doesn't matter if men are circumcised or not, just that they show their faith by working for him though his love.
Romans 7:1-6
Or don't you know, brothers (for I speak to men who know the law), that the law has dominion over a man for as long as he lives? For the woman that has a husband is bound by law to the husband while he lives, but if the husband dies, she is discharged from the law of the husband. So then if, while the husband lives, she is joined to another man, she would be called an adulteress. But if the husband dies, she is free from the law, so that she is no adulteress, though she is joined to another man. Therefore, my brothers, you also were made dead to the law through the body of Christ, that you would be joined to another, to him who was raised from the dead, that we might bring forth fruit to God. For when we were in the flesh, the sinful passions which were through the law, worked in our members to bring forth fruit to death. But now we have been discharged from the law, having died to that in which we were held; so that we serve in newness of the spirit, and not in oldness of the letter.
Just as the woman could then be joined to a different man, we are now joined to Christ. We are not to follow both the Old Testament and the law of Christ at the same time. To do so would be spiritual adultery like the woman having two husbands at once! We have a different law, just as the woman has "another man."
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