How many here would "opt out" of social security if they could?

[Mill]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Mill
Someone who makes 50k a year and didn't plan for their retirement is unfortunate and STUPID. A child born into a family without health care is poor, and had no say in his "fortune." A lot of people make "mistakes" and are labeled as unfortunate, but some would say they dug their own grave.

Of course there are some who come into a nice little windfall due to an unfortunate event and have trustees looking over their financial future.

If you want to bring up the fact that my father died in an accident I was young that is fine, but don't do it in a way that is implicit. I've not a single thing to be ashamed of in that segment of my life, and it is not my fault that he passed away. Be explicit, bitch about it, and then tell me I should feel "lucky" that he is dead. If you wanted to bring it up then do so without trying to hide it. I don't have trustees looking over my financial future. I make choices on what to buy/sell if I want. Oddly enough, your personal attack on me had nothing to do with this thread. Don't even bring up me saying things about Dave, because he broadcasts his personal life on here on a constant basis, and then acts like a quack. I've made relatively few posts about my father's death, so for you to bring it up in a political arena in which it has no bearing it pretty bastardly on your part. I figured you were a bigger man than that, but obviously you're an immature jerk.


I was agreeing with umbrella39 that the poor and some of the unfortunate should be taken care of. Someone born into abject poverty without a chance should be a beneficiary of SS, but someone who blows their lump sum retirement on penny stock doesn't deserve the same pity. So for whatever reason you thought my father's death was relevant here -- I'll let you explain it.

So, Red Dawn, how was it reverent here? Someone's private personal finances have little to do with opposition or support for SS Reform. You've got people like BaliBabyDoc arguing against it, and I doubt he is starving, and I'm sure you've got some of the less fortunate arguing for private accounts. So, again, how was my father's death relevant here? Was it supposed to be some sneaky attack by you, or is some type of twisted fvcking envy. Either way, it was a bastard thing to do and something I'd expect from more of a coward. I didn't figure you for a coward, but I guess looks can be deceiving.

 

[Mill]

Originally posted by: Mill

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Of course there are some who come into a nice little windfall

Ah, yes, it was a nice little windfall, Red Dawn. It was so nice that I woke up on December 11th, 1991 with a father, and then went to bed that night without one. It was so nice of him to die like that. Oh, and that little windfall it added color and fun to his death. That's why I was dancing and throwing money up in the air when I was EIGHT FVCKING YEARS OLD. That's right, I tap-danced on his grave, and then laughed hilariously while thinking of that nice little windfall.

You can say what you want, but I worked this entire summer for a fairly low wage and I did everything from cleaning sh!t to helping out in other departments that weren't even close to being IT related. I did that, and I'm proud of it. I've worked retail, I've worked for a law firm, and I've worked construction. I didn't grow up with a silverspoon in my mouth, so you take that notion and shove it in your ass.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: Mill

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Mill
Someone who makes 50k a year and didn't plan for their retirement is unfortunate and STUPID. A child born into a family without health care is poor, and had no say in his "fortune." A lot of people make "mistakes" and are labeled as unfortunate, but some would say they dug their own grave.

Of course there are some who come into a nice little windfall due to an unfortunate event and have trustees looking over their financial future.

If you want to bring up the fact that my father died in an accident I was young that is fine, but don't do it in a way that is implicit. I've not a single thing to be ashamed of in that segment of my life, and it is not my fault that he passed away. Be explicit, bitch about it, and then tell me I should feel "lucky" that he is dead. If you wanted to bring it up then do so without trying to hide it. I don't have trustees looking over my financial future. I make choices on what to buy/sell if I want. Oddly enough, your personal attack on me had nothing to do with this thread. Don't even bring up me saying things about Dave, because he broadcasts his personal life on here on a constant basis, and then acts like a quack. I've made relatively few posts about my father's death, so for you to bring it up in a political arena in which it has no bearing it pretty bastardly on your part. I figured you were a bigger man than that, but obviously you're an immature jerk.


I was agreeing with umbrella39 that the poor and some of the unfortunate should be taken care of. Someone born into abject poverty without a chance should be a beneficiary of SS, but someone who blows their lump sum retirement on penny stock doesn't deserve the same pity. So for whatever reason you thought my father's death was relevant here -- I'll let you explain it.

So, Red Dawn, how was it reverent here? Someone's private personal finances have little to do with opposition or support for SS Reform. You've got people like BaliBabyDoc arguing against it, and I doubt he is starving, and I'm sure you've got some of the less fortunate arguing for private accounts. So, again, how was my father's death relevant here? Was it supposed to be some sneaky attack by you, or is some type of twisted fvcking envy. Either way, it was a bastard thing to do and something I'd expect from more of a coward. I didn't figure you for a coward, but I guess looks can be deceiving.

I brought it up because it helps others determine your perspective. Now if you actually had to work for your money and barely scraped by you might have a different POV. But since you are set for life you won't have to worry about your financial future. It's easy to be cavalier about SS when you really haven't a thing to worry about.

P.S. There's no need to feel guilty about your situation, you lost more than you gained.

 

[Mill]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Mill

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Mill
Someone who makes 50k a year and didn't plan for their retirement is unfortunate and STUPID. A child born into a family without health care is poor, and had no say in his "fortune." A lot of people make "mistakes" and are labeled as unfortunate, but some would say they dug their own grave.

Of course there are some who come into a nice little windfall due to an unfortunate event and have trustees looking over their financial future.

If you want to bring up the fact that my father died in an accident I was young that is fine, but don't do it in a way that is implicit. I've not a single thing to be ashamed of in that segment of my life, and it is not my fault that he passed away. Be explicit, bitch about it, and then tell me I should feel "lucky" that he is dead. If you wanted to bring it up then do so without trying to hide it. I don't have trustees looking over my financial future. I make choices on what to buy/sell if I want. Oddly enough, your personal attack on me had nothing to do with this thread. Don't even bring up me saying things about Dave, because he broadcasts his personal life on here on a constant basis, and then acts like a quack. I've made relatively few posts about my father's death, so for you to bring it up in a political arena in which it has no bearing it pretty bastardly on your part. I figured you were a bigger man than that, but obviously you're an immature jerk.


I was agreeing with umbrella39 that the poor and some of the unfortunate should be taken care of. Someone born into abject poverty without a chance should be a beneficiary of SS, but someone who blows their lump sum retirement on penny stock doesn't deserve the same pity. So for whatever reason you thought my father's death was relevant here -- I'll let you explain it.

So, Red Dawn, how was it reverent here? Someone's private personal finances have little to do with opposition or support for SS Reform. You've got people like BaliBabyDoc arguing against it, and I doubt he is starving, and I'm sure you've got some of the less fortunate arguing for private accounts. So, again, how was my father's death relevant here? Was it supposed to be some sneaky attack by you, or is some type of twisted fvcking envy. Either way, it was a bastard thing to do and something I'd expect from more of a coward. I didn't figure you for a coward, but I guess looks can be deceiving.

I brought it up because it helps others determine your perspective. Now if you actually had to work for your money and barely scraped by you might have a different POV. But since you are set for life you won't have to worry about your financial future. It's easy to be cavalier about SS when you really haven't a thing to worry about.

P.S. There's no need to feel guilty about your situation, you lost more than you gained.

That is your OPINION that I haven't worked for money. I HAVE. I've had numerous jobs, I've handled packages, worked for a law firm, did IT for several companies, worked retail, worked construction, etc. And if I wanted it brought up, I'd have brought it up. It wasn't your goddamned right to do so. I'm not being cavalier about SS, how the fvck am I doing that? Everything I've posted about it said that those who paid into it need to be paid. I've never said to leave anyone behind besides someone who made horrible decisions and threw their life away by never putting money aside for retirement. How am I being cavalier about it? By researching it and taking the time to painstakingly calculate how things would work out for an investor? By saying the Boomers should get what they paid it? If you me it was because I said your generation didn't have sex enough, then you should certainly note the emoticon that showed it was tongue-in-cheek. It is your OPINION and you FEEL That I haven't worked for what I have. It isn't your business to bring up personal information that has been disclosed to you or others, nor does my perspective even have to be a part of this. You haven't disclosed your personal finances, charrison hasn't, neither has TallBill, umbrella39, or any of the other people who have been talking and debating in SS threads. You did it to be a jerk, plain and simple.

There's no need to feel guilty about your situation, you lost more than you gained.[/

Well, of course. Money means nothing when you can't live your life with your loved ones. That was evident from the very beginning of my teenage years.

you really haven't a thing to worry about

You don't know how much I have or what I have it in, so it is your perspective that I have it "made." Perhaps I decide to open a business and it fails, perhaps the market tanks, or perhaps I've realized that money doesn't mean crap when it comes to "making" it. Making it is when you've got a family, friends, and peace and quiet. That's all "making" it is.

 

[Mill]

Originally posted by: umbrella39

Originally posted by: daniel1113

Originally posted by: Mill
Someone who makes 50k a year and didn't plan for their retirement is unforunate and STUPID. A child born into a family without healthcare is poor, and had no say in his "fortune." A lot of people make "mistakes" and are labeled as unforunate, but some would say they dug their own grave.

I'd say that is a very large number of SS recipients.

The last figure I heard on this is the it is a 25-75 split. 75% of medicaid recipients have NO income whatsoever. Only 25% are working Americans who don't make enough or aren't offered health care where they work. Who in your opinions should we look out more for? My answer might surprise you.

Edit: Oh, I think you were replying to the didn't plan people, not the healthcare part of his post. Nvm.

Well, a lot of people grew up when SS was the "thing" it had worked for the prior generation and no one had any idea that the increase in population wouldn't continue. IF someone paid into SS, then they should get what they expected in return. After a certain point, however, people should start having the ability to have private accounts. Since they are limited to options in the Federal Thrift Savings Plan, I'd say the risk is very minimal. But hey, it is optional, so if they go put all their money in the I fund and lose it, then tough crap. They get their extremely reduced SS benefits and thats it. Everyone, should be planning for their retirment, though(if they can afford it of course) and aleady have an IRA. This will just divert more taxes that can have a higher rate of return.

Who do you think we should look out for more?

 

[Red Dawn]

To be perfectly honest I had to mull over whether I was going to post that.I thought I had worded it so you wouldn't flip out. On second thought maybe it was wrong of me to do. I'm not going to justify what I did, I will only offer my apology. I am sorry.

 

[ChunkiMunki]

what happens if you "opt out" , then suffer a disabilty, accident, or natural disaster, and can't work or save for your personal SS account? Go to the government and say "now I would like to "opt-in" ?? SS is the platform for all my other investments to pile onto, a guaranteed minumum benefit for all Americans. It's a good program ruined by our elected officials, shame on us.

 

[mwtgg]

What a cheapshot mentioning Mill's father. I thought you were better than that, Red. Apparently I was wrong.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: mwtgg
What a cheapshot mentioning Mill's father. I thought you were better than that, Red. Apparently I was wrong.

If I had actually mentioned his father it would have been but if you read my original post you'll see that I didn't so you weren't wrong. What was wrong of me though and I'll readily admit it is bringing up his financial situation. He's right about it being nobodies business.

 

[Mill]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
To be perfectly honest I had to mull over whether I was going to post that.I thought I had worded it so you wouldn't flip out. On second thought maybe it was wrong of me to do. I'm not going to justify what I did, I will only offer my apology. I am sorry.

I'm not trying to flip-out over it. In fact, I've limited my profanity and slander back toward you. You've got PMs(at least to me) disabled, so I couldn't tell you I felt it was a low-blow. It doesn't matter, I'm not going to hold a grudge over it, I just didn't expect to see that coming from you.

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: ChunkiMunki
what happens if you "opt out" , then suffer a disabilty, accident, or natural disaster, and can't work or save for your personal SS account? Go to the government and say "now I would like to "opt-in" ?? SS is the platform for all my other investments to pile onto, a guaranteed minumum benefit for all Americans. It's a good program ruined by our elected officials, shame on us.

the disability portion of SS is handled seperatly from the the retirment portion. This is a non issue.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: Mill

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
To be perfectly honest I had to mull over whether I was going to post that.I thought I had worded it so you wouldn't flip out. On second thought maybe it was wrong of me to do. I'm not going to justify what I did, I will only offer my apology. I am sorry.

I'm not trying to flip-out over it. In fact, I've limited my profanity and slander back toward you. You've got PMs(at least to me) disabled, so I couldn't tell you I felt it was a low-blow. It doesn't matter, I'm not going to hold a grudge over it, I just didn't expect to see that coming from you.

It was more a case of bad judgement on my part than it was anything else.

 

[Riprorin]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Riprorin

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Riprorin

Originally posted by: Engineer

Originally posted by: Riprorin

Why should money be confiscated from my paycheck against my will to support people that can't?

The same goes for almost every program in the government. Why should I have money comfiscated in the form of taxes to pay for something that I don't want? The goverment is a money eating machine (printing too) and uses much of the pork to "buy" the vote to continue to stay (increase) in power. While I agree that I want my money to invest the way I see fit, I also understand that there are many who won't have (some by choice) the money or attitude to save for their own retirement.

However, that being said, part of the problem is that it's too easy to get disability retirement (SSI), especially in certain regions of the country (Eastern Kentucky and Western West Virginia). People on disablity SSI who are in their 20's and go four wheeling 3 times a week is a joke!!! (But that's another argument altogether).

Add the fact that there would always be people WHO absolutely will not save for retirement on their own no matter how much money they have. To the ones who are capable and just don't do it, I feel no pity in letting them fend for themselves in old age (again, not talking about people who aren't capable to save because of low income, etc).

Since when is retirement a birthright?

If you have a low income, I guess I you just have to keep on working.

And if they can't I guess you believe it's ok to just live in utter destitude and despair although they had paid their whole lives into SS.

I'm not sure what you mean by "utter destitude and despair". The poorest of the poor in this country have it better than most in other countries in the world.

Specifically, what standard of living do you think the government gurantee?

Without any income their standard of living would be third world. As for standard of living, the SS they get now doesn't enable them to live large, just get by. That's why many have also saved for retirement. Hell when I retire my SS would probably just cover my prescriptions the way the cost of drugs is skyrocketing.

Maybe the cost of Viagara will come down when you're retirement age?

If the gov't didn't take care of people who abuse themselves, they would probably make a better effort to get and stay in shape.

 

[Engineer]

Originally posted by: Riprorin

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Riprorin

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Riprorin

Originally posted by: Engineer

Originally posted by: Riprorin

Why should money be confiscated from my paycheck against my will to support people that can't?

The same goes for almost every program in the government. Why should I have money comfiscated in the form of taxes to pay for something that I don't want? The goverment is a money eating machine (printing too) and uses much of the pork to "buy" the vote to continue to stay (increase) in power. While I agree that I want my money to invest the way I see fit, I also understand that there are many who won't have (some by choice) the money or attitude to save for their own retirement.

However, that being said, part of the problem is that it's too easy to get disability retirement (SSI), especially in certain regions of the country (Eastern Kentucky and Western West Virginia). People on disablity SSI who are in their 20's and go four wheeling 3 times a week is a joke!!! (But that's another argument altogether).

Add the fact that there would always be people WHO absolutely will not save for retirement on their own no matter how much money they have. To the ones who are capable and just don't do it, I feel no pity in letting them fend for themselves in old age (again, not talking about people who aren't capable to save because of low income, etc).

Since when is retirement a birthright?

If you have a low income, I guess I you just have to keep on working.

And if they can't I guess you believe it's ok to just live in utter destitude and despair although they had paid their whole lives into SS.

I'm not sure what you mean by "utter destitude and despair". The poorest of the poor in this country have it better than most in other countries in the world.

Specifically, what standard of living do you think the government gurantee?

Without any income their standard of living would be third world. As for standard of living, the SS they get now doesn't enable them to live large, just get by. That's why many have also saved for retirement. Hell when I retire my SS would probably just cover my prescriptions the way the cost of drugs is skyrocketing.

Maybe the cost of Viagara will come down when you're retirement age?

If the gov't didn't take care of people who abuse themselves, they would probably make a better effort to get and stay in shape.

Nah, it's now being covered by Medicare. Government spends millions on arthritus medication to get the stiffness out and then spends 500 million trying to put the stiffness back.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: Riprorin

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Without any income their standard of living would be third world. As for standard of living, the SS they get now doesn't enable them to live large, just get by. That's why many have also saved for retirement. Hell when I retire my SS would probably just cover my prescriptions the way the cost of drugs is skyrocketing.

Maybe the cost of Viagara will come down when you're retirement age?

And Chapstick will be free by the time you reach it.

If the gov't didn't take care of people who abuse themselves, they would probably make a better effort to get and stay in shape.

Explain that if you will, I'm not sure what you mean.

 

[Riprorin]

Viagara is covered by Medicare? You have to be kidding.

Zero meds for me, but I take vitamins and supplements, I work out daily and I don't eat crap.

Supplements Can Save Billions in Health Care Costs

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: Riprorin
Viagara is covered by Medicare? You have to be kidding.

Zero meds for me, but I take vitamins and supplements, I work out daily and I don't eat crap.

Supplements Can Save Billions in Health Care Costs

Join the club (the Health Club that is). Eating the rights foods can save billions spent on supplements. But that's a different topic.

Also keep in mind that Vitamins, Supplements and a Healthy Diet aren't cheap.

 

[daniel1113]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Eating the rights foods can save billions spent on supplements. But that's a different topic.

:thumbsup:

 

[Riprorin]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Riprorin
Viagara is covered by Medicare? You have to be kidding.

Zero meds for me, but I take vitamins and supplements, I work out daily and I don't eat crap.

Supplements Can Save Billions in Health Care Costs

Join the club (the Health Club that is). Eating the rights foods can save billions spent on supplements. But that's a different topic.

Also keep in mind that Vitamins, Supplements and a Healthy Diet aren't cheap.

Two things:

Firstly, our soil has been depleted by using inorganic fertilizer rather than biologically active compost. Essential elements are also depleted from many soils by overfarming, acid rain, and geological forces. Further, processing (baking, boling, microwaving) destroys 80 - 95% of the macronutrients originally present in the food we eat. If you think that you can get all of the nutrients you need from food you eat, you're wrong. Even the traditional medical community recommends that everyone take a multi-vitamin. Are vitamins and supplements cheap? Not exactly, but prescription drugs and health care is a lot more expensive. I buy everything at Vitamin World for 40 - 50% off and probably spend a few hundred dollars a year. That's cheap insurance as far as I'm concerned.

Secondly, the profit margins within the food industry are are highest for processed, packaged foods. They are lowest for fresh produce, meat, fish, eggs, and milk. Anyone who says you can't eat healthful foods on a budget hasn't tried.

Take Multivitamins Urges AMA

"Even people who eat five daily servings of fruits and vegetables may not get enough of certain vitamins for optimum health, Fletcher said. Most people, for instance, cannot get the healthiest levels of folate and vitamins D and E from recommended diets, he said."

 

[Engineer]

Originally posted by: Riprorin
Viagara is covered by Medicare? You have to be kidding.

No, I'm not kidding.

 

[Riprorin]

Also, consider this:

Almost 80 percent of Americans do not eat at least five helpings of fruits and vegetables a day, the recommended minimum amount believed to provide sufficient essential nutrients. Humans do not make their own vitamins, except for some vitamin D, and they must get them from an outside source to prevent metabolic disorders.

Take multivitamins, AMA urges in policy reversal

 

[Riprorin]

Originally posted by: Engineer

Originally posted by: Riprorin
Viagara is covered by Medicare? You have to be kidding.

No, I'm not kidding.

"And like those other drugs, prescriptions for Pfizer Inc.'s Viagra will be tightly controlled. The law, which takes effect Jan. 1 at a cost of more than $500 billion over a decade, says Viagra can be prescribed only when medically necessary, and in limited quantities."

I'm wondering when it would be "medically necessary".

$500 billion for Viagara is outrageous.

 

[Stunt]

Originally posted by: Riprorin

Originally posted by: Engineer

Originally posted by: Riprorin
Viagara is covered by Medicare? You have to be kidding.

No, I'm not kidding.

"And like those other drugs, prescriptions for Pfizer Inc.'s Viagra will be tightly controlled. The law, which takes effect Jan. 1 at a cost of more than $500 billion over a decade, says Viagra can be prescribed only when medically necessary, and in limited quantities."

I'm wondering when it would be "medically necessary".

$500 billion for Viagara is outrageous.

i'm thinking when they cant get it up

but women sometimes use, this would prolly be not medically necessary.

Gotta love your beloved Bush Admin with morals eh?

big gov't and sex for all!

 

[Riprorin]

Originally posted by: Stunt

Originally posted by: Riprorin

Originally posted by: Engineer

Originally posted by: Riprorin
Viagara is covered by Medicare? You have to be kidding.

No, I'm not kidding.

"And like those other drugs, prescriptions for Pfizer Inc.'s Viagra will be tightly controlled. The law, which takes effect Jan. 1 at a cost of more than $500 billion over a decade, says Viagra can be prescribed only when medically necessary, and in limited quantities."

I'm wondering when it would be "medically necessary".

$500 billion for Viagara is outrageous.

i'm thinking when they cant get it up

but women sometimes use, this would prolly be not medically necessary.

Gotta love your beloved Bush Admin with morals eh?

big gov't and sex for all!

"The law says if it's an (Food and Drug Administration (news - web sites))-approved drug and it is medically necessary, it has to be covered," said Gary Karr, spokesman for the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services, which administers the health insurance program for older Americans.

The law needs to be tweaked.