How many are getting an Apple watch?

[dawheat]

That can come later -- I'd rather see a company nail the basics first.

And that's really where I think the Apple watch will, on average, not be the Apple-type experience that their consumers have gotten accustomed to. For the first time in recent history, it may create not unhappiness but not satisfaction either. Whether you're an Apple fan or not, it's hard to argue that their products in general serve their purpose very well and you can't criticize anyone using their products - whether it be a mac, phone, or tablet (all 3 are in my household).

I've used 5 smart watches including the Pebble and most of Samsung's offerings over the years. I've moved away from the Pebble since the e-ink display is really low rent in this day and age and currently use the Gear Fit even though it's far more limited than the bigger Gear watches.

The reason? I can go 3 days without charging it and it does most of the necessary functions (time, notifications, alerts/reminders, pedometer, and media player control). I remember using the first gen Gear which could barely get over a day. There was nothing more frustrating than forgetting to charge it (for so many reasons that happen), and realizing you have a paper weight until the next day. Part of it is that I normally put on my watch as I'm out the door so I don't have the extra 30 minutes to wait for it to charge.

Honestly this may be like the early smartphone days where they only option was to buy additional cables and have one at home and work.

Besides smartwatches not being for everyone (unlike smartphones), I really do think a decent number of folks, especially people like the millennials at my company who constantly forget to charge their phones since they get home late, normally after a few drinks, are going to constantly be irritated at this. For phones it's a non-issue today b/c there are cables everywhere you go. But the first year or two for smart watches is going to be bumpy.

 

[blairharrington]

Honestly this may be like the early smartphone days where they only option was to buy additional cables and have one at home and work.

Besides smartwatches not being for everyone (unlike smartphones), I really do think a decent number of folks, especially people like the millennials at my company who constantly forget to charge their phones since they get home late, normally after a few drinks, are going to constantly be irritated at this. For phones it's a non-issue today b/c there are cables everywhere you go. But the first year or two for smart watches is going to be bumpy.

If people need to remove the Watch and charge it during the day, this won't work. People will want it to last all day and hopefully night too. Taking the Watch off to charge during the day won't jive for most of us. This isn't like a phone where you can simply remove it from your pocket and plug it in. (Or carry around an external battery, etc.)

I also find it odd that millennials at your office have problems remembering to charge their phones at night. Even at my most tipsy I've never forgotten to simply dock my phone on my nightstand before bed.

 

[dawheat]

If people need to remove the Watch and charge it during the day, this won't work. People will want it to last all day and hopefully night too. Taking the Watch off to charge during the day won't jive for most of us. This isn't like a phone where you can simply remove it from your pocket and plug it in. (Or carry around an external battery, etc.)

I also find it odd that millennials at your office have problems remembering to charge their phones at night. Even at my most tipsy I've never forgotten to simply dock my phone on my nightstand before bed.

Same here, but I'm talking about kids a year or two out of school. I'd say everyone of them has their phone close to die at work a couple times a week. But non-issue with the plethora of cables.

 

[blairharrington]

Same here, but I'm talking about kids a year or two out of school. I'd say everyone of them has their phone close to die at work a couple times a week. But non-issue with the plethora of cables.

Like I said before, consumers will not accept taking the watch off during the day to charge it. Especially at work.

I'm really not too concerned about battery life with the Watch. My guess is it will last you a day with 'normal' usage. I think most people will accept having to recharge it nightly. The bigger issue is does the Watch justify a purchase.

 

[Commodus]

And that's really where I think the Apple watch will, on average, not be the Apple-type experience that their consumers have gotten accustomed to. For the first time in recent history, it may create not unhappiness but not satisfaction either. Whether you're an Apple fan or not, it's hard to argue that their products in general serve their purpose very well and you can't criticize anyone using their products - whether it be a mac, phone, or tablet (all 3 are in my household).

I've used 5 smart watches including the Pebble and most of Samsung's offerings over the years. I've moved away from the Pebble since the e-ink display is really low rent in this day and age and currently use the Gear Fit even though it's far more limited than the bigger Gear watches.

The reason? I can go 3 days without charging it and it does most of the necessary functions (time, notifications, alerts/reminders, pedometer, and media player control). I remember using the first gen Gear which could barely get over a day. There was nothing more frustrating than forgetting to charge it (for so many reasons that happen), and realizing you have a paper weight until the next day. Part of it is that I normally put on my watch as I'm out the door so I don't have the extra 30 minutes to wait for it to charge.

Honestly this may be like the early smartphone days where they only option was to buy additional cables and have one at home and work.

Besides smartwatches not being for everyone (unlike smartphones), I really do think a decent number of folks, especially people like the millennials at my company who constantly forget to charge their phones since they get home late, normally after a few drinks, are going to constantly be irritated at this. For phones it's a non-issue today b/c there are cables everywhere you go. But the first year or two for smart watches is going to be bumpy.

I could see it delivering satisfaction, if just because I'm hearing good things about the materials and interface from those who've used it. I just think it'll be patently obvious that you're a first-gen owner. Thank goodness it has inductive charging. The one common thing that drives me nuts with current smartwatches is a tendency toward cradles and cables... the last thing I want to do (and probably a lot of other people) is to plug in my watch. The Moto 360's dock is probably its best feature.

 

[Kaido]

My opinion:

1. I think smartwatches will be cool...eventually. Primary uses:

1) Home automation (especially with voice commands)
2) Reminders & alerts
3) Mobile payments
4) Remote start & unlock for your car
5) Proximity unlock for your front door
6) Health tracking (heartrate, sleep, exercise, etc.)

2. I think the Jawbone Up3 is the best fitness track available (well, almost available). I love my Jawbone Up24 & am excited to upgrade to the new features of the 3. Water resistance & heartrate tracking will be most welcome:

https://jawbone.com/store/buy/up3

3. I think the best smartwatch design is the upcoming Pebble Time, which features a color e-ink screen. That way you can actually see it outside in the sunlight, and it doesn't kill battery life quite as bad as an LCD screen. Their Kickstarter page claims up to 10 days of battery life:

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/597507018/pebble-time-awesome-smartwatch-no-compromises

4. Ideally, I would like to buy an Apple watch that has all of the features of the Jawbone Up3 along with a color e-ink screen like the Pebble, but running a nice, smooth iOS subset. That, plus at least a week's battery life. One of the big reasons I don't like the iWatch v1 is that you have to charge it every day...I like my Up24's sleep tracking feature. The quantified self is an appealing concept to me, even just for looking at my body's data for curiosity's sake...and I sure don't want to (1) miss out on the sleep tracking, and (2) have to charge it up every night.

5. I hate wearing watches. I don't mind my Jawbone fitness bracelet. I wear glasses, which are annoying (but I hate contacts) & don't wear any other kind of jewelry aside from a comfort-fit wedding ring. I think a lot of people in the younger generation are in the same boat...no one in my age range where I work (early 30's) wears a watch. A few of us have fitness bands, that's about it. One guy did get a Samsung smartwatch, which actually doesn't look as bad as it does in the pictures. The only smartwatch design I really like so far is the Microsoft Band, which is more of a wearable than a smartwatch. I like how you can wear the horizontal screen on the bottom of your wrist & do an angled flip to peek at it, without it being kind of an entirely different, separate device, if that makes sense. It's more for notifications & tracking than anything.

So yeah...give me a week's battery life, a Microsoft Band under-wrist horizontal screen, a color e-ink display, and the Jawbone Up3's fitness & sleep tracking capabilities, along with waterproofing, and I'll be a happy camper. I don't necessarily think that Apple is going to make that type of device, since they are set on a legacy watch design rather than a more modern approach like the Microsoft Band. It would also be interesting to see if Amazon gets into the app-based voice control game in conjunction with their Echo device, which looks like it has the best voice-recognition on the planet. The whole market segment still needs to be fully fleshed out, so we'll see where it goes!

 

[DeathReborn]

I can't even stand a regular watch so there's no chance I would ever buy one of these.

 

[Subyman]

I don't see the problems that this watch is supposed to solve.

 

[Kaido]

I don't see the problems that this watch is supposed to solve.

That's the biggest thing for me...what does it actually DO? There's nothing compelling about it, other than it's the next big gizmo from Apple. I'm a huge Apple fanboy & love their stuff, but man...I'm having a really hard time caring about the iWatch, haha.

 

[boomhower]

My opinion:

1. I think smartwatches will be cool...eventually. Primary uses:

1) Home automation (especially with voice commands)
2) Reminders & alerts
3) Mobile payments
4) Remote start & unlock for your car
5) Proximity unlock for your front door
6) Health tracking (heartrate, sleep, exercise, etc.)

2. I think the Jawbone Up3 is the best fitness track available (well, almost available). I love my Jawbone Up24 & am excited to upgrade to the new features of the 3. Water resistance & heartrate tracking will be most welcome:

https://jawbone.com/store/buy/up3

3. I think the best smartwatch design is the upcoming Pebble Time, which features a color e-ink screen. That way you can actually see it outside in the sunlight, and it doesn't kill battery life quite as bad as an LCD screen. Their Kickstarter page claims up to 10 days of battery life:

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/597507018/pebble-time-awesome-smartwatch-no-compromises

4. Ideally, I would like to buy an Apple watch that has all of the features of the Jawbone Up3 along with a color e-ink screen like the Pebble, but running a nice, smooth iOS subset. That, plus at least a week's battery life. One of the big reasons I don't like the iWatch v1 is that you have to charge it every day...I like my Up24's sleep tracking feature. The quantified self is an appealing concept to me, even just for looking at my body's data for curiosity's sake...and I sure don't want to (1) miss out on the sleep tracking, and (2) have to charge it up every night.

5. I hate wearing watches. I don't mind my Jawbone fitness bracelet. I wear glasses, which are annoying (but I hate contacts) & don't wear any other kind of jewelry aside from a comfort-fit wedding ring. I think a lot of people in the younger generation are in the same boat...no one in my age range where I work (early 30's) wears a watch. A few of us have fitness bands, that's about it. One guy did get a Samsung smartwatch, which actually doesn't look as bad as it does in the pictures. The only smartwatch design I really like so far is the Microsoft Band, which is more of a wearable than a smartwatch. I like how you can wear the horizontal screen on the bottom of your wrist & do an angled flip to peek at it, without it being kind of an entirely different, separate device, if that makes sense. It's more for notifications & tracking than anything.

So yeah...give me a week's battery life, a Microsoft Band under-wrist horizontal screen, a color e-ink display, and the Jawbone Up3's fitness & sleep tracking capabilities, along with waterproofing, and I'll be a happy camper. I don't necessarily think that Apple is going to make that type of device, since they are set on a legacy watch design rather than a more modern approach like the Microsoft Band. It would also be interesting to see if Amazon gets into the app-based voice control game in conjunction with their Echo device, which looks like it has the best voice-recognition on the planet. The whole market segment still needs to be fully fleshed out, so we'll see where it goes!

Perfect summation of my thoughts as well. Love my Up24 and will be getting an UP3. If they could implement some of the changes you suggeted I'd buy as well. Sleep info is important to me as well and the one day battery life pretty much kills that. I'd be good with three days.

 

[touchstone]

the difference and the reason why i am interested in the apple watch at all, is while the jawbone uses pressure sensors to sense pulse and bp the apple watch uses much more sensitive pulse oximiter technology that is currently only used in hospitals. those little things they stick to the tip of your fingers with the red led light to sense blood oxygenation is actually what those sensors are on the back of the watch!


really nothing comes anywhere close in terms of sensors and processing power. it is definitely a huge limitation that it cant practically be worn at night but once people see how accurate and advanced this thing is i don't think there is going to be much competition. nobody is even advertising any future products with pulse oximiter tech. the real problem with the apple watch is i bet the next one will have enough battery life to be worn at night, making this watch much like the first ipad. and you cant use android.

 

[Kaido]

the difference and the reason why i am interested in the apple watch at all, is while the jawbone uses pressure sensors to sense pulse and bp the apple watch uses much more sensitive pulse oximiter technology that is currently only used in hospitals. those little things they stick to the tip of your fingers with the red led light to sense blood oxygenation is actually what those sensors are on the back of the watch!

The Jawbone Up3 actually uses bioimpedance electrodes, which shoot a small electrical current into the skin & then measures the response. From what I've read, this can be worn loose since there are multiple sensors available for skin contact (I am very interested to see whether this is true or not, since Jawbone's description of their tetrapolar quad sensor sounds like it would need to be reasonably strapped on), whereas the Apple Watch must be worn snug because it uses optical LED's & photodiodes. One article I read also mentioned that since the iWatch has to emit light, that is a significant battery drain vs. the electrode method that Jawbone uses.

http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-29916612

The Up3 wristband uses a technique called bioimpedance to track its owner's pulse. This involves passing an imperceptible electrical current through the body to measure its resistance to the effect.

https://jawbone.com/blog/up3-advanced-multi-sensor-technology/

A bioimpedance sensor collecting heart rate, respiration rate and galvanic skin response.

...

Bioimpedance, on the other hand, is a novel sensor we are introducing with UP3.

...

Bioimpedance – The foundation of UP3

Bioimpedance sensors measure the resistance of bio-tissue to a tiny amount of electric current, capturing a wide range of physiological signals. Traditionally, bioimpedance analysis is used in clinical settings to measure your body composition, such as body fat with respect to your lean body mass. However, with UP3 we have translated this complex technology into a comfortable wrist form factor that you can wear 24/7.

Aside from issues around size and battery life, there are other reasons we decided against optical sensors. There are well-reported issues with skin tone and light interference, but more importantly, optical sensors measure your heart rate by looking at blood flow through your capillaries. While this is a good measure at low heart rates, the blood flow slows as it moves from the arteries through the capillaries below the skin making it imprecise.

The bioimpedance sensor in UP3 can look deeper inside the body, and is tuned to look for signals at specific depths. The sensor measures very tiny impedance changes within your body. For heart rate, we are measuring the impedance changes created by the volume of blood that is flowing in the Ulnar and Radial arteries. Because we are able to see the arterial flow, we believe it can maintain a more accurate tracking of your heart rate at your wrist than traditional sensing systems.

Further, because we can control how deep the sensors penetrate we can extract many other signals beyond heart rate. We will be able to see respiration (largely due to changes in oxygen in blood and surrounding cells) and hydration.

So how does it work?

The visible part of the bioimpedance system is the set of four electrodes embedded into the flexible strap. All four electrodes work in sync to form a tetrapolar (4 pole) system. Two outer electrodes drive tiny electrical energy and the two inner electrodes pick up changes in voltage. Amazingly, the resultant signal (which is imperceptible to the wearer) contains rich data about your physiology.

On the flip side, Apple uses IR & visible-light sensors:

https://www.apple.com/watch/technology/

The wrist is a convenient area for collecting data about your physical activity, a task Apple Watch is designed to perform throughout the day. On the back of the case, a ceramic cover with sapphire lenses1 protects a specially designed sensor that uses infrared and visible-light LEDs and photodiodes to detect your heart rate during workouts and when using the heart rate Glance. This allows Apple Watch to provide a comprehensive picture of your workouts and daily activity, suggest personal activity goals, and reward you for reaching personal fitness milestones.

Also, on the Jawbone:

http://www.wired.com/2014/11/jawbone-thinks-youll-still-buy-even-apple-watch/

Much more than just a step-counter and calorie-tracker, Jawbone says the sensors embedded along the Up3’s strap can measure everything from resting heart rate to hydration to stress level—all metrics it can parse with more accuracy the more you wear it

We don't have a side-by-side comparison since neither device is currently available, but from what I've read, the Jawbone's sensor suite sounds superior to Apple's, and it also has a 7-day battery life vs. a 1-day battery life, so if you're looking for a fitness band rather than a wearable, the Up3 sounds like a much better choice for measurable health tracking. Sleep tracking is also important to me, so being able to use the Jawbone at night is also extremely appealing.

 

[Kaido]

really nothing comes anywhere close in terms of sensors and processing power. it is definitely a huge limitation that it cant practically be worn at night but once people see how accurate and advanced this thing is i don't think there is going to be much competition. nobody is even advertising any future products with pulse oximiter tech. the real problem with the apple watch is i bet the next one will have enough battery life to be worn at night, making this watch much like the first ipad. and you cant use android.

Has Apple confirmed that they're using pulse oximeter technology? The description definitely looks interesting; I'm very interested to see how it compares to Jawbone's approach with the Up3.

http://appleinsider.com/articles/14...ics-to-monitor-heart-rate-blood-oxygen-levels

Apparently pulse oximeter documentation was filed with the IECEE:

https://rehmann.co/blog/?p=897

Comments:

http://www.reddit.com/r/apple/comments/2lu2wh/

The photoplethysmogram in the [Apple] Watch should be capable of measuring blood pressure, heart rate, heart rate variability, hypovolemia, hypervolemia and respiration rate.

I believe it's more difficult to get accurate readings based off reflected light. The ones you see at the hospital have the light on one side of your finger and the sensor on the other side. The light and sensor on the Apple Watch are both on the same side of your wrist.

It is possible, though, apparently Samsung are putting a pulse oximeter in some Galaxy Note 4s.

It sounds pretty good, and Apple isn't exactly known to cheap out on their hardware, so I'm extremely curious as to why they chose an LED/photodiode combination for their approach - whether it really is better than Jawbone's electrode system, or if because it would have made the band too weird by having 4 sensors on it. As with all other technology, I'll let the review sites dig into it to hash out the details before I make a final decision. But, the Jawbone's battery life is pretty compelling if you like sleep tracking, although the phone app-based sleep movement & snoring trackers are getting pretty accurate these days too.

 

[Blackjack200]

I don't see the problems that this watch is supposed to solve.

That's the biggest thing for me...what does it actually DO? There's nothing compelling about it, other than it's the next big gizmo from Apple. I'm a huge Apple fanboy & love their stuff, but man...I'm having a really hard time caring about the iWatch, haha.

What problem did the iPhone solve? Phones could already call and text. Smartphones could already email and access the web. Blackberrys had been around for years.

 

[Kaido]

What problem did the iPhone solve? Phones could already call and text. Smartphones could already email and access the web. Blackberrys had been around for years.

The interfaces on those were garbage though. The iPhone made it easy. No physical keyboard, great multi-touch touchscreen, smooth OS operation. Going from a Treo/Moto Q/Blackberry/Windows Mobile/Palm Pilot was such a huge step up in terms of usability, there was just no competition. Not to mention how accessible it made the touch interface...I made a list somewhere around here once upon a time, but the iPhone has replaced so many of my devices:

1. Home phone
2. GPS
3. Calculator
4. Notebook (Evernote)
5. Watch
6. Photo camera
7. Video camera
8. MP3 player
9. Portable game player
10. Scanner (JotNot)
11. Alarm clock
12. Radio (iHeartRadio)
13. Kitchen timer
14. Calendar (RIP paper!)
15. Voice recorder

etc. etc. etc. Yeah, my Dell Axim X5 did some of those things...with a stylus...in a tedious way. I actually liked my Moto Q better for some of those functions too, even though it didn't have a touchscreen. The iPhone was a gamechanger. The iWatch? I don't even wear a watch...it took the Jawbone Up24 to convince me to wear something on my wrist again. I like the sleep tracking, I like the fitness tracking, and I like the buzzing alarms it can do on my wrist. The iWatch needs to offer more (mainly in terms of battery life) before I'll bite, since it's not such a big jump in usability like the iPhone was. We already have fitness trackers that last 2 weeks on a charge, so now your watch goes down to a single day? For some reason, it's just not a compelling device to me...yet. Maybe the second or third generation...

 

[poofyhairguy]

The interfaces on those were garbage though. The iPhone made it easy.

Too easy I would argue. Everyone's phone has become a place full of apps and notifications begging for your attention. The point of a watch is a second screen for this ecosystem. So texts from the wife don't get buried in Facebook notifications, or that your fitness data is always easier to access than your Spotify account. Or than when you are cooking or grocery shopping that list/recipe is on your wrist and not buried in some app.

Think of it like a bookshelf in your office. The bottom shelf is old books your don't use as much. That is your PC. The middle shelves are the books that you read often. That is your phone. The top shelf are the trophies and artifacts you want to be very visible. That is the smartwatch.

All the fitness stuff is a sidepiece. The point is a second screen, a higher shelf.

 

[Artdeco]

I think the demographic Apple is counting on is women.

Listened to a few podcasts, and the females on the podcasts were a lot more interested in an Apple watch than the males. Fashion and all that stuff... They don't care if it only lasts a few years, I know a ton of women that spend their waking hours with a cell phone in their hand, I think some of them are ready to put their phones in their purse and get notifications on their wrist.

I backed the Pebble Time Steel, 10 days of battery life, and it looks ok, except for the giant bezels, and the screen...

 

[quikah]

Too easy I would argue. Everyone's phone has become a place full of apps and notifications begging for your attention. The point of a watch is a second screen for this ecosystem. So texts from the wife don't get buried in Facebook notifications, or that your fitness data is always easier to access than your Spotify account. Or than when you are cooking or grocery shopping that list/recipe is on your wrist and not buried in some app.

Think of it like a bookshelf in your office. The bottom shelf is old books your don't use as much. That is your PC. The middle shelves are the books that you read often. That is your phone. The top shelf are the trophies and artifacts you want to be very visible. That is the smartwatch.

Sounds more like it is trying to make up for iOS deficiencies.



Your analogy is pretty terrible, that top shelf sounds like it contains no useful information. Just something to look at once in a while.

 

[Commodus]

I think the demographic Apple is counting on is women.

Listened to a few podcasts, and the females on the podcasts were a lot more interested in an Apple watch than the males. Fashion and all that stuff... They don't care if it only lasts a few years, I know a ton of women that spend their waking hours with a cell phone in their hand, I think some of them are ready to put their phones in their purse and get notifications on their wrist.

I backed the Pebble Time Steel, 10 days of battery life, and it looks ok, except for the giant bezels, and the screen...

I've seen people on other forums make that point lately: that Apple may do well simply because it's not dismissing half of the human population. Fashion is part of it (though men certainly indulge in the fashion part, too), but a lot of it is the sizing.

Take the Moto 360, for example. There's only one giant casing option, and the strap lengths are always the same. Have slim wrists? Too bad. Apple not only offers two different case sizes (both of which are more reasonable), but offers each band in multiple lengths. Between that and the overall design, there's a sense that this wasn't just a bunch of male engineers making a watch for themselves.

 

[Artdeco]

I haven't seen this much discussion and dislike since the iPad, am changing my prediction from moderate success to a blowout success for Apple.

 

[touchstone]

im also predicting a huge success, although by the virtue of the apple watch requiring an iphone and people only having two wrists apple cant ever sell more apple watches than iphones.

this problem could be solved if they let android users sync. suddenly the other seventy percent of the market is available to apple. why be so pretentious about it?

 

[Artdeco]

I also think we're going to see a fundamental shift in the way we use the mobile internet, not Apples stuff in particular, but with all of them, Android Wear, Apple Watch, LG's Web OS, Tizen, etc.

The phone will be our hub, wearables, the immediate access to notifications, etc.

 

[dawheat]

I think the demographic Apple is counting on is women.

Listened to a few podcasts, and the females on the podcasts were a lot more interested in an Apple watch than the males. Fashion and all that stuff... They don't care if it only lasts a few years, I know a ton of women that spend their waking hours with a cell phone in their hand, I think some of them are ready to put their phones in their purse and get notifications on their wrist.

I backed the Pebble Time Steel, 10 days of battery life, and it looks ok, except for the giant bezels, and the screen...

Ehh that's way optimistic. I will give that it is more female-friendly that any Android equivalent, but that's mostly saying it's more than 0. As much as Apple wants to position it as jewelry, it really won't long term. Most women want something innately beautiful AND valuable. I really think after the buzz dies down, most women of taste will realize it's still a gadget, and one whose internals are rapidly decreasing in value.

I'm sure the Apple Watch will sell well - what I'm really unsure is whether it will continue to do so after the new product buzz has died down and people need to decide whether they want to pay for Gen 2/3/etc.

My not so bold prediction - Apple Watch sales will never take off the way the iPhone did in subsequent generations. It'll sell in the millions, but not the ever growing rate of the iPhone, and instead will follow the iPad curve but more aggressively. Good initial ramp, slow growth as the tech improves, and then slowing/decreasing sales as those who want one have a "good enough" watch.

 

[Mermaidman]

im also predicting a huge success, although by the virtue of the apple watch requiring an iphone and people only having two wrists apple cant ever sell more apple watches than iphones.

this problem could be solved if they let android users sync. suddenly the other seventy percent of the market is available to apple. why be so pretentious about it?

Apple wants Android users to switch to iPhone in order to use the Watch.

New poll: How many Android users are switching to iPhone because of the Watch? (crickets . . . )

 

[Artdeco]

Apple wants Android users to switch to iPhone in order to use the Watch.

New poll: How many Android users are switching to iPhone because of the Watch? (crickets . . . )

See, that's where the folks that post here get blindsided, people that post here aren't the target demographic by a long shot.

The iPhone was going to fail, the iPad was going to fail, "Apple is doomed"

How'd that all work out again?

Apple Just Had The Most Profitable Quarter Of Any Company Ever