How long is the max a human body can be dead before being revived through CPR, etc?

[lowtech1]

Sask. dad remembers revival of his frozen daughter
6 hours is the limit that I have heard of.

 

[GasX]

Originally posted by: Ladies Man

Originally posted by: Mwilding

Originally posted by: dullard

Originally posted by: Mwilding
A patient undergoing open heart surgery often spends up to an hour with their heart disconnected from their body, no respiration and no brain activity. Are they dead? I guess the answer is no, but you wonder why these guys think they are god...

I do not think that person is dead while under surgery. The brain still functions, the cells are still doing their duties, etc - thus the person is alive. That is why I disagree with the typical diagnosis of death.

open heart requires killing the patient. Zero Heart rate (as evidenced by the fact that it is partially separated from its plumbing), Zero Respiration, Zero brain activity. Granted the patient is perfused with chilled blood and cooled WAY down, but they are dead for the duration of the surgery....

You sir are an idiot.

The person is put on a heart and lung machine and maintains brain activity the entire time. Yes they make the heart stop beating etc etc etc but the person still has blood flow, and still has brain activity.

You sir have never been in an operating room when the surgeon orders the perfusionist to turn off the pump have you?

kthxbye

edit - "pump" not "room"

 

[Eli]

Originally posted by: lowtech
Sask. dad remembers revival of his frozen daughter
6 hours is the limit that I have heard of.

:Q

 

[Amorphus]

Originally posted by: Mwilding

Originally posted by: Ladies Man

Originally posted by: Mwilding

Originally posted by: dullard

Originally posted by: Mwilding
A patient undergoing open heart surgery often spends up to an hour with their heart disconnected from their body, no respiration and no brain activity. Are they dead? I guess the answer is no, but you wonder why these guys think they are god...

I do not think that person is dead while under surgery. The brain still functions, the cells are still doing their duties, etc - thus the person is alive. That is why I disagree with the typical diagnosis of death.

open heart requires killing the patient. Zero Heart rate (as evidenced by the fact that it is partially separated from its plumbing), Zero Respiration, Zero brain activity. Granted the patient is perfused with chilled blood and cooled WAY down, but they are dead for the duration of the surgery....

You sir are an idiot.

The person is put on a heart and lung machine and maintains brain activity the entire time. Yes they make the heart stop beating etc etc etc but the person still has blood flow, and still has brain activity.

You sir have never been in an operating room when the surgeon orders the perfusionist to turn off the room have you?

kthxbye

turn off the room?

 

[aircooled]

ask Walt Disney in 1000 years.

 

[Noirish]

I heard someone called Jesus Christ came back after 7 days.
I don't think CPR was involved either.

 

[hjo3]

> I heard someone called Jesus Christ came back after 7 days.

It was 3 days, you imbecile.
If you ppl are going to bring up this God stuff all the time, at least get your stories straight.

 

[Noirish]

Originally posted by: hjo3
> I heard someone called Jesus Christ came back after 7 days.

It was 3 days, you imbecile.
If you ppl are going to bring up this God stuff all the time, at least get your stories straight.

Sorry, it's just a story I heard.
I guess it got stretched.
btw, there is no need to be rude, you imbecile.

 

[hjo3]

Oh. Sorry.

 

[GasX]

Originally posted by: Amorphus

Originally posted by: Mwilding

Originally posted by: Ladies Man

Originally posted by: Mwilding

Originally posted by: dullard

Originally posted by: Mwilding
A patient undergoing open heart surgery often spends up to an hour with their heart disconnected from their body, no respiration and no brain activity. Are they dead? I guess the answer is no, but you wonder why these guys think they are god...

I do not think that person is dead while under surgery. The brain still functions, the cells are still doing their duties, etc - thus the person is alive. That is why I disagree with the typical diagnosis of death.

open heart requires killing the patient. Zero Heart rate (as evidenced by the fact that it is partially separated from its plumbing), Zero Respiration, Zero brain activity. Granted the patient is perfused with chilled blood and cooled WAY down, but they are dead for the duration of the surgery....

You sir are an idiot.

The person is put on a heart and lung machine and maintains brain activity the entire time. Yes they make the heart stop beating etc etc etc but the person still has blood flow, and still has brain activity.

You sir have never been in an operating room when the surgeon orders the perfusionist to turn off the room have you?

kthxbye

turn off the room?

Doh - I fixed it...

 

[DT4K]

MWilding,
If you think brain activity stops for hours while open-heart surgery is performed, you are truly stupid.
Without blood supply, the brain would quickly die.
I don't know WTF you are talking about with turning off the pump, but a constant supply of oxygenated blood is provided to the brain throughout the surgery.

 

[thomsbrain]

well i stopped breathing years ago, and they still haven't bothered to revive me.

 

[msarusac]

Originally posted by: Mwilding

Originally posted by: dullard

Originally posted by: Mwilding
A patient undergoing open heart surgery often spends up to an hour with their heart disconnected from their body, no respiration and no brain activity. Are they dead? I guess the answer is no, but you wonder why these guys think they are god...

I do not think that person is dead while under surgery. The brain still functions, the cells are still doing their duties, etc - thus the person is alive. That is why I disagree with the typical diagnosis of death.

open heart requires killing the patient. Zero Heart rate (as evidenced by the fact that it is partially separated from its plumbing), Zero Respiration, Zero brain activity. Granted the patient is perfused with chilled blood and cooled WAY down, but they are dead for the duration of the surgery....

good lord...I'm not a doctor...but I am a medical student...and I assure you that a patient is NOT DEAD during a surgery. They are unconscious, yes, but that is NOT DEAD!! The whole point of the heart-lung machine is to supply the body (including the brain) with oxygenated blood so that it doesn't die!

 

[Yossarian451]

Originally posted by: Eli

Originally posted by: lowtech
Sask. dad remembers revival of his frozen daughter
6 hours is the limit that I have heard of.

:Q

I remember this, the whole reaons she was able to be revived was that she exhaled and cold water filled her lungs and he brain was chilled immediately. It basically preserved teh brain before it could be damaged by the lack of oxygen. Quite intersting how it worked out, kind of a marvel of involuntary relfexes.

 

[Trevelyan]

Seriously man, there is definately brain activity during heart surgery.

My brother in law is in med school... they don't call you dead unless there is not brain activity. The reason they use heart monitors is simple: If there is no blood flow, then no blood gets to the brain, and the brain dies. Plus, its much easier to monitor the heart than the brain.

During heart surgery, you are not "dead"... your heart is just temporarily replaced with a machine. Your brain is where your consciousness is, not the heart (as was once believed by scientists many centuries ago, and still believed by idiots on the internet today).

 

[GasX]

Originally posted by: Shanti
MWilding,
If you think brain activity stops for hours while open-heart surgery is performed, you are truly stupid.
Without blood supply, the brain would quickly die.
I don't know WTF you are talking about with turning off the pump, but a constant supply of oxygenated blood is provided to the brain throughout the surgery.

Ever been in an OR?

 

[heartsurgeon]

depends entirely on the temperature..

i cool patients down to 18 degrees centigrade, and can operate on them "safely" with absolutely no blood flow in the body for about 45 minutes.
"safely" means they have a reasonable chance of surviving and waking up...how ever, the longer the episode of "circulatory arrest", the greater the possibility of
some brain damage (either subtle, or not so subtle).

i have rescusitated patients in "fresh water drownings" who were hypothermic for over an hour...you can get everything working again except the brain....

old medical saying (which i did not invent)
"their not dead until their warm and dead"

hope that helps you with your research.......

 

[911paramedic]

"their not dead until their warm and dead"

How true. So as you see, it depends on many factors. (figure LOTS of problems at the 5-7 minute mark at room temp)

 

[Cyberian]

Originally posted by: heartsurgeon
depends entirely on the temperature..

i cool patients down to 18 degrees centigrade, and can operate on them "safely" with absolutely no blood flow in the body for about 45 minutes.
"safely" means they have a reasonable chance of surviving and waking up...how ever, the longer the episode of "circulatory arrest", the greater the possibility of
some brain damage (either subtle, or not so subtle).

i have rescusitated patients in "fresh water drownings" who were hypothermic for over an hour...you can get everything working again except the brain....

old medical saying (which i did not invent)
"their not dead until their warm and dead"

hope that helps you with your research.......

What is considered 'reasonable'?

Surgeon told me I had a 90% chance of survival, and I was still pretty scared.

:Q

 

[Eli]

Originally posted by: Cyberian

Originally posted by: heartsurgeon
depends entirely on the temperature..

i cool patients down to 18 degrees centigrade, and can operate on them "safely" with absolutely no blood flow in the body for about 45 minutes.
"safely" means they have a reasonable chance of surviving and waking up...how ever, the longer the episode of "circulatory arrest", the greater the possibility of
some brain damage (either subtle, or not so subtle).

i have rescusitated patients in "fresh water drownings" who were hypothermic for over an hour...you can get everything working again except the brain....

old medical saying (which i did not invent)
"their not dead until their warm and dead"

hope that helps you with your research.......

What is considered 'reasonable'?

Surgeon told me I had a 90% chance of survival, and I was still pretty scared.

:Q

No doubt. :Q

 

[Eli]

YADP...

 

[Caanon]

Originally posted by: Mwilding

Originally posted by: Shanti
MWilding,
If you think brain activity stops for hours while open-heart surgery is performed, you are truly stupid.
Without blood supply, the brain would quickly die.
I don't know WTF you are talking about with turning off the pump, but a constant supply of oxygenated blood is provided to the brain throughout the surgery.

Ever been in an OR?

If you actually have medical "training" and responsibilities...tell us where so we can avoid it.

 

[MedicBob]

Originally posted by: prvteye2003

Originally posted by: Mwilding
Time since breathing ceased:
0-1 minutes - mild cardiac disturbances (not permanent)
1-4 minutes - no brain damage likely
4-6 minutes - brain damage possible
6-10 minutes - brain damage likely
10+ minutes - permanent brain damage

source: PADI Recue Diver Manual

The timeline can be greatly extended if the victim is VERY cold. i.e. drowned in 35 degree water

This is very accurate. Being a paramedic and having performed CPR over 200+ times, it is very difficult and next to impossible to save anyone once the heart has stopped. There are so many different levels and reasons why ones heart has stopped. Also, depending on what the heart is doing at the time this happens, the treatments are different.(defibrillation, cardiac drugs, etc.) I've been right there with patients that arrested and had all the equipment and drugs with me and still could not save them. From what I was taught, after 4 minutes, the brain begins to die from lack of oxygenated blood. CPR helps in that blood is pumped to the heart and brain but only if performed correctly. One other thing is that when you do the rescue breathing part of CPR, you are only blowing in 16% O2 when you normally inhale 21% O2. That's one factor the person has against them. Another is that CPR, even if performed correctly and perfectly, is not even close to being as efficient as the human heart. Although I've seen people revived and have revived people myself, most people that have an infarct to the extent that they go unconscious because of a damaged heart, are pretty much fvcked. Consider yourself lucky or your loved ones if theyve lived through such an ordeal.

Look no further then this for the answer. I have seen and participated in some amazing "saves", IE: walks out of hospital, but the above chart is so true. CPR and fast Defibrillation are mandatory if one is to even have a chance at beating the above timeline.

Bob

 

[GasX]

Originally posted by: Caanon

Originally posted by: Mwilding

Originally posted by: Shanti
MWilding,
If you think brain activity stops for hours while open-heart surgery is performed, you are truly stupid.
Without blood supply, the brain would quickly die.
I don't know WTF you are talking about with turning off the pump, but a constant supply of oxygenated blood is provided to the brain throughout the surgery.

Ever been in an OR?

If you actually have medical "training" and responsibilities...tell us where so we can avoid it.

Why do you say that? My view was confirmed by heartsurgeon....