How long does it take to cool down a Ten-Pack?

[loup garou]

Originally posted by: minendo

Originally posted by: werk
Where do you think the heat necessary to melt the ice comes from?

What heat? Now you are discussing heat, when we want to make the beer cold. By adding salt to ice all you do is turn it into ice-water.

Haven't you ever made ice cream before? The salt causes the freezing point of the ice to lower, so it melts. In order for it to melt, it needs to draw heat from its environment. The cans of beer are in its environment so heat is drawn out from the beer, making it cold.

 

[minendo]

Originally posted by: werk
needs to draw heat from its environment. The cans of beer are in its environment so heat is drawn out from the beer, making it cold.

The ice melts when salt is added because the salt interrupts the equlibrium of the system not because it is pulling heat from the environment.

 

[Jzero]

Originally posted by: Dudd

Originally posted by: werk

Originally posted by: minendo

Originally posted by: werk

Originally posted by: notfred
Rock salt (or salt in general) doesn't make anything colder.

Read.

That discusses how salt lowers the freezing point, which is not the same as making the temperature drop.

Where do you think the heat necessary to melt the ice comes from?

It doesn't add or subtract heat, it just alters the mixture's chemical properties so that it freezes and melts at different temperatures.

Because dissolving NaCl in HOH is an ENDOTHERMIC process. Heat energy is required to separate the ions.

 

[TheNinja]

You are all wrong. The reason why salt in the ice water might possibly cool beer faster is because instead of the water being 32F (the normal temp at which it freezes), it would be possible to get the water to below that to say 28F therefore cooling the beer faster and making it colder b/c you are using colder water to cool it. I say do one of two things:

1. Ice water and spin the beer (as mentioned)
2. Block of ice and spin each beer on the block (cools a room temp beer to ice cold in about 5 minutes, but you have to do it to each one separately)

 

[loup garou]

Originally posted by: Staley8
You are all wrong. The reason why salt in the ice water might possibly cool beer faster is because instead of the water being 32F (the normal temp at which it freezes), it would be possible to get the water to below that to say 28F therefore cooling the beer faster and making it colder b/c you are using colder water to cool it.

Argh! Is that not what I freaking said?

 

[minendo]

Originally posted by: Staley8
You are all wrong. The reason why salt in the ice water might possibly cool beer faster is because instead of the water being 32F (the normal temp at which it freezes), it would be possible to get the water to below that to say 28F therefore cooling the beer faster and making it colder b/c you are using colder water to cool it. I say do one of two things:

By adding the salt you do not reduce the temperature of the ice-water solution, you simply lower the freezing point. The only way to do this is if you added a substance that was colder than 28F to reduce the solution temperature.

 

[Dudd]

Does anyone else think it's hilarious how we've taken an innocent question about the quickest way for someone to cool their beer before getting smashed, and turned it into a Chemistry debate? Only in ATOT.

 

Originally posted by: minendo

Originally posted by: Staley8
You are all wrong. The reason why salt in the ice water might possibly cool beer faster is because instead of the water being 32F (the normal temp at which it freezes), it would be possible to get the water to below that to say 28F therefore cooling the beer faster and making it colder b/c you are using colder water to cool it. I say do one of two things:

By adding the salt you do not reduce the temperature of the ice-water solution, you simply lower the freezing point. The only way to do this is if you added a substance that was colder than 28F to reduce the solution temperature.

So basically what you're saying is put the beer in salt water and put it in the freezer.

Case closed.

 

[minendo]

Originally posted by: jumpr
So basically what you're saying is put the beer in salt water and put it in the freezer.

Case closed.

That would be kind of pointless though. A typical home freezer is already well below 32F.

 

[Dudd]

Originally posted by: minendo

Originally posted by: jumpr
So basically what you're saying is put the beer in salt water and put it in the freezer.

Case closed.

That would be kind of pointless though. A typical home freezer is already well below 32F.

But this quickens the process. Normally, water freezes at 32 degrees. The water would cool to 32, and then begin to freeze. However, with the addition of salt, the water would cool to, say, 28 degrees and then begin to freeze. So, it would be surrounded by water 4 degrees cooler than normal. That was the whole argument .

 

[rayray2]

Originally posted by: Dudd
Does anyone else think it's hilarious how we've taken an innocent question about the quickest way for someone to cool their beer before getting smashed, and turned it into a Chemistry debate? Only in ATOT.

I was just gonna post something similar after reading through 3/4 of this thread.

 

[agnitrate]

Originally posted by: minendo

Originally posted by: Staley8
You are all wrong. The reason why salt in the ice water might possibly cool beer faster is because instead of the water being 32F (the normal temp at which it freezes), it would be possible to get the water to below that to say 28F therefore cooling the beer faster and making it colder b/c you are using colder water to cool it. I say do one of two things:

By adding the salt you do not reduce the temperature of the ice-water solution, you simply lower the freezing point. The only way to do this is if you added a substance that was colder than 28F to reduce the solution temperature.

Exactly. This is why they put salt down in the winter. They throw down something like potassium chloride which mixes with the snow, lowering its freezing point. It's a helluva lot colder than 28F outside usually, but the snow doesn't freeze again, right? Exactly, because it doesn't lower the temperature, just the freezing point.

If you guys were correct, adding salt would just lower the temperature and freezing point of water causing it to freeze at a lower temperature, which is impossible.

I believe the formula is delta of freezing point = kmi where k is the constant for the molecule, m is the mass of the additive, and i is the number of ions in the additive. It doesn't affect temperature, just freezing point.

-silver

 

[vi edit]

Originally posted by: notfred
Rock salt (or salt in general) doesn't make anything colder.

According to this months Playboy, adding rock salt to a bucket of ice & water is the proper way to cool beer down.

So it is written, so shall it be.

 

[minendo]

Originally posted by: Dudd
But this quickens the process.

Not really. First, you would have to reduce the ice to a ice-water solution, then place it back into the freezer. By placing the beers in an ice-water bath (no salt addition for time purposes) and spinning them you get faster cooling due to particle to particle "heat" transfer.

 

[Viper GTS]

minendo, you are flat out wrong on this one.

http://www.iscienceproject.com/labs/pdf_labs/6368_saltaffectfeezing.pdf

Viper GTS

 

[loup garou]

Minendo, have you ever made ice cream before?

 

[ElFenix]

it drops the temperature of the ice water mixture, theres no heat added in the phase change so the temperature drops. the 0 point in farenheit is based on as cold as they could make liquid water (at the time) by pouring salt on ice.

 

[ElFenix]

from the obviously unread how stuff works link:

Salt mixed with ice creates a brine that has a temperature lower than 32 F.

 

[TheNinja]

Originally posted by: agnitrate

Originally posted by: minendo

Originally posted by: Staley8
You are all wrong. The reason why salt in the ice water might possibly cool beer faster is because instead of the water being 32F (the normal temp at which it freezes), it would be possible to get the water to below that to say 28F therefore cooling the beer faster and making it colder b/c you are using colder water to cool it. I say do one of two things:

By adding the salt you do not reduce the temperature of the ice-water solution, you simply lower the freezing point. The only way to do this is if you added a substance that was colder than 28F to reduce the solution temperature.

Exactly. This is why they put salt down in the winter. They throw down something like potassium chloride which mixes with the snow, lowering its freezing point. It's a helluva lot colder than 28F outside usually, but the snow doesn't freeze again, right? Exactly, because it doesn't lower the temperature, just the freezing point.

If you guys were correct, adding salt would just lower the temperature and freezing point of water causing it to freeze at a lower temperature, which is impossible.

I believe the formula is delta of freezing point = kmi where k is the constant for the molecule, m is the mass of the additive, and i is the number of ions in the additive. It doesn't affect temperature, just freezing point.

-silver

That sounds logical and all, but riddle me this....how can you lower the freezing point of water but not lower the actual temperature. Let's say water freezes at 32F at which point it becomes ice. Now add some salt to the mixture lowering the freezing point to say 25F. Theoretically water could then be 26F and not freeze thereby being colder than the 33F water without ice. If you say that salt lowers the freezing point of water but not the temperature of water are you saying that water can only be 33F and then all of a sudden drops to 25F and freezes because that in the lowered freezing point?

 

[ElFenix]

heres how it works:
normally it takes heat to change a block of ice at 32 degrees to a puddle of water at 32 degrees. when you add the salt the ice is pulled apart without any heat being added. since that now liquid water still has the same amount of energy as the ice did the temperature drops.

 

[iamwiz82]

leave it to geeks to argue about cooling beer off.

 

[agnitrate]

Originally posted by: Staley8

Originally posted by: agnitrate

Originally posted by: minendo

Originally posted by: Staley8
You are all wrong. The reason why salt in the ice water might possibly cool beer faster is because instead of the water being 32F (the normal temp at which it freezes), it would be possible to get the water to below that to say 28F therefore cooling the beer faster and making it colder b/c you are using colder water to cool it. I say do one of two things:

By adding the salt you do not reduce the temperature of the ice-water solution, you simply lower the freezing point. The only way to do this is if you added a substance that was colder than 28F to reduce the solution temperature.

Exactly. This is why they put salt down in the winter. They throw down something like potassium chloride which mixes with the snow, lowering its freezing point. It's a helluva lot colder than 28F outside usually, but the snow doesn't freeze again, right? Exactly, because it doesn't lower the temperature, just the freezing point.

If you guys were correct, adding salt would just lower the temperature and freezing point of water causing it to freeze at a lower temperature, which is impossible.

I believe the formula is delta of freezing point = kmi where k is the constant for the molecule, m is the mass of the additive, and i is the number of ions in the additive. It doesn't affect temperature, just freezing point.

-silver

That sounds logical and all, but riddle me this....how can you lower the freezing point of water but not lower the actual temperature. Let's say water freezes at 32F at which point it becomes ice. Now add some salt to the mixture lowering the freezing point to say 25F. Theoretically water could then be 26F and not freeze thereby being colder than the 33F water without ice. If you say that salt lowers the freezing point of water but not the temperature of water are you saying that water can only be 33F and then all of a sudden drops to 25F and freezes because that in the lowered freezing point?

You are correct. I wasn't thinking thoroughly enough. You lower the freezing point and if the conditions are suitable, the solution will get colder. Now all somebody has to do is find the freezing point of beer and make something cold enough to get it there quickly and we will all be much happier

-silver

 

[Ausm]

Your're two :beer:s short of a twelve pack

Ausm

 

[TJN23]

fly to alaska

 

[loup garou]

Originally posted by: iamwiz82
leave it to geeks to argue about cooling beer off.

It's all notfred's fault (as usual).