How long do you think till we have photorealistic open world RPGs?

[JimmiG]

The closer you get to realism, the more you notice the imperfections.

I'd rather they work on more interesting stuff like real cities with thousands of NPC's in them. Notice how "cities" in open world games consist of about 100 people? Assassins Creed does a good job on this type of stuff though.

Games at this point look "good enough". I'm not even sure I want "photo realistic" games because that would make them less artistic in a way. Also, I like to use my imagination when playing.

At first I was a bit disappointed that Skyrim would be written for current-gen consoles and so would not use any real cutting edge technology. But the screen-shots look good in a non-photo realistic way and I can't wait to explore the world. I'm more excited about the improvements to NPC's, dialog and quests than the new graphics.

Like you say, one area where games haven't evolved is scale. A "city" in a computer RPG is little more than a village.
Also, Daggerfall was twice the size of Britain or something crazy like that. Skyrim will be 16 square miles. I would love to see an open-world RPG with a completely procedurally generated world the size of a small country. Transportation could be via airship or dragons or something, so you really get a sense of the scale. Plus, the world would be different each time you started a new game. I mean look at the popularity of Minecraft - and it's just a poorly coded, overrated Java game essentially made by one guy on his spare time. With modern technology, it should be possible to generate convincing and varied worlds far beyond what was possible back when Daggerfall was developed.

 

[Cerb]

Also, Daggerfall was twice the size of Britain or something crazy like that. Skyrim will be 16 square miles. I would love to see an open-world RPG with a completely procedurally generated world the size of a small country. Transportation could be via airship or dragons or something, so you really get a sense of the scale. Plus, the world would be different each time you started a new game. With modern technology, it should be possible to generate convincing and varied worlds far beyond what was possible back when Daggerfall was developed.

Towards that end, we need companies thinking about making such games to work on content creation methods and software to enable it. It takes a lot of time, and a lot of storage space, to make those 16m^2. Hardware is definitely at a point where that should be taken head-on. Make it so that someone can build a building from various material blocks, in a modular way, and the software--game engine specific--glues it all together (move points so that meshes touch perfectly, no overlap or gaps, except where explicitly desired, apply a base set of lighting based on the outside world and any lights added, align the textures at corners, etc.). In the process, figure out good ways to re-use shapes and textures (in the building example, you could have a base mesh, that when loaded, is modified just enough for that building--maybe even have color adjustment to the textures on-demand, too).

For the size of an open world to really grow, the use of game-independent 3rd-party software to create the environments needs to be greatly reduced, and anything that isn't a single rock or tree needs to made so that it is not irreducible.

 

[Locut0s]

Games at this point look "good enough". I'm not even sure I want "photo realistic" games because that would make them less artistic in a way. Also, I like to use my imagination when playing.

At first I was a bit disappointed that Skyrim would be written for current-gen consoles and so would not use any real cutting edge technology. But the screen-shots look good in a non-photo realistic way and I can't wait to explore the world. I'm more excited about the improvements to NPC's, dialog and quests than the new graphics.

Like you say, one area where games haven't evolved is scale. A "city" in a computer RPG is little more than a village.
Also, Daggerfall was twice the size of Britain or something crazy like that. Skyrim will be 16 square miles. I would love to see an open-world RPG with a completely procedurally generated world the size of a small country. Transportation could be via airship or dragons or something, so you really get a sense of the scale. Plus, the world would be different each time you started a new game. I mean look at the popularity of Minecraft - and it's just a poorly coded, overrated Java game essentially made by one guy on his spare time. With modern technology, it should be possible to generate convincing and varied worlds far beyond what was possible back when Daggerfall was developed.

Towards that end, we need companies thinking about making such games to work on content creation methods and software to enable it. It takes a lot of time, and a lot of storage space, to make those 16m^2. Hardware is definitely at a point where that should be taken head-on. Make it so that someone can build a building from various material blocks, in a modular way, and the software--game engine specific--glues it all together (move points so that meshes touch perfectly, no overlap or gaps, except where explicitly desired, apply a base set of lighting based on the outside world and any lights added, align the textures at corners, etc.). In the process, figure out good ways to re-use shapes and textures (in the building example, you could have a base mesh, that when loaded, is modified just enough for that building--maybe even have color adjustment to the textures on-demand, too).

For the size of an open world to really grow, the use of game-independent 3rd-party software to create the environments needs to be greatly reduced, and anything that isn't a single rock or tree needs to made so that it is not irreducible.

:thumbsup::thumbsup: Agreed.

 

[Sonikku]

Even if it were possible, would it be profitable? The higher the detail, the higher the development costs. By the time consoles have reached this level, games are going to retail for $100.

 

[PrayForDeath]

edit: ok nm, I just read the thread

 

[PrayForDeath]

Also this:

http://pc.ign.com/articles/118/1184814p1.html

 

[PrayForDeath]

true photorealistic may even have a hard time being adopted, going to cause massive motion sickness issues for people.

You get motion sick when you watch movies?

 

[HardcoreRobot]

You get motion sick when you watch movies?

many people do get sick watching imax.

why dont you educate yourself instead of singling me out...

http://www.cctvblog.net/profiles/blogs/ultrahd-is-sick-literally - some random blog, this effect has been repeatedly detected and discussed

 

[HeXen]

i think everyone has a different view of whats considered Photo Real.
Now BF3 and GTA4 ice mod are imo, Photo realistic, even though its not really akin to an actual photo, but rather the lighting and colors seem to match similarities of real life.

That being said, its obvious they could do it now. I mean GTAiv is open world and just imagine if Rockstar wanted to do what the modding scene has done, i'm sure it could look even better.

However the performance would be an issue, and PC gamers bitch a storm if they can't use max settings on their $3k rig. PC gamers don't understand the word Future Proof at all.

You get motion sick when you watch movies?

Motion sickness is very common. Especially with games, when Prey came out, there were tons of threads reporting motion sickness. I can only imagine how many more would if you used a VR helmet of sort.

 

[HeXen]

Like you say, one area where games haven't evolved is scale. A "city" in a computer RPG is little more than a village.
Also, Daggerfall was twice the size of Britain or something crazy like that. Skyrim will be 16 square miles. I would love to see an open-world RPG with a completely procedurally generated world the size of a small country. Transportation could be via airship or dragons or something, so you really get a sense of the scale. Plus, the world would be different each time you started a new game. I mean look at the popularity of Minecraft - and it's just a poorly coded, overrated Java game essentially made by one guy on his spare time. With modern technology, it should be possible to generate convincing and varied worlds far beyond what was possible back when Daggerfall was developed.

the huge problem with procedurally generated landscapes...which Oblivion was, you see the same things over n over n over. it gets old. and with such a vast space, you'll lack details between places.

so if say Skyrim was 150km instead of 16. then we just have more space in between dungeons..etc, a void of nothing but the same trees..etc. Then you get tired of trying to reach point A to B.
People complained about the voids in San Andreas, so they shrank the map size in GTA4 and had more detailed enviro instead...to have both would be too costly at this point....maybe procedurally generated buildings..etc would fix?

 

[ioni]

Why would you want photo realism in an RPG? Dragon Knight Saga is one of the best looking RPGs I've ever seen. Kingdom of Amalur is shaping up to look amazing as well. We could already do photo realism if we wanted. Those new GTA4 mods prove that. You just need textures that are photos.

 

[fatpat268]

i think everyone has a different view of whats considered Photo Real.
Now BF3 and GTA4 ice mod are imo, Photo realistic, even though its not really akin to an actual photo, but rather the lighting and colors seem to

Well, both BF3 and GTA4 ice do look photo realistic from a distance, but it's when you start getting up close to stuff is when that realism breaks down.

I honestly don't think we'll ever truly reach photo-realism in our lifetime. It's not that the technology won't eventually catch up (I think it will in 20-30 years), it's that the technology still has to get by the uncanny valley. Will we ever be able to accurately portray a human face in a game without it looking wrong? I'm not so sure.

Because lets face it, photorealism of a landscape wouldn't be too hard to do with a massive amount of computing power...it's making it feel alive that will be the hard part.

 

[BladeVenom]

Even when we get to photorealistic graphics, the illusion of reality will be shattered by the drop dead stupid level of AI.

 

[HeXen]

A.I. has been the slowest moving technology ever. i'll never forget, Turok 2 had enemies that could see, hear and jump behind objects..etc. That same AI is still in most games today.
I really believe Oblivion, though buggy, is one of the most advanced thats taken place in years. GTA4 felt very alive, though the AI isnt really much

 

[PrayForDeath]

many people do get sick watching imax.

why dont you educate yourself instead of singling me out...

http://www.cctvblog.net/profiles/blogs/ultrahd-is-sick-literally - some random blog, this effect has been repeatedly detected and discussed

That's not my point. I wasn't trying to single you out. I was just pointing out that as video game graphics improve and become more photorealistic, they will starting looking more like movies, which we do already have in abundance.

I'm not denying that some people get motion sickness from watching movies (a friend of mine does), but you made it sound like a big deal when it really only affects a tiny number of people.

 

[HeXen]

but you made it sound like a big deal when it really only affects a tiny number of people.

"motion sickness strikes 90 percent of Americans at some point in their lives"

According to surveys, car sickness affects 58 percent of children, incapacitating airsickness occurs in 29 percent of airline pilots, space-motion sickness occurs in 50 percent of space shuttle astronauts, and up to 100 percent of ship passengers experience seasickness under rough conditions.

 

[nageov3t]

hopefully never.

people shit on WoW's cartoonish graphics, but I much prefer them to attempts at realism like EQ2.

 

[thespyder]

Oh definitely. I love old school 8 bit games myself. Graphics don't mean anything to me if the game is good. But they do enhance an already good game. And I do really like open world sandbox games like Oblivion et al. and for those types of games graphics do come into play. But certainly art direction and gameplay are FAR FAR FAR more important!

This is kind of my concern. Even if the tech allowed for photorealistic images and environments, I think the hardware necessary (not to mention the coding) to make it a fun and emersive game would be prohibitive.

I would much prefer that game developers work on fun interesting games than ones that look good. But that seems to be where the disconnect is. Games apparently (in the eyes of the Devs) only sell if they "Look Good", which leads to a lot of crap out there. And then add the cap of console compatible, and the higher they push the graphics, the more something else has to give. And usually that means game play.

there are a few exceptions, but the closer you get to that graphics level, the fewer "Good" games there are out there (IMHO).

 

[FancyTurtle]

I'm talking Skyrim type of open sandbox RPG. I think we are close now. Battlefield 3 looks to be getting there graphics wise but it's a shooter. With shooters they can be much more linear, no sandbox world, and reduce things like draw distance. By setting it in the middle east they managed to not have to worry about lush complex vegetation and the like that are a bitch to render at that realism. By photorealistic I don't mean quite indistinguishable from a photo mind you, a little leeway is okay but it's got to be really close.

To make it really clear for the purposes of this thread I mean a few levels beyond Battle Field 3 quality only in a completely open sand box world with uber long draw distances.

this has already happened see, in the 90s the robots rebelled against there creators we tried to stop them but skynet already took over all of our networks. in a desperate attempt to stop the machines we blocked out the suns rays. We thought that without such an abundant power source such as the sun they wouldn't be able to function. WE WERE WRONG.
The machines just found a new power source HUMANS! they use our body heat to power themselves while they keep us locked away in a virtual reality RPG. Im surprised you dont know this it was all in that movie you know INCEPTION

 

[Wyndru]

Also this:

http://pc.ign.com/articles/118/1184814p1.html

Wow. That is amazing. I like the comment:

I bet these photos would make even Rockstar go "Holy s**t"

 

[Mandres]

in my opinion chasing photo-realism is not a worthwhile goal except for hardcore simulation-type games.

For rpg's, beautiful art is much more important than realism.

 

[AstroManLuca]

No monthly fee? That's bullshit and you know it. Sure, you aren't required to pay the developer any money, but you have to spend hundreds of dollars of your own money on in-game items just to keep playing!

 

[FancyTurtle]

No monthly fee? That's bullshit and you know it. Sure, you aren't required to pay the developer any money, but you have to spend hundreds of dollars of your own money on in-game items just to keep playing!

nah its free its just if you want any of the cool stuff they bilk you with micro transactions like every other FTP MMO

 

[PrayForDeath]

nah its free its just if you want any of the cool stuff they bilk you with micro transactions like every other FTP MMO

And the in-game advertising is atrocious.

 

[HeXen]

and there are no save games or continues if you die.

good review here
http://thudfactor.com/outside-mmorpg-reviewed-d/

This is apparently because getting killed in the game actually removes you from the game forever. What genius thought that one up?