How long do unused HDs last in storage?

[VirtualLarry]

Just wondering. I need to stock up on IDE HDs, in order to keep my computer running for the next ten years. Since most HDs last three years or more, that means that my current stockpile of 3 500GB IDE HDs will last mostly twelve years, including the HD that is currently in the machine.

Will HDs kept in storage this long suffer from "sticktion"? Or will they encounter magnetic decay, and lose the low-level formatting information that is put on at the factory?

Will they rust? Will the bearing grease dry out?

 

[yinan]

Wow... I do not know but why do you want to keep a computer running 10 years, by then it will be barely useable. Compare 10 years ago to now...

A better solution would be to back everything up to an external enclosure occasionally.

 

[Team Spicoli]

Originally posted by: VirtualLarry
Just wondering. I need to stock up on IDE HDs, in order to keep my computer running for the next ten years. Since most HDs last three years or more, that means that my current stockpile of 3 500GB IDE HDs will last mostly twelve years, including the HD that is currently in the machine.

Will HDs kept in storage this long suffer from "sticktion"? Or will they encounter magnetic decay, and lose the low-level formatting information that is put on at the factory?

Will they rust? Will the bearing grease dry out?

So you just are curious as to how long internal HD's will remain relatively intact/functional stored OUTSIDE of a computer enclosure with no power/cables connected at all? I just wanted to clarify, because if that is the case, I too am very curious as to the general consensus for this.

I plan on having HD backups that are simply stored in anti-static bags, in cool/dry environments, however based on the one response so far above, it sounds like backing up to an external HD would be ideal, and better than backing up to internal HD's?!

Can anyone else chime in on this? I want to get some sort of reassurance one way or the other before I begin investing time, and money into some sort of backup system for my media files.

Thanks

 

[scruffypup]

I have never seen any kind of testing for this,... and I doubt that anyone would have any data. Think about it,... how many harddrive manufacturers or reviewers will buy a harddrive, let it set for a decade and then test it? Noone would really care about that review and most people would view that as useless information from the manufacturer.

That being said though, I would think most harddrives would last a good decade of not being used, maybe two. I had some from the mid 90's (think 1.2gb, 2.1gb a 4 and 16 last used around 1998-1999 I think) that I had to dig out and use on another system last year due to my 80gb and 45gb drives failing. All of them worked perfectly and I expected them to.

 

[shempf]

google & search for the time it takes for the magnetic to weaken.
I'd base my info off that..

 

[evilbix]

The drives last a long time (somewhere up to 100's of years if stored correctly) from what I remember reading a while ago. The problem is the ability to read the data as time goes on. There is lots of data still intact from the 1960's, however, we face the problem of how to read it.

Granted, the 1960's weren't really a time where computers stored a "ton" of data. I mean, you could convert the files to be used today. However, with all the file formats that are in existence today, and the tremendous amount of data that everyone has, it would be nearly impossible to use it in 20+ years.

Best thing would be to keep your data that is crucial, and keep it in modern file formats so that you will never lose it. I doubt there is much to keep, but that's not for me to know.

*edit* misread the question initially, sorry mind is mush tonight.

You should be absolutely fine with using those hard disks in the future. As long as they are stored properly there will be no problem. However, remember IDE is a dying format. I doubt it will be around by the time your need for them comes to an end. I'd recommend saving an old machine to use it as a file server when the IDE goes the way of ISA

 

[MalVeauX]

Heya,

Drives will last longer than you will live, if stored well. The problem however is that the technology to use those drives will not last that long. By the time you really need to access that data, it's either useless data, or you have to find a dinosaur to access it (which itself may pose problems). IDE is dieing. SATA is pretty much the standard. What if your computer's IDE channels die? They are more likely to die before those drives in this `hypothetical' situation anyways. How do you get new motherboard/controller to read those IDE drives if they're not even made anymore? Or what if the cost is prohibitive? Old tech doesn't get cheaper--it gets more expensive, because demand is gone and supply is halted. In 10 years, buying an IDE controller will be either near impossible to find, or ridiculously priced. To do what? Retrieve a few gigs of data from a decade ago? Data that probably doesn't matter? I make that statement because you're clearly not backing up a bank--you wouldn't be posting here if that was your actual function.

Backing up to drives is a bad idea. Too many things go wrong. Heads crash. Parts decay over time. Various things effect it's ability to actually hold data properly. And again, the hardware to use those drives with fades away faster than the drives do.

If you are looking to backup, you're better off with TAPE backups, not HDD backups. They hold gigs of data as well. They're cheap. You can drop tapes in mud and wash it off and it still works perfectly fine. They're far better backups. The only thing they won't really survive is physical crushing (though even wrinkled and broken, it can be retrieved pretty often!) and won't survive fire (nothing survives fire). They survive water, humidity, etc though. Oh, they won't survive in bleach or sunlight (but again, nothing does, not even rocks). Tape is way smarter for backups. Alternatively, put things on optical Media if you're unsure. Bluray is here, 50gigs of storage per disc. And then there's the even more popular method, off-site internet based storage.

Overall, I seriously recommend you check out TAPE backups. Cheap, work well, and truly backup.

Very best,

 

[Team Spicoli]

Hey Mal,

Thanks again for the input!

In my relatively Newbie experience of HDD backups, I felt that tape backups were best for businesses, etc. . , not ideal for HTPC media storage, however, your post definitely has me thinking twice.

I wouldn't even know where to begin researching into high quality tape backups. Do you personally backup to tape, or HDD?

Thanks

 

[Team Spicoli]

Originally posted by: VirtualLarry
Just wondering. I need to stock up on IDE HDs, in order to keep my computer running for the next ten years. Since most HDs last three years or more, that means that my current stockpile of 3 500GB IDE HDs will last mostly twelve years, including the HD that is currently in the machine.

Will HDs kept in storage this long suffer from "sticktion"? Or will they encounter magnetic decay, and lose the low-level formatting information that is put on at the factory?

Will they rust? Will the bearing grease dry out?

I do agree with the consensus that if you're insistent on using HDD's to backup, go the Sata route vs IDE.

I like MalVeauX's statement when he said that (paraphrasing) as technology get's older and more obsolete, it actually then becomes more expensive. Which is essentially true for most things in life.
With respect to home computing, and data storage, that makes me personally ponder my options now regarding things like, possibly buying more IDE capable hardware now for the existing IDE equipment I have that contains important data, however the equipment cannot be converted to a SATA format. For example, I have some "magic" xboxs that to my knowledge are only compatible with IDE HDD's. I've invested alot of time in those, and what if they go bad in 10+yrs?!?! Oh, the horror. . . .

 

[MalVeauX]

Heya,

Tape backup is for serious backup. Tape drives are not as cheap as consumers are used to. They cost several hundred dollars typically, and more, depending on it's capability in gigs for capacity. The tapes themselves however are very inexpensive. For a backup solution this is cheap and effective. Just understand that there is a difference between backing up important information (like a business) and backing up someone's DVD collection at home. I would not invest in Tape backup just to backup DVDs. That's not cost effective backup because at the end of the tunnel, it would have been cheaper to just buy the actual DVD's and keep them in a folder. But, if I were backing up financial or work related information, having a good secure backup on something like Tape would be well worth the minor investment compared to the expense of truly losing information that could result in thousands and multiples of thousands of damage. It depends on the data itself. Important data needs secure backup, and multiple backups. Media, doesn't need that kind of redundancy--it's not important, changes, and ultimately gets left behind as soon as new media shows up, which is monthly these years...).

I don't backup to Tape myself, because I don't have a reason to have a real backup of anything--no important data here, just media. I keep my media collections on external drives. They last for years and are perfectly fine. If one died on me, I have the DVD discs still, I can just re-digitize them to a new drive. Just sets me back in time, not in actual loss. Images and stuff, I burn to DVD for storage. All of this data, in 10 years, won't matter to me. By then, DVD is likely replaced by something else and I'll be using different media by then anyways. It's just that often times the word `backup' gets tossed around lightly. There is a difference between a real backup and just having some stuff stored for a while that eventually becomes unimportant (like media, which the format of it and quality of it changes so fast, that it's not important to preserve for that long and securely).

Very best,

 

[Team Spicoli]

Thanks again Mal!

Do you stick with WD for external drives, or what are your thoughts of Seagate these days?

Ciao!

 

[MalVeauX]

Heya,

WD tends to focus more on reliability with their drives. SeaGates often outperform them. I prefer reliability over performance when it comes to my external drives. For performance, I use RAID0 small capacity disks and don't care what brand is in there (seagate, WD, hitachi, maxtor, etc, doesn't matter to me at that point, those drives are not meant to last me a while). Also, it depends on how you want to use things externally. I like the enclosures that fantom drives uses. But others may enjoy the look of something else. Image Example @ NewEgg. It's a Fantom Drive branded enclosure option, but the internal HDD is a WD green drive. HDD's don't do offbranding/generics. But enclosures can be from anyone.

Very best,

 

[Team Spicoli]

Hey Mal,

Have you had any issues with the USB/eSATA ports on the Phantom drives not being large enough to fully accommodate inserting the USB/eSATA cable?

 

[MalVeauX]

Heya,

Not at all. And I bought 3rd party cables (longer eSATA cables; cheap ones even). Easy plug in, easy unplug. Flawless connectivity. At this rate, I just buy another Fantom Drive (the green flavor) when I get to the point where my storage needs require more. They're inexpensive for short term (a couple of years) use, and later, if I want, I'll just rip them out of the enclosures and install them into a single rack mount case and RAID them together (note that the drives in these external enclosures are the same as the internal drives you buy, the enclosure is just a house & interface for it to plug into something from outside the case; when it's lost it's effectiveness for your needs, you can take them out of their enclosures and do as you please with them; RAID is a perfect way to take a bunch of older drives and combine them together as a huge capacity inexpensive array of disks). So all my externals are fine for now. Eventually, I'll take them out of the enclosures and make a big array out of them in a computer case likely (like a big RAID5 or RAID6 array, as I mentioned in another post).

Very best,

 

[coolVariable]

Don't use optical media (CD/DVD/Bluray) for long(er) term data storage!
After around 7-12 years the optical media begins to rot.
Been there ... seen it happen. Very frustrating!

 

[tcsenter]

Originally posted by: VirtualLarry
Will HDs kept in storage this long suffer from "sticktion"? Or will they encounter magnetic decay, and lose the low-level formatting information that is put on at the factory? Will they rust? Will the bearing grease dry out?

Yes, they will do all of that...eventually. Sort of like, all bleeding stops...eventually.

Larry, you're killing me with this I will soon be entering the sealed time capsule that I've constructed underground at an undisclosed location to wait out the conclusion of Armageddon (or I run out of filters that turn urine into potable water, whichever comes first). Gathering up some last minute provisions and need to know how long/many/much...

What are you doing? Have you tried those SATA to IDE converters? Those should be around for a few more years.

 

[Team Spicoli]

Originally posted by: MalVeauX
Heya,

Not at all. And I bought 3rd party cables (longer eSATA cables; cheap ones even). Easy plug in, easy unplug. Flawless connectivity. At this rate, I just buy another Fantom Drive (the green flavor) when I get to the point where my storage needs require more. They're inexpensive for short term (a couple of years) use, and later, if I want, I'll just rip them out of the enclosures and install them into a single rack mount case and RAID them together (note that the drives in these external enclosures are the same as the internal drives you buy, the enclosure is just a house & interface for it to plug into something from outside the case; when it's lost it's effectiveness for your needs, you can take them out of their enclosures and do as you please with them; RAID is a perfect way to take a bunch of older drives and combine them together as a huge capacity inexpensive array of disks). So all my externals are fine for now. Eventually, I'll take them out of the enclosures and make a big array out of them in a computer case likely (like a big RAID5 or RAID6 array, as I mentioned in another post).

Very best,

Please clarify something for me, in reading several of your informative posts, I came away thinking that external drives are the way to go for storing backup copies of media/data, and that RAID arrays are more about uptime, and not best suited for long-term storage. So when you state above that eventually you may take the drives out of their enclosures, and set them up in a RAID array, I'm confused as to why you would go from using external drives for long-term storage, and then turn around, and use those same drives in a RAID setup where the longevity of the stored data could be significantly more compromised? Am I making sense?
Unless I am to assume that you would maintain the newly setup RAID array for uptime (streaming??) purposes, and then reinvest in more external drives for long-term storage??!
I just want to make sure I'm on the right track, and I stay that way.
Thanks Mal!!

 

[SunSamurai]

Originally posted by: coolVariable
Don't use optical media (CD/DVD/Bluray) for long(er) term data storage!
After around 7-12 years the optical media begins to rot.
Been there ... seen it happen. Very frustrating!

Yeah if you use crappy media. People that pay for cheap media then store them on some random shelf in their home, and are surprised when it doesn't work well a couple years later need to be smacked.

I have CDs over 10 years old (mainly games/music iso rips) and DVDs over 8 (mainly movies/game rips)

They all work fine. Store them in a place that is recommended for optical media storage in soft cases.

Do research before lumping all optical media in one bag.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Originally posted by: tcsenter
Larry, you're killing me with this I will soon be entering the sealed time capsule that I've constructed underground at an undisclosed location to wait out the conclusion of Armageddon (or I run out of filters that turn urine into potable water, whichever comes first). Gathering up some last minute provisions and need to know how long/many/much...

LOL. Incidentally, do you know of any deals on those sorts of filters? Do they exist? Might be handy to keep around, you never know what's going to happen.

Originally posted by: tcsenter
What are you doing? Have you tried those SATA to IDE converters? Those should be around for a few more years.

Yeah, I thought of those after I posted this thread. Given that those exist, this thread is kind of silly. If I can just buy a SATA drive and one of those adaptors and plug them in, then I guess I should be set.

Btw, anyone know of a source for working (in good or better condition) 5.25" floppy drives? I had a request from someone looking for one, they still have some floppies they want to use.

(I have a combo 3.5"/5.25" floppy drive somewhere, but I don't want to get rid of it.)

I gotta stock up on 3.5" floppies soon too.

 

[Team Spicoli]

Originally posted by: Team Spicoli

Originally posted by: MalVeauX
Heya,

Not at all. And I bought 3rd party cables (longer eSATA cables; cheap ones even). Easy plug in, easy unplug. Flawless connectivity. At this rate, I just buy another Fantom Drive (the green flavor) when I get to the point where my storage needs require more. They're inexpensive for short term (a couple of years) use, and later, if I want, I'll just rip them out of the enclosures and install them into a single rack mount case and RAID them together (note that the drives in these external enclosures are the same as the internal drives you buy, the enclosure is just a house & interface for it to plug into something from outside the case; when it's lost it's effectiveness for your needs, you can take them out of their enclosures and do as you please with them; RAID is a perfect way to take a bunch of older drives and combine them together as a huge capacity inexpensive array of disks). So all my externals are fine for now. Eventually, I'll take them out of the enclosures and make a big array out of them in a computer case likely (like a big RAID5 or RAID6 array, as I mentioned in another post).

Very best,

Please clarify something for me, in reading several of your informative posts, I came away thinking that external drives are the way to go for storing backup copies of media/data, and that RAID arrays are more about uptime, and not best suited for long-term storage. So when you state above that eventually you may take the drives out of their enclosures, and set them up in a RAID array, I'm confused as to why you would go from using external drives for long-term storage, and then turn around, and use those same drives in a RAID setup where the longevity of the stored data could be significantly more compromised? Am I making sense?
Unless I am to assume that you would maintain the newly setup RAID array for uptime (streaming??) purposes, and then reinvest in more external drives for long-term storage??!
I just want to make sure I'm on the right track, and I stay that way.
Thanks Mal!!

Hey Mal,

Can you give me some more clarification about this?

Thanks

 

[MalVeauX]

Originally posted by: Team Spicoli
Please clarify something for me, in reading several of your informative posts, I came away thinking that external drives are the way to go for storing backup copies of media/data, and that RAID arrays are more about uptime, and not best suited for long-term storage.

1. So when you state above that eventually you may take the drives out of their enclosures, and set them up in a RAID array, I'm confused as to why you would go from using external drives for long-term storage, and then turn around, and use those same drives in a RAID setup where the longevity of the stored data could be significantly more compromised? Am I making sense?

Unless I am to assume that you would maintain the newly setup RAID array for uptime (streaming??) purposes, and then reinvest in more external drives for long-term storage??!
I just want to make sure I'm on the right track, and I stay that way.
Thanks Mal!!

Heya,

Sure.

I mention that later you can take apart the enclosure and use the drives internally, because frankly, I wouldn't expect to keep all the data on externals anyway. How long do you think it will be before eSATA connections go the way of the dodo? When's the last time you saw an IDE external connection? It only takes about 10 years before you see a protocol like this die and go away. By then, the tech is expensive because no one wants it and it's not being produced anymore. You will likely change storage methods over time. Thinking you'll hold onto some data set on an old backup system for like 50 years is not realistic. Especially not when talking about HDD's. They do fail over time. They can serve as a good way to store stuff for a while, but then you'll find a cheaper and larger capacity way to store things in a few more years as it comes out (like SSD's, they're getting bigger... and bigger... no moving parts... chance to fail? For storage? Very tiny! Think about that). So naturally, instead of throwing the drives away, you could at least put them to use in a server or something, like an old cheap NAS.

It's computers; every time you think you figure out a solution, something new will come out and you'll likely want to change something. SSD's are coming fast. They're going up in capacity fast. They're expensive right now. But once they hit that mass production peak, the prices will plummet and you'll see them where the Platter HDD's are of right now. And when that happens, there will be near no point of having a non-SSD drive so long as capacities keep going up on them (they're at half a terabyte already for consumer purchase, in a year or two, they'll be larger capacity than platter based HDD's, easily, and they're only 2.5" instead of 3.5", so think of a bigger SSD with massive capacity--it's only about two years away likely).

Hope that makes sense.

I use eSATA externals now because they're cheap, effective, and I can use them for other things later (like pulling them out and using them internally in a NAS). But I don't look at them as something to store for 10+ years. I know that after 2 or 3 years, if even that, I'll have a new storage method to use that is better and larger capacity.

Very best,

 

[SP33Demon]

Static State Drives.

 

[Team Spicoli]

Thanks again Mal!