How long before home computers have 1 TB of RAM?

[Chaotic42]

Remember free equals no support. Windows Server also doesn't cost 20000. At my work we can get Windows Server 2008 Enterprise R2 for around $1600 a licensce. When you start paying for Red Hat Enterprise Licensces for with support the price differential goes way down. Both Windows Server 2008 and Linux have their place in the data center. However I don't think many admins would install a free version of Linux on a mission critical server.

True. I know it may seem like I was trolling, but I've never dealt with high-end Windows servers before. Also, I love your avatar. Most awesome airframe ever.

 

[Brovane]

True. I know it may seem like I was trolling, but I've never dealt with high-end Windows servers before. Also, I love your avatar. Most awesome airframe ever.

Thank you. For some reason a lot of people cannot identify it. Not going into production for the B-70 was one in a long line of poor decisions by Sec of Defense Robert McNamarra. What can you say about 1/2 Million pounds of plane cruising the skys at Mach 3+. All this on 1960's tech.

 

[Brovane]

I used to be a Linux nerd with that mindset...why not free? Why not DIY? And that's exactly it...support. Right now I have over 200 users, 100+ desktops, 10 servers, and no free time. Buying reliable plug & play equipment like Dell servers with Windows Server OS (yes, I used to scoff at "reliable" and Windows), Sonicwall, etc., with paid support is awesome, if your company has the budget for it...and if it's mission critical, they better have the budget for it, or you better be dang good at *nix :biggrin:

Linux has it's place in the enterprise. We have serveral oracle boxes that run RHEL for the base OS and they are rock solid. Or Cisco Call Managers run Linux. However we have some to call for support. I am always suspicious of free. I am part of a team that support 150+ Windows servers in 3 different data centers all running on Dell Equipment. MS has come a long way from Windows NT 4.0 server days. Overall Server 2008 is very rock solid and Server 2003 isn't bad.

From what it sounds are you in a solo shop, doing everthing yourself? Also once management gets us to free they don't want to switch back to paying for software.

 

[Red Squirrel]

I have a serious question here. Why would you not use Unix on an enterprise server? I don't work on servers, and the last time I did we used just about one of every Unix under the sun. What does Windows Enterprise do for $20,000 that Linux couldn't do for free?

I always wondered the same thing. But managers look at numbers. If it's very expensive and comes from a big company it must be better than something that's made by a bunch of college dropouts in their parents' basement. (the way they see it)

When I worked in server support it used to frustrate me. So many problems that could have easily been solved with Linux or a few hundred lines of custom code, but they insisted on going the MS/commercial route. Their big thing was always "but what if there's a problem?" Uhh we'll fix it, that's what we're paid to do. They did not see it that way though. They think that because it's commercial it magically wont have any problems and if there are they're magically fixed. Some of the commercial solutions have TERRIBLE support. MS support is not that bad, but when you get into some medical apps and stuff, the support is terrible. The funny thing with medical apps is they are basically a front end to a database. Very easy to code using php/mysql.

If I was starting a new company I'd choose the Linux route. It may be a tad harder to setup at first but once you have a proper platform/setup going that is customize to your company's needs, it's smooth sailing. The money you spend extra on time, you save 10x in (lack of) licensing cost.

 

[vi edit]

I always wondered the same thing. But managers look at numbers. If it's very expensive and comes from a big company it must be better than something that's made by a bunch of college dropouts in their parents' basement. (the way they see it) When I worked in server support it used to frustrate me. So many problems that could have easily been solved with Linux or a few hundred lines of custom code, but they insisted on going the MS/commercial route. Their big thing was always "but what if there's a problem?" Uhh we'll fix it, that's what we're paid to do. They did not see it that way though. They think that because it's commercial it magically wont have any problems and if there are they're magically fixed. Some of the commercial solutions have TERRIBLE support. MS support is not that bad, but when you get into some medical apps and stuff, the support is terrible. The funny thing with medical apps is they are basically a front end to a database. Very easy to code using php/mysql.

Think of it this way....if an app goes to shit during an upgrade or an extended downtime somebody is *GOING* to get lit up by administration. They don't care about "why". Just when is it going to get fixed and who was responsible for it.

If it's a vendor app then you can torch the vendor and unload on them. Maybe they'll fix it. Maybe they won't. At the very least you can torch a manager or product rep for the company for the issues. At the most you can ditch them for another vendor. If someone at the vendor gets fired noone really gives a shit. Or even knows.

Now if you have it developed "in house" and you have the same problem, you have no one to blame but your own employee. You now put a manager in the position of lighting up their own employee and possibly having to fire them instead of deflecting rage on a vendor. Managers really don't want to be in that position.

You don't want to be in that position if it's your system.

 

[Red Squirrel]

I used to be a Linux nerd with that mindset...why not free? Why not DIY? And that's exactly it...support. Right now I have over 200 users, 100+ desktops, 10 servers, and no free time. Buying reliable plug & play equipment like Dell servers with Windows Server OS (yes, I used to scoff at "reliable" and Windows), Sonicwall, etc., with paid support is awesome, if your company has the budget for it...and if it's mission critical, they better have the budget for it, or you better be dang good at *nix :biggrin:

Every try calling some of that support? Now keep in mind you are paid to support the environment, so all the basic day to day troubleshooting you probably fix yourself. Now if you run into a really complex issue, you wont find that much online, and when you call support, they probably wont be able to help you much. Windows itself is not that bad, when when you get into stuff like exchange server the amount of online resources is very minimum compared to something like postfix for example. Also companies will find any reason to not support you such as your version being too old, or if you are virtualizing (lot of companies wont support if their product is in a VM). There is lot of fine prints to support contracts. They're not useless, but they're not as great and magical as some make it out to be. The key is, if you go commercial, you pretty much need to get the highest level support possible or it's not worth it.

Now when it comes to hardware, I do think if the budget allows it it's a good idea to go with Dell and such vs building your own. The main reason is they can get a part to you faster than you'll ever be able to order from any store yourself and their parts will be obtainable for a longer time. Motherboard goes bad? They'll have it to you in 4 hours. Motherboard goes bad in a white box server? You'll be waiting a week or so till it arrives from NCIX or other online store assuming they still make it and that you can still get it. Seems hardware changes on a weekly/monthly basis so you either wont be able to find the same part again a month later, or it will be another revision.

 

[Red Squirrel]

Think of it this way....if an app goes to shit during an upgrade or an extended downtime somebody is *GOING* to get lit up by administration. They don't care about "why". Just when is it going to get fixed and who was responsible for it.

If it's a vendor app then you can torch the vendor and unload on them. Maybe they'll fix it. Maybe they won't. At the very least you can torch a manager or product rep for the company for the issues. At the most you can ditch them for another vendor. If someone at the vendor gets fired noone really gives a shit. Or even knows.

Now if you have it developed "in house" and you have the same problem, you have no one to blame but your own employee. You now put a manager in the position of lighting up their own employee and possibly having to fire them instead of deflecting rage on a vendor. Managers really don't want to be in that position.

You don't want to be in that position if it's your system.

That is true, and happened allot where I worked. Though this is more a political BS thing, than a technical thing, but it is a valid point.

 

[vi edit]

Every try calling some of that support? Now keep in mind you are paid to support the environment, so all the basic day to day troubleshooting you probably fix yourself. Now if you run into a really complex issue, you wont find that much online, and when you call support, they probably wont be able to help you much. Windows itself is not that bad, when when you get into stuff like exchange server the amount of online resources is very minimum compared to something like postfix for example. Also companies will find any reason to not support you such as your version being too old, or if you are virtualizing (lot of companies wont support if their product is in a VM). There is lot of fine prints to support contracts. They're not useless, but they're not as great and magical as some make it out to be. The key is, if you go commercial, you pretty much need to get the highest level support possible or it's not worth it.

I'm sorry but I work in a reasonably large IT organization, deal with vendors on a daily basis, and have done my share of server admin and support and I simply do not agree with this.

 

[spidey07]

I'm sorry but I work in a reasonably large IT organization, deal with vendors on a daily basis, and have done my share of server admin and support and I simply do not agree with this.

2nd. You pay for support, you call, you say fix, if they don't fix then you don't pay. I want a tech onsite now, with every resource available to them, be it parts, be it whateverthehell it is - you fix, you fix now.

2 hour response, tech on site with part, MTTR of 4 hour.

 

[vi edit]

2nd. You pay for support, you call, you say fix, if they don't fix then you don't pay. I want a tech onsite now, with every resource available to them, be it parts, be it whateverthehell it is - you fix, you fix now.

2 hour response, tech on site with part, MTTR of 4 hour.

That's just the hardware side. On the software side, if you are a large enough company you throw your weight around. If you have a large upgrade coming you tell the vendor that you want onsite support and a contact list people from their in house support tree available if things go bad. You can ask for site visits of other similar organizations with the product installed. If you have to comply to certain legal standards then it's up to vendor to be accountable for providing those updates/support and not your own crew.

Just so many things that "open source" kids don't think about.

 

[TakeNoPrisoners]

Actually, Newegg has 2x8GB of Super Talent DDR3 1333MHz for $82 right now.

And I see there are a few MSI X79 boards that support a maximum of 128GB of RAM!

1TB maximum supported RAM on a consumer board may be less than 10 years away.

Supported is different from common use. Not many people are maxing out their motherboards with 32GB of RAM.

8GB is just now becoming standard.

 

[child of wonder]

Supported is different from common use. Not many people are maxing out their motherboards with 32GB of RAM.

8GB is just now becoming standard.

That's why I've been adding the qualifier "maximum supported RAM."

We may some consumer motherboards that support up to 1TB of RAM in less than 10 years but it may be 15 years before it becomes commonplace.

 

[Brovane]

2nd. You pay for support, you call, you say fix, if they don't fix then you don't pay. I want a tech onsite now, with every resource available to them, be it parts, be it whateverthehell it is - you fix, you fix now.

2 hour response, tech on site with part, MTTR of 4 hour.

I second this one. Where I work we spend a lot of money with MS. We have over 50,000+ Employees. We have had Exchange Issues before where literally Engineers in Redmond have been jumping on planes to fly to or Corporate HQ to troubleshoot the issue with Messaging Team.
Several years ago we had a nasty issue with a Server 2003 file cluster that would sometimes random ally lock up. We opened a support case with MS and they gathered log files the next time it locked up. They literally had a team sit down with the data and go over it. Within 48-hours they had a recommended fix(registry change) and we have never had that issue with that cluster again. It is still in production running with that fix, 4years later. Never had that issue again.

You need that support contract for mission critical systems. Systems can get so complicated now that you need the advice of people that spend all day inside of the system.

 

[Crono]

Servers and networks are going to get a lot more RAM if cloud computing continues to grow (and it will).

4GB has been enough for most desktops for a while now. I have 8GB in my system, but it's rare that I actually use beyond 3GB.

 

[T_Yamamoto]

Servers and networks are going to get a lot more RAM if cloud computing continues to grow (and it will).

4GB has been enough for most desktops for a while now. I have 8GB in my system, but it's rare that I actually use beyond 3GB.

Cloud servers will be using 1tb sooner or later.

 

[FelixDeCat]

Servers and networks are going to get a lot more RAM if cloud computing continues to grow (and it will).

4GB has been enough for most desktops for a while now. I have 8GB in my system, but it's rare that I actually use beyond 3GB.

As mentioned in the OP I use a 2gb ramdrive. Add in overhead and caching, and that leaves about 3.5gb out of 8gb for use.

The ramdrive is for browser cache, pagefile, temporary storage for files with privacy all at the highest speed possible. If I had 16gb I would increase the drive to 4gb and so on.

 

[Modelworks]

The holy grail of computing is to remove the concept of storage , as in hard drives, and replace ram and storage with one unified memory. Computers would ship with 3TB of memory and that would be used for both program storage when the computer is off and volatile ram when powered on. The concepts of paging files, temp drives, etc , all would be done away with . The memory being suggested is phase change memory. It is immune to interference , last a very long time and the performance is very high. Right now the issue is getting the cost down enough to make it viable.
http://www.engadget.com/2011/06/30/embargo-ibm-develops-instantaneous-memory-100x-faster-than-fl/