How legal is this?

[FelixDeCat]

Originally posted by: sao123
This law does not lay claim to the underlined statement.
This law only applies if BOTH A and B are true... not A or B.

It does not say you cannot take photo/video without the other person's consent, it says you cannot take photo/video without the other person's consent if it was with intent to arouse or gratify the sexual desire of any person.


I refer you to the Photographers Rights

Actually that was kind of my point, who gets to determine what was meant to sexually gratify or not? If you have something like an upskirt pic, I think that leaves you wide open, but lets say you are taking pictures at an event and of the crowd in general. At first glance you dont see anything, but if you start to think another way, Im sure with a perverted mind you can probably point out all sorts of goodies. That is more of a thought crime if anything.

While you are right it might not necessarily apply as much if you walk into a walmart and start video taping for some reason, but heaven help you if a woman in a tight skirt drops something in front of you.

 

[MixMasterTang]

I believe there are also differences in videos/photos used for Commercial use vs. just taking pictures or videos in public.

 

[DisgruntledVirus]

Originally posted by: MixMasterTang
I believe there are also differences in videos/photos used for Commercial use vs. just taking pictures or videos in public.

There are.

For profit, and non-for profit video/photos are subject to a little different laws, with for-profit having stricter rules and regulations.

 

[Vette73]

Originally posted by: MixMasterTang
I believe there are also differences in videos/photos used for Commercial use vs. just taking pictures or videos in public.

This was not a public place, but Private Prop.

 

[Deviant Grasshopper]

tagged

 

[Vette73]

Originally posted by: Deviant Grasshopper
tagged

Tagged back, you're it.

😕

 

[DisgruntledVirus]

Originally posted by: Marlin1975

Originally posted by: MixMasterTang
I believe there are also differences in videos/photos used for Commercial use vs. just taking pictures or videos in public.

This was not a public place, but Private Prop.

But unless there were signs stating "no photography", and/or was asked to leave it's still legal because there is no reasonable expectation of privacy in Home Depot/Lowes.

 

[Q]

someone cliff note what exactly the video is about?

 

[Paladin3]

Let me address some misconceptions floating around this thread:

You do not need permission to photo/video people in public in the US. Anything you can see from a public place is fair game to photograph, as long as that person has no ?reasonable expectation of privacy?. For example: you can stand on the sidewalk and legally photograph someone working out in clear public view in the window of a health club, but you cannot photograph someone in their home through a tiny slit accidentally left open in their front drapes. The later has a reasonable expectation of privacy, while the former does not. If you end up using the photo/video for commercial purposes then you do need a modeling release, which is why you see blurred faces in the background on TV shows like cops and Jackass.

A cop cannot stop you and check or seize your photos/videos unless he reasonably believes you are in the commission of a crime. For example: if he sees you coming out of the women's restroom at the park with a video camera in your hand and turned on he then has reason to check your video to see what you have been taping. BTW, nothing stops a smart cop with or without cause from ASKING if he can see your photos/videos, just remember you have the right to say no.

A store like Home Depot is private property, so is the parking lot. The owners allow shoppers to come on property for the purpose of conducting business and when that business is done they withdraw that permission. Look around and you will surely find a sign stating such. This permission to enter the private property to conduct business does NOT allow you to enter and take photos or video inside the store. You need permission to do that because it is private property and taking photos or video is not part of conducting normal business.

Some of these issues revolves around the difference between commercial use and editorial use of the photos or video. Anyone (even private citizens) can shoot video/photos from public property and post them on the Internet as an editorial statement. Selling the photos/videos as a commercial venture is what you need permission for. As for porn, I just don?t know. I never shot any, but I would assume you need a signed release regardless, and if you are doing it without the subject?s knowledge it?s a crime.

And I?m not a lawyer either, but I was a photojournalist for 13 years and shot and published a lot of photos without the subject?s consent.

 

[Perknose]

Originally posted by: Quintox
someone cliff note what exactly the video is about?

Great idea. Do it, and pm me when you post it.

 

[Triumph]

Originally posted by: Raizinman
Celeb's and public officials are pretty much immune from public pictures or liable. That is why Jay Leno can criticize the president or the Gov everynight on TV. He can't do that with Mr. John Doe a private citizen. Once you are a public figure, you lose certain rights and can be photographed and spoken about any which way. The reason why some faces in reality shows are blurred out is because they can be recongnized. Obviously, state law varies on this in each state, but this is pretty much the law of the land.

To go into Home Depot to start photographing people, could easily bring about a lawsuit from either Home Depot or any of the people photographed. There is a thing called a 'release' which allows a person to be photographed. Without a release, the photographer opens himself up to a lawsuit. If you have ever watched the TV show Jackass, you will always see peoples faces blurred out. The only ones not blurred out are people they have obtained a release from. (None of the above was meant to be legal advice).

😕 Most nonsensical, non factual rambling I've seen in a while. "Lose certain rights" because you're a public figure? Um, no. The same "rule" that allows Jay Leno to criticize the president is the same "rule" that allows me to say this: You're an idiot.

 

[bluestrobe]

Originally posted by: Perknose

Great idea. Do it, and pm me when you post it.

Originally posted by: Quintox
someone cliff note what exactly the video is about?

Originally posted by: DisgruntledVirus

OP is asking about the legality of the recording of the video.

The video is a guy is open carrying into Home Depot/Lowes, and a friend is recording it. The guy bitches about something about carrying weapons (I didn't watch it, because OP's question doesn't need the video to be watched to answer), and they don't blur out any of the employees/customers faces. OP is asking if it was legal to record the video.

The author of the video likes to challenge those who aren't fully knowledgeable in his rights. His current trend is open carry of a firearm in Washington (legal in that state) into private businesses and "educating" the staff on his rights.

 

[Oceandevi]

So why did he go into the store and bother them? They seemed confused as to his purpose. With the bad audio I may have missed what he said his purpose was.

 

[mugs]

Originally posted by: bluestrobe
The author of the video likes to challenge those who aren't fully knowledgeable in his rights. His current trend is open carry of a firearm in Washington (legal in that state) into private businesses and "educating" the staff on his rights.

He has the right to open carry, but are businesses prohibited from refusing to let him in if he is open carrying?

 

[bobdole369]

With something like this - the first thing a court determines is whether or not there was a reasonable expectation of privacy. (i.e. was it in a bathroom? Was it in someones office not normally trampled over by the public?) If not - the cameraman is free to do what he pleases. The property owner is free to tell him to GTFO - and arrest for trespassing if they refuse. I see no reason why anyone should edit anything. However if he is getting paid or promoting his own product with that video he has to pay royalties to the folks he taped or get model releases.

Move along nothing groundbreaking here.

 

[skyking]

Originally posted by: bluestrobe

Originally posted by: Perknose

Great idea. Do it, and pm me when you post it.

Originally posted by: Quintox
someone cliff note what exactly the video is about?

Originally posted by: DisgruntledVirus

OP is asking about the legality of the recording of the video.

The video is a guy is open carrying into Home Depot/Lowes, and a friend is recording it. The guy bitches about something about carrying weapons (I didn't watch it, because OP's question doesn't need the video to be watched to answer), and they don't blur out any of the employees/customers faces. OP is asking if it was legal to record the video.

The author of the video likes to challenge those who aren't fully knowledgeable in his rights. His current trend is open carry of a firearm in Washington (legal in that state) into private businesses and "educating" the staff on his rights.

somebody needs to tell this guy he is being an asshole, some customer and not the staff.

 

[PrinceofWands]

Originally posted by: mugs

Originally posted by: bluestrobe
The author of the video likes to challenge those who aren't fully knowledgeable in his rights. His current trend is open carry of a firearm in Washington (legal in that state) into private businesses and "educating" the staff on his rights.

He has the right to open carry, but are businesses prohibited from refusing to let him in if he is open carrying?

No, they can ask anyone to leave. It has to be treated as a general trespass however, not a restriction on carry. It's why they frequently won't, even if they disagree with it. It's not worth losing a customer over. You can't get into actual trouble for carrying legally, regardless of property owner wishes. The best they can do is trespass you after the fact.

 

[TechnoWeenie]

I'm 'the guy' in question...


Axe to grind much??



Here's the word, straight from the horses mouth so to speak...

In WA, open carry of a pistol is completely legal, however it's not something that is very common, and not a lot of people are even aware it's legal. As such, sometimes the police are called when they don't need to be.

I have had previous incidents of management of various stores not abiding by their corporate policy (which mostly state that they go by state law, so if it's legal, it's OK). In addition, being that employees aren't always aware of the law, it's important, IMO, to politely and professionally inform them of what state law is, and what corporate policy is, so I don't get an ill informed employee or manager calling the police about something that's completely legal, or kicking me out of the store against policy.

This guy 'bluestrobe' is nothing more than someone with an axe to grind, attempting to see if it's against the law to record in public, in an attempt to get me in trouble. I already told him that there is no expectation of privacy in public, no need to blur out faces, or anything of that nature.

Anyone that watches the video can see I'm very polite, not at all overbearing or demeaning, and just presenting the information in a friendly manner.

It makes FAR more sense to introduce yourself and explain what you're doing/trying to accomplish (awareness of the law, and firearms in general) by being a rational, logical, friendly person, unlike 'bluestrobe' which appears to have a vindictive nature.

The overall goal is to make people realize that normal people carry guns too, not just cops and bad guys. Most people watch news and associate guns with murderers and rapists, this just isn't the case.. More guns are used PROTECTING life every year than there are that take life. The more people they see walking around doing everyday activities, the more they realize that regular people, shopping, walking their dog, coaching their sons baseball game, all carry.

Hell, in WA, something like 1/5 people in the state have concealed carry permits.. Can you imagine lining up 10 people and thinking that TWO are probably going to be legally armed? These same people you go to church with, hang out with at work, or have a beer with after work, are the same people who wish to protect themselves, their family, and our right to bear arms.


We organize picnics, dinners/lunches, clean up forest areas, even adopt highways which we clean regularly. We're not social rejects hiding in underground bunkers with stockpiles of weapons and canned food, we're normal every day people.

www.opencarry.org

-John

 

[pstylesss]

Originally posted by: TechnoWeenie
I'm 'the guy' in question...
...snip...
www.opencarry.org

-John

Nice info John. I live in WA and I knew all that. I intend to open carry and concealed carry in a few months. We're not discussing the legalities of open carry as it changes from state to state. Had you read the thread you would have found out we were discussing the legalities of you filming these people and not editing the picture to hide their face.

Which Home Depot did you do this in? I'm in the Tacoma area.

 

[zerocool84]

Originally posted by: TechnoWeenie
I'm 'the guy' in question...


Axe to grind much??



Here's the word, straight from the horses mouth so to speak...

In WA, open carry of a pistol is completely legal, however it's not something that is very common, and not a lot of people are even aware it's legal. As such, sometimes the police are called when they don't need to be.

I have had previous incidents of management of various stores not abiding by their corporate policy (which mostly state that they go by state law, so if it's legal, it's OK). In addition, being that employees aren't always aware of the law, it's important, IMO, to politely and professionally inform them of what state law is, and what corporate policy is, so I don't get an ill informed employee or manager calling the police about something that's completely legal, or kicking me out of the store against policy.

This guy 'bluestrobe' is nothing more than someone with an axe to grind, attempting to see if it's against the law to record in public, in an attempt to get me in trouble. I already told him that there is no expectation of privacy in public, no need to blur out faces, or anything of that nature.

Anyone that watches the video can see I'm very polite, not at all overbearing or demeaning, and just presenting the information in a friendly manner.

It makes FAR more sense to introduce yourself and explain what you're doing/trying to accomplish (awareness of the law, and firearms in general) by being a rational, logical, friendly person, unlike 'bluestrobe' which appears to have a vindictive nature.

The overall goal is to make people realize that normal people carry guns too, not just cops and bad guys. Most people watch news and associate guns with murderers and rapists, this just isn't the case.. More guns are used PROTECTING life every year than there are that take life. The more people they see walking around doing everyday activities, the more they realize that regular people, shopping, walking their dog, coaching their sons baseball game, all carry.

Hell, in WA, something like 1/5 people in the state have concealed carry permits.. Can you imagine lining up 10 people and thinking that TWO are probably going to be legally armed? These same people you go to church with, hang out with at work, or have a beer with after work, are the same people who wish to protect themselves, their family, and our right to bear arms.


We organize picnics, dinners/lunches, clean up forest areas, even adopt highways which we clean regularly. We're not social rejects hiding in underground bunkers with stockpiles of weapons and canned food, we're normal every day people.

www.opencarry.org

-John

Umm wouldn't it be better to send a letter or something to their corporate offices so they can let the stores know about this instead of going into the stores and creating a scene which you knew would happen? Sorry but that's just being an ass in my book. This could have been done in so many different ways as to not create any drama. Seems like you just wanted the attention more so than trying to "teach" people about certain laws.

 

[TechnoWeenie]

Originally posted by: zerocool84

Umm wouldn't it be better to send a letter or something to their corporate offices so they can let the stores know about this instead of going into the stores and creating a scene which you knew would happen? Sorry but that's just being an ass in my book. This could have been done in so many different ways as to not create any drama. Seems like you just wanted the attention more so than trying to "teach" people about certain laws.

Yes and no. Usually issues like these get put on a back burner - noone wants to deal with them. A scene was not created as no camera was visible. It was between the manager, myself, and two other employees at customer service, along with a customer or two that may have walked past...

If you watched the video, you'd see that there was no drama, it was a very relaxed non-event.



Here's the law in WA, case law also upholds the decision. PRIVATE conversations are protected, public ones are not.

RCW 9.73.030
Intercepting, recording, or divulging private communication ? Consent required ? Exceptions.

(1) Except as otherwise provided in this chapter, it shall be unlawful for any individual, partnership, corporation, association, or the state of Washington, its agencies, and political subdivisions to intercept, or record any:

(a) Private communication transmitted by telephone, telegraph, radio, or other device between two or more individuals between points within or without the state by any device electronic or otherwise designed to record and/or transmit said communication regardless how such device is powered or actuated, without first obtaining the consent of all the participants in the communication;

(b) Private conversation, by any device electronic or otherwise designed to record or transmit such conversation regardless how the device is powered or actuated without first obtaining the consent of all the persons engaged in the conversation.

(2) Notwithstanding subsection (1) of this section, wire communications or conversations (a) of an emergency nature, such as the reporting of a fire, medical emergency, crime, or disaster, or (b) which convey threats of extortion, blackmail, bodily harm, or other unlawful requests or demands, or (c) which occur anonymously or repeatedly or at an extremely inconvenient hour, or (d) which relate to communications by a hostage holder or barricaded person as defined in RCW 70.85.100, whether or not conversation ensues, may be recorded with the consent of one party to the conversation.

(3) Where consent by all parties is needed pursuant to this chapter, consent shall be considered obtained whenever one party has announced to all other parties engaged in the communication or conversation, in any reasonably effective manner, that such communication or conversation is about to be recorded or transmitted: PROVIDED, That if the conversation is to be recorded that said announcement shall also be recorded.

(4) An employee of any regularly published newspaper, magazine, wire service, radio station, or television station acting in the course of bona fide news gathering duties on a full-time or contractual or part-time basis, shall be deemed to have consent to record and divulge communications or conversations otherwise prohibited by this chapter if the consent is expressly given or if the recording or transmitting device is readily apparent or obvious to the speakers. Withdrawal of the consent after the communication has been made shall not prohibit any such employee of a newspaper, magazine, wire service, or radio or television station from divulging the communication or conversation

This was not a private conversation, to the contrary, it was very public.

 

[Whoozyerdaddy]

The guy is a douche.

You can tell he's a whacko from the states. When I lived in Alaska it was common for guys to CC all the time. Guns in stores, guns in public places... you just assumed that wherever you were there was a guy with a gun around. Go to a bar and count the snowmobiles... That's how many guns (at least) there were in the bar. Nobody ever whipped it out to make a point about gun rights. Everybody just understood.

I hate people who put other unassuming people on the spot to prove a point. Douchery at its worst...

Originally posted by: TechnoWeenie

Just looked up a few posts... Yes I'm talking about you.

 

[TallBill]

Originally posted by: TechnoWeenie

This was not a private conversation, to the contrary, it was very public.

Still an asshat move to make. I don't come into your work, talk to you about stuff and video tape it.

 

[JEDIYoda]

Originally posted by: bluestrobe
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kpjn2eexE38

Long story short, this guy has an agenda to prove his firearm rights. He also likes attention so he posted this video on another forum and got flamed for it. I am mainly wondering if it was lawful to tape it as he did. He refuses to edit the faces and names out saying he had the right to keep them there since it was in a public place. For the record I am not him or his friend. Thoughts?

depends on the state....
You need to have written concent of all partys to video tape them.
Most people don`t care......yet if he was to post that on You tube and you contacted You tube and told them he did not have your permisdsion to video tape you, then You Tube would yank his video!!

 

[Wheezer]

Originally posted by: TechnoWeenie
I'm 'the guy' in question...


Axe to grind much??



Here's the word, straight from the horses mouth so to speak...

In WA, open carry of a pistol is completely legal, however it's not something that is very common, and not a lot of people are even aware it's legal. As such, sometimes the police are called when they don't need to be.

I have had previous incidents of management of various stores not abiding by their corporate policy (which mostly state that they go by state law, so if it's legal, it's OK). In addition, being that employees aren't always aware of the law, it's important, IMO, to politely and professionally inform them of what state law is, and what corporate policy is, so I don't get an ill informed employee or manager calling the police about something that's completely legal, or kicking me out of the store against policy.

This guy 'bluestrobe' is nothing more than someone with an axe to grind, attempting to see if it's against the law to record in public, in an attempt to get me in trouble. I already told him that there is no expectation of privacy in public, no need to blur out faces, or anything of that nature.

Anyone that watches the video can see I'm very polite, not at all overbearing or demeaning, and just presenting the information in a friendly manner.

It makes FAR more sense to introduce yourself and explain what you're doing/trying to accomplish (awareness of the law, and firearms in general) by being a rational, logical, friendly person, unlike 'bluestrobe' which appears to have a vindictive nature.

The overall goal is to make people realize that normal people carry guns too, not just cops and bad guys. Most people watch news and associate guns with murderers and rapists, this just isn't the case.. More guns are used PROTECTING life every year than there are that take life. The more people they see walking around doing everyday activities, the more they realize that regular people, shopping, walking their dog, coaching their sons baseball game, all carry.

Hell, in WA, something like 1/5 people in the state have concealed carry permits.. Can you imagine lining up 10 people and thinking that TWO are probably going to be legally armed? These same people you go to church with, hang out with at work, or have a beer with after work, are the same people who wish to protect themselves, their family, and our right to bear arms.


We organize picnics, dinners/lunches, clean up forest areas, even adopt highways which we clean regularly. We're not social rejects hiding in underground bunkers with stockpiles of weapons and canned food, we're normal every day people.

www.opencarry.org

-John

Hey I'm all for it and I have no problem with people open carry, my issue is you're an asshole trying to push an agenda.

You video tape and put online a cute little movie that attempts to do nothing but put people in uncomfortable situations and blind side them. Trying to assert your superiority on the subject.....here's a clue moron....not everyone cares about this issue as much as you do....they have other more important things going on in their lives.....like paying the bills, putting food on the table and raising children.


You want a home improvement store that allows open carry without a problem?....get off your ass and open one yourself.