I guess what you get out of it is drinkable, but only for my car...
Anyone have any experience in this?
Anyone have any experience in this?
How legal is it make your own Ethanol?
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Ronstang's half right. It's perfectly legal... IF and ONLY IF you pay the necessary taxes and get approved by the ATF.
Edit: In the US, that is. I don't know where you are.
Edit: In the US, that is. I don't know where you are.
You can't ferment anything stronger than what yeast can naturally do. That's WAY lower than needed for useful ethanol.
In some places, you can't even do that much. It varies state-to-state and sometimes by county.
In some places, you can't even do that much. It varies state-to-state and sometimes by county.
I understand that alcohol & water are such highly miscible liquids that it's really difficult to get the last bit of water outta there.
Maybe you can get 80 - 90 % of the water out, but need special eqpt to remove that last portion of water.
So, hard to make your own fuel in backyard. Ethanol with water remaining in it isn't going to work well.
Actually, if you apply and pay your tax, and you don't have much of a criminal record, they probably won't reject your application. It's just a pretty hefty tax.
Zenmervolt
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Why would you do that? Much better for your vehicle to have a 10-30 percent Tolulene mix. Ethanol is corrosive and will cause problems in your car's fuel system if you go much beyond 10% Ethanol (unless your car is specifically designed for it.
At 30% tolulene, you'll bost the octane rating by as much as 4. (I.e. from 92 to 96). Just don't go much beyond 30% tolulene of the slower burn of tolulene will result in flames escaping the combustion chamber because the mixture will continue burning into the exhaust cycle.
ZV
At 30% tolulene, you'll bost the octane rating by as much as 4. (I.e. from 92 to 96). Just don't go much beyond 30% tolulene of the slower burn of tolulene will result in flames escaping the combustion chamber because the mixture will continue burning into the exhaust cycle.
ZV
Not really. Brewing beer and extracting the alcohol is different from brewing liquor and extracting the alcohol. Read up about "amounts".
I don't need to read up on "amounts." Read my past threads for confirmation.
"Brewing liquor" == fermentation + distillation. Brewing beer == fermentation without distillation. There's no magic here. Fermentable sugars + yeast == ethanol + CO2. Depending on the yeast you might have higher tolerance of alcohol before the fermentation arrests. I was referring to the suggestion that somehow ethanol is "stronger" from different fermentation processes. Where the fermentation stops has a lot of factors: yeast nutrition, temperature, fermentable sugars, type of yeast, etc. etc. We get ethanol the same way whether the resultant fluid contains 7% of 20% ethanol. MrBond was acting as though there's something to do with ethanol "strength" when that's entirely not the issue.
DrPizza
Administrator Elite Member Goat Whisperer
Just out of curiousity, how were you planning on distilling it anyway? I've been out of the chemistry loop for a while, but unless I'm mistaken, without doing this on a large scale with specialized equipment, you're going to use more energy distilling the water out of it (or rather the alcohol out of the water) than you're going to get in terms of energy from the alcohol. IIRC from organic chem, the process of distilling it to get 98% or better really isn't that technically challenging. Amazingly, I still remember paying attention that day - it was taught during a lab period in the afternoon, rather than the 8am lecture which I was half asleep for.
Yes, there is an azeotrope at around 90% (molar), so you literally CANNOT use conventional distillation to get a concentration higher than that.
Considering that toluene is more expensive (usually) than gasoline and is a probable carcinogen I think using it kind of defeats the purpose of making your own ethanol.
Zenmervolt
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At $5/gallon though it's cheaper than any octane booster you can buy in a store.
Can buy it in 5 gallon containers at around $4/gallon I've heard. If the reason for making one's own ethanol is to have high-octane fuel around, then Tolulene is still better.
As far as it being a carcinogen, as long as you don't have it open in an enclosed area or bathe in it, you should be fine. Hell, half the fluids in a modern vehicle are probably carcinogens.
ZV
I seriously doubt he was saying there's such a thing as "stronger" ethanol. When you talk about an alcoholic drink being "strong" you're usually referring to it's alcohol content.
Originally posted by: Zenmervolt
At $5/gallon though it's cheaper than any octane booster you can buy in a store.
If the reason for making one's own ethanol is to have high-octane fuel around, then Tolulene is still better.
As far as it being a carcinogen, as long as you don't have it open in an enclosed area or bathe in it, you should be fine. Hell, half the fluids in a modern vehicle are probably carcinogens.
ZV
I don't think the gist of this thread is ethanol as an octane booster but rather as a cheap fuel to be made at home. Octane boosters are outdated anyway. If you have a car that requires one then it is a dinosaur or tuned incorrectly. Even my Shelby runs on pump gas with nearly 11:1 compression.
Zenmervolt
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This is true. I guess my main point is that outside of as a means of boosting octane I really don't see much use for Ethanol.Originally posted by: Ronstang
I don't think the gist of this thread is ethanol as an octane booster but rather as a cheap fuel to be made at home. Octane boosters are outdated anyway. If you have a car that requires one then it is a dinosaur or tuned incorrectly. Even my Shelby runs on pump gas with nearly 11:1 compression.Originally posted by: Zenmervolt
At $5/gallon though it's cheaper than any octane booster you can buy in a store.
If the reason for making one's own ethanol is to have high-octane fuel around, then Tolulene is still better.
As far as it being a carcinogen, as long as you don't have it open in an enclosed area or bathe in it, you should be fine. Hell, half the fluids in a modern vehicle are probably carcinogens.
ZV
Though with my 944 Turbo the difference between 92 and 96 octane can be a few extra PSI of boost. Can make a good bit of difference on a track.
Tune it up for track and back down for the street. ZV
Heh on a related note, a friend of mine threw a party this weekend and when I showed up with the kegs he says that he's got something that'll really get the party started. He pulled out one of those chemistry jugs full of ethanol - 95% You know, the ones that say in big bold letters "NOT FOR HUMAN CONSUMPTION." Apparently a friend of his works in one of the labs on campus and grabbed it for him. He was planning on putting it in the hunch punch. Great.
Who fscking cares. It's not like you're going to get caught unless you've got a still the size of a warehouse.
If you're really that concerned, apply for the proper permits.
If you're really that concerned, apply for the proper permits.
You mean the kind full of denaturants? BRILLIANT!!!
LOL, I guess he didn't tell the "friend who works in the lab" what he was going to do with it.
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