How is Target any less evil than Walmart?

[swbsam]

Are wages at Target that much higher than Walmart? I always assumed both paid minimum wage, or close to it.

 

[n yusef]

JeffreyLebowski's solution to employment discrimination:

Originally posted by: JeffreyLebowski
Is discriminatory in its employee advancement practices (e.g. glass ceiling for women)Work smarter

 

[ElFenix]

anyway, walmart is good because every time i go there i feel like going to the gym and working out so as not to end up like half of wally world's customers

 

[MrChad]

Originally posted by: swbsam
Are wages at Target that much higher than Walmart? I always assumed both paid minimum wage, or close to it.

No, and they have a similar history of trying to keep unions away from their workforce. Like I said, Wal-Mart gets all the attention because they are the number 1 retailer. Target flies under the radar.

The same is true of other industries. You don't see documentaries made about how Burger King is making our country fat, do you?

 

[swbsam]

Originally posted by: MrChad

Originally posted by: swbsam
Are wages at Target that much higher than Walmart? I always assumed both paid minimum wage, or close to it.

No, and they have a similar history of trying to keep unions away from their workforce. Like I said, Wal-Mart gets all the attention because they are the number 1 retailer. Target flies under the radar.

The same is true of other industries. You don't see documentaries made about how Burger King is making our country fat, do you?

OK, so people who "boycott" walmart yet shop at target are basically well-meaning but ignorant fools then, right?

 

[nakedfrog]

Originally posted by: mugs

Originally posted by: AyashiKaibutsu

Originally posted by: nakedfrog
Target shoppers look down on Wal-mart shoppers, Wal-mart shoppers look down on K-Mart shoppers, K-mart shoppers look down on... I dunno, homeless people?

Wait there are K-Mart shoppers?

Man, I go to K-mart occasionally, and that place is depressing. The parking lot is so empty. I don't know how they even stay in business. I have nothing against K-mart, but it's really out of my way so I only shop there when I need Craftsman stuff (since there aren't any Sears stores near me)

I actually buy my socks at K-Mart, since I can't find this kind anywhere else, and I'd have to pay shipping online. So I'm there about once a year.

 

[0roo0roo]

Originally posted by: swbsam
Many people out there, especially here in hippy NYC, seem to consider Walmart "evil" and refuse to shop there, yet have no problem shopping at Target..

What's the logic there? Is there something about Target that I don't know, or are they just another big-box retailer?

generally the same people that buy foreign cars and far trade coffee

 

[DT4K]

Wal-mart can pay their workers whatever the fuck they want to pay them. Nobody is being forced to work there.

But judging by the wal-marts I've been too, whatever they are being paid is way too much. I think it's a job requirement that you must be rude, annoying, and dumb as a rock.

 

[InflatableBuddha]

Originally posted by: n yusef
JeffreyLebowski's solution to employment discrimination:

Originally posted by: JeffreyLebowski
Is discriminatory in its employee advancement practices (e.g. glass ceiling for women)Work smarter

:thumbsup: Good work exposing the bigots/misogynists.

 

[Red Squirrel]

Hating Walmart seems to be the American thing to do. The only thing I do not like about Walmart is that because they sell almost everything they can possibly drive small businesses away. But small businesses that specialize in one thing (ex: computers) will usually give better service anyway.

As for how crappy they pay their employees, well nobody is forcing them to work there. Not EVERY job has to pay super high. If I chose to not get an education, I'd be more then willing to go work at walmart for minimum wage of $7.15 per hour (or whatever it is these days, think it went up)

 

[destrekor]

Originally posted by: InflatableBuddha
Watch Walmart: The High Cost of Low Price for reasons why WalMart is evil.

Cliffs:

WalMart:
Pays lower wages than other big box retailers.
Refuses to allow many employees to attain full-time status.
Cheaps out on heath care and benefits, instead relying on state and federal programs to support its workers
Obtains free grants/incentives from local governments to set up shop, to offset land, zoning and road costs, etc. Local businesses do not get preferential treatment.
Drives out local businesses, causing unemployment.
Has set up in towns and then left shortly after before repaying loans, etc.
Disallows unions.
Is discriminatory in its employee advancement practices (e.g. glass ceiling for women)
Imposes censorship on media products (music, movies, print) it sells.

Essentially, Wal-Mart is heavily subsidized by local, state and federal governments, which is one of the reasons it can offer such low prices.

These concerns are in addition to the common complaints leveled at big-box stores - environmental concerns, traffic and vehicle use, supporting abusive suppliers in developing countries (e.g. China).

I don't know if Target is involved in any of the specific practices I mentioned, but I can tell you that, for example, Costco is a big-box retailer which is not guilty of those Wal-Mart specific practices - only the basic problems with big box retailers.

walmart is my number one enemy. they directly support the weakening of pure capitalism (not that we've really ever had that) by being the number one corporation (not bad in of itself - capitalism tends to result in market leaders that last a long time, until someone finally beats them) that seeks to provide such terrible public sector support. Like you stated, Walmart, and they aren't the only corporation mind you, basically requires government social programs. I despise this, not only due to political+economic reasons, but for pure economic reasons in general. I despise social programs when they are as large as they are. They need to be smaller, and more emergency use - the complete opposite of what they are today.

 

[zinfamous]

Originally posted by: destrekor


walmart is my number one enemy. they directly support the weakening of pure capitalism (not that we've really ever had that) by being the number one corporation (not bad in of itself - capitalism tends to result in market leaders that last a long time, until someone finally beats them) that seeks to provide such terrible public sector support. Like you stated, Walmart, and they aren't the only corporation mind you, basically requires government social programs. I despise this, not only due to political+economic reasons, but for pure economic reasons in general. I despise social programs when they are as large as they are. They need to be smaller, and more emergency use - the complete opposite of what they are today.

well, that's a new angle....

 

[InflatableBuddha]

Originally posted by: JeffreyLebowski

Originally posted by: InflatableBuddha
Watch Walmart: The High Cost of Low Price for reasons why WalMart is evil.

Cliffs:

WalMart:
Pays lower wages than other big box retailers.No one is forcing the people to work there.

Tell that to students, those with only a high school education, or people who simply can't find a better job (bad economy anyone?). If Wal-Mart has driven out other retailers in multiple industries, you may have few choices.

For many people, there is a huge difference between $6-7/hour at WalMart and $9-$10/hour at other big box stores, grocery chains, etc.

Refuses to allow many employees to attain full-time status.See above

WalMart cheats its employees out of overtime pay and opportunities to work overtime. Employees earn less than they could and the can't qualify for certain benefits reserved for full-time employees.

Cheaps out on heath care and benefits, instead relying on state and federal programs to support its workerssee above again

No, you see above.

Obtains free grants/incentives from local governments to set up shop, to offset land, zoning and road costs, etc. Local businesses do not get preferential treatment.Walmart pays a lot of taxes to the local governments

How is it fair practice to pay WalMart millions of dollars to establish stores in a town? This has happened. Local businesses do not receive this treatment. This is irrespective of taxes that all business pay.

Drives out local businesses, causing unemployment.And a Target doesn't?

Target probably does too, but I haven't read or seen anything to corroborate this point, so I didn't claim it. I'm not familiar with Target as there aren't any where I live. You've heard of "block-busting"? Starbucks does this too.

Has set up in towns and then left shortly after before repaying loans, etc.I doubt they aren't repaying loans, if their is a clause to not repay it then that's the lenders fault
Disallows unions.Some states disallow unions

I misspoke about loans. However, there are cases where WalMart received money to set up in towns and agreed to stay for a certain period of time. However, they closed the store earlier than agreed and opened a new one just outside the town's limits.

As a result, the millions of dollars the town spent on WalMart (in the hopes of creating employment, etc.) was unavailable to fund schools or emergency services. Many of these towns were on tight budgets to begin with, so their town services have suffered.

WalMart may be within its legal rights to do this, but it's definitely an unethical practice.

With certain exceptions, I feel that unions do a good job of protecting workers' rights and maintaining good wages. A WalMart store in Quebec closed down a few years ago simply because they refused to allow unionized workers. Good riddance to WalMart I say.

Is discriminatory in its employee advancement practices (e.g. glass ceiling for women)Work smarter

Stop being a bigot and misogynist. It is well-documented that women and minorities have had difficulty attaining higher positions such as management, within WalMart. It is not right.

Imposes censorship on media products (music, movies, print) it sells.Target just won't allow some products in it's stores. You can't get any hunting equipment or hunting or gun mags.

Total red herring. I can't buy guns or hunting equipment at Canadian Tire either, because they choose not to sell them. However, I can go to Best Buy and purchase CDs and DVDs which are not censored.

Essentially, Wal-Mart is heavily subsidized by local, state and federal governments, which is one of the reasons it can offer such low prices.

These concerns are in addition to the common complaints leveled at big-box stores - environmental concerns, traffic and vehicle use, supporting abusive suppliers in developing countries (e.g. China).

I don't know if Target is involved in any of the specific practices I mentioned, but I can tell you that, for example, Costco is a big-box retailer which is not guilty of those Wal-Mart specific practices - only the basic problems with big box retailers.

See in italics above.

 

[InflatableBuddha]

Originally posted by: destrekor

Originally posted by: InflatableBuddha
Watch Walmart: The High Cost of Low Price for reasons why WalMart is evil.

Cliffs:

WalMart:
Pays lower wages than other big box retailers.
Refuses to allow many employees to attain full-time status.
Cheaps out on heath care and benefits, instead relying on state and federal programs to support its workers
Obtains free grants/incentives from local governments to set up shop, to offset land, zoning and road costs, etc. Local businesses do not get preferential treatment.
Drives out local businesses, causing unemployment.
Has set up in towns and then left shortly after before repaying loans, etc.
Disallows unions.
Is discriminatory in its employee advancement practices (e.g. glass ceiling for women)
Imposes censorship on media products (music, movies, print) it sells.

Essentially, Wal-Mart is heavily subsidized by local, state and federal governments, which is one of the reasons it can offer such low prices.

These concerns are in addition to the common complaints leveled at big-box stores - environmental concerns, traffic and vehicle use, supporting abusive suppliers in developing countries (e.g. China).

I don't know if Target is involved in any of the specific practices I mentioned, but I can tell you that, for example, Costco is a big-box retailer which is not guilty of those Wal-Mart specific practices - only the basic problems with big box retailers.

walmart is my number one enemy. they directly support the weakening of pure capitalism (not that we've really ever had that) by being the number one corporation (not bad in of itself - capitalism tends to result in market leaders that last a long time, until someone finally beats them) that seeks to provide such terrible public sector support. Like you stated, Walmart, and they aren't the only corporation mind you, basically requires government social programs. I despise this, not only due to political+economic reasons, but for pure economic reasons in general. I despise social programs when they are as large as they are. They need to be smaller, and more emergency use - the complete opposite of what they are today.

Agreed. While we need some social programs when people are in genuine need, there is no excuse for WalMart to be mooching off the government. They rake in ridiculous profits; the least they can do is pay their workers a living wage and offer decent health care and pension benefits.

 

[Fayd]

Originally posted by: InflatableBuddha

Originally posted by: MrChad

Originally posted by: InflatableBuddha
Watch Walmart: The High Cost of Low Price for reasons why WalMart is evil.

Cliffs:

WalMart:
Pays lower wages than other big box retailers.
Refuses to allow many employees to attain full-time status.
Cheaps out on heath care and benefits, instead relying on state and federal programs to support its workers
Obtains free grants/incentives from local governments to set up shop, to offset land, zoning and road costs, etc. Local businesses do not get preferential treatment.
Drives out local businesses, causing unemployment.
Has set up in towns and then left shortly after before repaying loans, etc.
Disallows unions.
Is discriminatory in its employee advancement practices (e.g. glass ceiling for women)
Imposes censorship on media products (music, movies, print) it sells.

Essentially, Wal-Mart is heavily subsidized by local, state and federal governments, which is one of the reasons it can offer such low prices.

These concerns are in addition to the common complaints leveled at big-box stores - environmental concerns, traffic and vehicle use, supporting abusive suppliers in developing countries (e.g. China).

I don't know if Target is involved in any of the specific practices I mentioned, but I can tell you that, for example, Costco is a big-box retailer which is not guilty of those Wal-Mart specific practices - only the basic problems with big box retailers.

You forgot "creates thousands of jobs in towns all over the country" and "lowers the cost of living for millions of consumers by offering lower prices on everyday goods".

You forgot that most of those are "$6/hour shit jobs that people can't afford to live and support a family on" and "lowers the cost of goods by shifting undue health care and benefit burdens to state and federal governments".

Guess who pays for the increased strain on those health and benefit programs - you, the taxpayer!

you seem to be under the impression that the existence of a $6/hr job lowers the wages of other jobs around there, or something to that effect.

job pay is BIDDING FOR WORKERS. if they manage to get workers for $6/hr, then more power to them. it pulls the low cost workers out of the worker pool, and in effect drives up the potential wages of all other stores around them.

you dont seem to understand that a worker pool is a market. so what if walmart is a low bidder? if they make their bid, then it means there are people willing to fill those jobs. "oh noes" if people cant live off their job there. then i guess they should IMPROVE THEMSELVES and make themselves more marketable and look elsewhere for a job, rather than continuing to work at walmart and whine about their job.

 

[grrl]

Originally posted by: swbsam
Many people out there, especially here in hippy NYC....

I don't know if Target is any less 'evil', but I find it much less depressing than shopping at Walmart.

 

[IHateMyJob2004]

Any large corporation is going to have bad news all over the US in time. Even Wells Fargo which is probably one of the best run companies in the country was dragged through the mud recently.

 

[InflatableBuddha]

Originally posted by: Fayd

job pay is BIDDING FOR WORKERS. if they manage to get workers for $6/hr, then more power to them. it pulls the low cost workers out of the worker pool, and in effect drives up the potential wages of all other stores around them.

you dont seem to understand that a worker pool is a market. so what if walmart is a low bidder? if they make their bid, then it means there are people willing to fill those jobs. "oh noes" if people cant live off their job there. then i guess they should IMPROVE THEMSELVES and make themselves more marketable and look elsewhere for a job, rather than continuing to work at walmart and whine about their job.

I disagree with your corporate apologist stance.

WalMart is a massive monopoly which is unhealthy in a capitalist system. Even many other large corporations cannot compete with its clout. I'll say it again: when WalMart decides to come into a community (often under false pretences), it drives out other sources of employment. There is less choice for workers.

There is no fair wage competition for other businesses because WalMart received an unfair advantage in coming to town (council paid them). WalMart pays less of its startup costs, and because it has such deep pockets, in can unfairly undercut its competitors in a war of attrition, until those competitors simply go bankrupt.

If they are desperate enough, people will take any job (see my earlier post about people going to school, who only finished high school, etc.).

What about people who need to work to pay for school to IMPROVE THEMSELVES, as you suggest. Even with scholarships, it's pretty hard to pay for an education on $6/hour, no? Oh well, too bad. Since WalMart came to town, Joe's Grocer, where you could earn $10/hour, is now out of business.

What about people who lost their businesses or jobs because of WalMart and can't find something similar? Not everyone can just move to another town, and it's sad if they're forced to do so.

By brushing off the importance of these jobs (undervalued as they are), you do these people a disservice. I'm not saying they should be paid as much as brain surgeons, but if you shop at WalMart, they provide a service to you. They stock the shelves, clean the store and help you find items so that you can save money. Stores cannot operate without these workers. And yet, you deride them as the scum of the earth and support a company which refuses to pay them a decent living wage.

Give your head a shake.

 

[AstroManLuca]

I don't shop at Walmart because every Walmart I've ever been to was a shithole.

 

[mugs]

Another thing -
Walmart's attempt to appear compassionate seems to consist of:
1. Hiring disabled people (mentally or physically) and putting them in jobs they aren't really capable of. Added bonus: these people are unqualified for any job, so they don't have to be paid very much. My local Walmart had a mentally retarded person working as a cashier in electronics, and she really struggled to do her job. At another local Walmart I saw a lady passed out in a wheelchair near the door. When I saw her there the next time I went in, I realized she was the greeter. I'm glad that they give disabled people the opportunity to contribute to society, but there are better jobs for them than cashier. Greeter is fine, but if they can't stay awake it probably isn't healthy to be working.
2. Allowing anyone and everyone who asks to set up shop near the entrance and/or exit for fundraisers. No, I don't want to buy overpriced crap so your kid's softball team can have "spring training" in Florida. Sell that crap to friends and relatives. I don't mind if it's a worthy cause or the girl scouts (those cookies are so good), but Walmart doesn't seem to care who has a fundraiser at their store.

Target, on the other hand, doesn't allow anyone to have fundraisers at their store (they may have started allowing the Salvation Army, I don't recall). But they donate a much higher percentage of their profits to charity than any other large company.

 

[Vette73]

Originally posted by: mugs
Another thing -
Walmart's attempt to appear compassionate seems to consist of:
1. Hiring disabled people (mentally or physically) and putting them in jobs they aren't really capable of. Added bonus: these people are unqualified for any job, so they don't have to be paid very much. My local Walmart had a mentally retarded person working as a cashier in electronics, and she really struggled to do her job. At another local Walmart I saw a lady passed out in a wheelchair near the door. When I saw her there the next time I went in, I realized she was the greeter. I'm glad that they give disabled people the opportunity to contribute to society, but there are better jobs for them than cashier. Greeter is fine, but if they can't stay awake it probably isn't healthy to be working.
2. Allowing anyone and everyone who asks to set up shop near the entrance and/or exit for fundraisers. No, I don't want to buy overpriced crap so your kid's softball team can have "spring training" in Florida. Sell that crap to friends and relatives. I don't mind if it's a worthy cause or the girl scouts (those cookies are so good), but Walmart doesn't seem to care who has a fundraiser at their store.

Target, on the other hand, doesn't allow anyone to have fundraisers at their store (they may have started allowing the Salvation Army, I don't recall). But they donate a much higher percentage of their profits to charity than any other large company.

The reason wal-mart uses disabled people is they pay little to sometimes nothing for them. The Gov (State/Local/etc...) has programs setup so wal-mart takes anybody they can get and shoves a shirt on them.

<-- worked at wal-mart many years ago.

 

[QueBert]

Originally posted by: mugs
Another thing -
Walmart's attempt to appear compassionate seems to consist of:
1. Hiring disabled people (mentally or physically) and putting them in jobs they aren't really capable of. Added bonus: these people are unqualified for any job, so they don't have to be paid very much. My local Walmart had a mentally retarded person working as a cashier in electronics, and she really struggled to do her job. At another local Walmart I saw a lady passed out in a wheelchair near the door. When I saw her there the next time I went in, I realized she was the greeter. I'm glad that they give disabled people the opportunity to contribute to society, but there are better jobs for them than cashier. Greeter is fine, but if they can't stay awake it probably isn't healthy to be working.
2. Allowing anyone and everyone who asks to set up shop near the entrance and/or exit for fundraisers. No, I don't want to buy overpriced crap so your kid's softball team can have "spring training" in Florida. Sell that crap to friends and relatives. I don't mind if it's a worthy cause or the girl scouts (those cookies are so good), but Walmart doesn't seem to care who has a fundraiser at their store.

Target, on the other hand, doesn't allow anyone to have fundraisers at their store (they may have started allowing the Salvation Army, I don't recall). But they donate a much higher percentage of their profits to charity than any other large company.

I dunno about #1, I've never seen a mentally challanged person at Walmart, and the people I knew who worked there made shit for money. Walmart can't magically ignore minimum wage laws due to a person being challenged. So if they are hiring them, it's not just to look good. They must really care, as they could easily find a normal person more than willing to do the same job. For the exact same pay. If they're not being compassionate here, then I don't know what compassionate is I guess. While I wouldn't think of Walmart as a compassionate company, if they hire mentally slow people who suck I would say they must be slow themselves. Seems like a horrible business move.

 

[0roo0roo]

http://consumerist.com/5278844...rt-ceos-shop-at-target

 

[Xonoahbin]

It so happens that I work at Wal-Mart right now. It's a summer job so I don't have that great of a perspective, but I have one nonetheless. I'm a cashier by the way. Wal-Mart is paying me $.40 above minimum wage, so you're correct that it's not so phenomenal, but minimum wage is $7.75 here so it's at least good in that respect. In their training videos, they specifically talked about unions. Some of you inferred that Wal-Mart doesn't allow unions, but de facto, that is incorrect. They advise against them because they "don't feel there's a need for them" or whatever, but they're not specifically disallowed. We do hire slightly disabled/elderly people as door greeters, so that's correct. I can't think of anything else, so if there's something you're wondering about, let me know.

 

[pontifex]

i see the same types of people shopping in wal-marts and targets here in central PA. just like with everyone else on this forum, ATOTers believe they are superior than other people.