How is not having health insurance responsible?

[OneOfTheseDays]

I see this argument all the time from conservatives about freedom of choice and that individuals should not be compelled to buy HC if they don't want it.

My question is simple. How is this responsible? No health care is the cheapest form of health care available and so long as that is an option people will continue to not buy any and force good tax payers to foot the bill when they inevitably end up in the emergency room.

You cannot drive a car without insurance. By extension, one should not be able to live without health insurance. The only Republican solution I see to this is to deny all coverage to anyone without health insurance. This means lots of people dying, which we've already decided as a nation is unacceptable.

All roads lead to single payer. It is the ONLY option that makes sense. ACA is a step in this direction and the individual mandate is the only thing we can do to enforce that people get onto some form of health insurance.

 

[Attic]

It's likely not responsible.


Neither is having unprotected sex with a gorgeous girl you just met. Don't want the government outlawing that next do you?

Get it?

 

[OneOfTheseDays]

It's likely not responsible.


Neither is having unprotected sex with a gorgeous girl you just met. Don't want the government outlawing that next do you?

Get it?

With that kind of logic then you admit there is no way to reduce health care costs in this country.

 

[OutHouse]

By extension, one should not be able to live without health insurance.

oh boy here we go.

 

[michal1980]

With that kind of logic then you admit there is no way to reduce health care costs in this country.

And how does everyone getting health care do that?

 

[Matt1970]

Nobody is required to drive a car. It is a privelage and a choice.

What next? Making it a requirement that everyone jog a mile every day? Are you going start telling them what to eat? Ban unsafe sprts?

Tell yourself whatever you need to to make yourself comfortable but the majority of America does not want the ACA no matter what you call it.

 

[the DRIZZLE]

You cannot drive a car without insurance. By extension, one should not be able to live without health insurance.

You are required to buy liability insurance to protect other people from your actions. You don't have buy insurance to protect yourself.

 

[Doppel]

Single payer has ups but it is no panacea. Let us assume it happens.Now instead of waiting 2 weeks for an MRI I wait 6 months, like in Canada because now a ton more people are in the system. Well, I have money, so I find a clinic that is private and it lets me pay. Other people with money do the same. Now we have these clinics and their nurses and doctors working for wealthier people (and maybe these people even buy insurance despite single pay), which means they are not working as part of the public system, which means the public system suffers. He do you deal with this? You outlaw the private clinics. That is precisely what Canada has done. Not directly, but disinentivizing it by not allowing them to charge above normal rates. It is in effect saying yes you are rich but no you cannot use your money to get anything; instead you are forced to be like the rest of us. So then what do you do, you go to another country, just as many wealthy Canadians do for their serious illnesses.

What I am saying is the ultimate end point of single pay in the US would very likely include legal prohibitions on offering health care except as part of that system. It would say you as a private individual cannot have a relationship with dr x outside of the public system.

 

[Chiropteran]

You are required to buy liability insurance to protect other people from your actions. You don't have buy insurance to protect yourself.

The problem is that hospitals are obligated to care for you whether you have insurance or not. This costs money, and if you have no insurance it's just a drain on the system.

You don't need to insure your car against your own stupidity because if you wreck it society isn't forced to pay for it's repair.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

oh boy here we go.

So who gets the contracts for the gas chambers?

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Boehnercare.

 

[glenn1]

I see this argument all the time from conservatives about freedom of choice and that individuals should not be compelled to buy HC if they don't want it.

My question is simple. How is this responsible? No health care is the cheapest form of health care available and so long as that is an option people will continue to not buy any and force good tax payers to foot the bill when they inevitably end up in the emergency room.

You cannot drive a car without insurance. By extension, one should not be able to live without health insurance. The only Republican solution I see to this is to deny all coverage to anyone without health insurance. This means lots of people dying, which we've already decided as a nation is unacceptable.

All roads lead to single payer. It is the ONLY option that makes sense. ACA is a step in this direction and the individual mandate is the only thing we can do to enforce that people get onto some form of health insurance.

Because Obamacare is a one size fits all solution with absolutely no flexibility allowed in accomplishing your desired objective. If your objective is to encourage everyone to have financial arrangements in place to pay for medical expenses (a good idea), then mandating that they purchase very expensive insurance is a poor way of doing that for many if not most.

This has all been explained multiple times before, not that you likely really care.

1. Obamacare mandates insurance policies with minimal coverages that are completely excessive for most, and may be completely inappropriate for the person involved.

2. Health Savings Accounts coupled with a catastrophic health insurance policy is a superior option for many people.

3. Linking health insurance to a person's job by providing tax advantages to employer plans is and always has been monumentally stupid.

4. Comprehensive health "insurance" plans aren't really insurance at all, but rather a prepaid medical payment administrator.

There are plenty more reasons, but those are the primary ones.

 

[nehalem256]

My question is simple. How is this responsible? No health care is the cheapest form of health care available and so long as that is an option people will continue to not buy any and force good tax payers to foot the bill when they inevitably end up in the emergency room.

So you, as a liberal, are saying that taxpayer's being forced to foot the bill for people's irresponsible behavior is somehow a bad thing?

 

[OverVolt]

For the wefare crowd with zero net wealth what do they care? The ER is their doctor. There is no debtors jail or anything. There is always bankruptcy. A student with negative net wealth has what to lose exactly by racking up $100k in medical bills and declaring bankruptcy?

They play this out like its a godsend for people making under $60k/yr, on food stamps, obama phone, etc. but they really have no net wealth at all so they don't really care.

 

[rudder]

With that kind of logic then you admit there is no way to reduce health care costs in this country.

Diabetes and obesity is rampant. Are we to force people to the gym now and make them eat bean sprouts for dinner to save on healthcare costs?

Cut out alcohol? Pizza? Sugar?

There a lot more irresponsible things than a healthy person buying insurance. IMO it is a gamble... but no less irresponsible that a person with insurance who smokes, cooks everything in sugar and lard, and drives around on their scooter without a helmet.

If I were young and healthy and mandated to buy insurance I would be pissed knowing that I would be the demographic that is paying for the unhealthy people.

 

[umbrella39]

Nobody is required to drive a car. It is a privelage and a choice.


Tell yourself whatever you need to to make yourself comfortable but the majority of America does not want the ACA no matter what you call it.

Nobody is required to be rushed to my ER having decided they were far too healthy to bother taking that pesky insurance deduction at work who now needs us to put humpty dumpty back together again (for free except it's really not free to everyone else who gets to pay higher premiums next year thanks buddy).

Tell yourself whatever you need to make yourself comfortable but the majority of America elected Obama and reelected him on ACA no matter what you call it.

 

[OverVolt]

Never-mind the outrageous healthcare costs...

$40 Ace bandages and stuff.

 

[davmat787]

Soon as the ACA has its kinks worked out, then whatever group is in charge can implement the AWA. You know, the Affordable Welfare Act.

I seem to be reading a lot of justification for forcing people to purchase health insurance (such as the cost is just passed on to others anyway) that could be used just the same for welfare insurance.

 

[monovillage]

I see this argument all the time from conservatives about freedom of choice and that individuals should not be compelled to buy HC if they don't want it.

My question is simple. How is this responsible? No health care is the cheapest form of health care available and so long as that is an option people will continue to not buy any and force good tax payers to foot the bill when they inevitably end up in the emergency room.

You cannot drive a car without insurance. By extension, one should not be able to live without health insurance. The only Republican solution I see to this is to deny all coverage to anyone without health insurance. This means lots of people dying, which we've already decided as a nation is unacceptable.

All roads lead to single payer. It is the ONLY option that makes sense. ACA is a step in this direction and the individual mandate is the only thing we can do to enforce that people get onto some form of health insurance.

Admit it, you get a woody when you get to compel/force fellow citizens into doing what you want. Every authoritarian gets that giddy little feeling when they can coerce people into the behaviors they favor.

 

[xj0hnx]

You stupid fucking liberals, two years ago it was all, "OMFG the ebul insurance companies and their profit must die!!!!" Now that your messiah tells you to, it's all "OMFG, why doesn't everyone get insurance!!!" Fucking idiots, it's no wonder no one can take you seriously.

 

[funks]

Neither is having unprotected sex with a gorgeous girl you just met. Don't want the government outlawing that next do you?

Sure isn't the same. The above will literally land one garnished wages for child support for the next 18 years.

When a person who is not insured goes to the hospital and ends up getting care, hospitals should be allowed to garnish their wages to recoup the cost of treatment. And it should be the same as student loans, bankruptcy rules don't apply.

Everyone has the free will not to go to the hospital when the feces hits the fan (eq. Minor heart attack), but pretty sure most will change their mind when that time comes and will prefer getting treated / get their life extended.

 

[MagickMan]

You stupid fucking liberals, two years ago it was all, "OMFG the ebul insurance companies and their profit must die!!!!" Now that your messiah tells you to, it's all "OMFG, why doesn't everyone get insurance!!!" Fucking idiots, it's no wonder no one can take you seriously.

Yep, their tempo changes with the music, and DC loves to make them dance.

 

[Doppel]

You stupid fucking liberals, two years ago it was all, "OMFG the ebul insurance companies and their profit must die!!!!" Now that your messiah tells you to, it's all "OMFG, why doesn't everyone get insurance!!!" Fucking idiots, it's no wonder no one can take you seriously.

You have a old point. Insurance can't go away as long as lobbyists own Washington.

 

[Matt1970]

Nobody is required to be rushed to my ER having decided they were far too healthy to bother taking that pesky insurance deduction at work who now needs us to put humpty dumpty back together again (for free except it's really not free to everyone else who gets to pay higher premiums next year thanks buddy).

Tell yourself whatever you need to make yourself comfortable but the majority of America elected Obama and reelected him on ACA no matter what you call it.

Let me leave this for you.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/obama_and_democrats_health_care_plan-1130.html

 

[AViking]

Single payer has ups but it is no panacea. Let us assume it happens.Now instead of waiting 2 weeks for an MRI I wait 6 months, like in Canada because now a ton more people are in the system. Well, I have money, so I find a clinic that is private and it lets me pay. Other people with money do the same. Now we have these clinics and their nurses and doctors working for wealthier people (and maybe these people even buy insurance despite single pay), which means they are not working as part of the public system, which means the public system suffers. He do you deal with this? You outlaw the private clinics. That is precisely what Canada has done. Not directly, but disinentivizing it by not allowing them to charge above normal rates. It is in effect saying yes you are rich but no you cannot use your money to get anything; instead you are forced to be like the rest of us. So then what do you do, you go to another country, just as many wealthy Canadians do for their serious illnesses.

What I am saying is the ultimate end point of single pay in the US would very likely include legal prohibitions on offering health care except as part of that system. It would say you as a private individual cannot have a relationship with dr x outside of the public system.

Link to 6 month waiting times to get an MRI? Link to them leaving the country to get medical treatment for serious illnesses? In Sweden I can see the doctor the same day or at worst the next day. If I need an MRI I get a referral for it and go get it the same day. I have to wait between an hour or two in the office for my turn. For serious illnesses the emergency rooms here run like clockwork.

How?

All those people getting MRI's who don't need them? That doesn't happen here. Emergency rooms are not clogged with people who don't have health insurance.

Want to see a private doctor? No problem. You pay a bit more and go do it.