Rumpltzer
Diamond Member
- Jun 7, 2003
- 4,815
- 33
- 91
Taking a long time to don a bunny suit just means that you don't go in the fab enough.
The fab is temperature and humidity controlled, so it shouldn't be physically uncomfortable... unless you're in school and they have you wearing Tyvek disposables (that don't breath at all).
Some fabs drone from the air handlers; depends on the fab. Living in yellow light bothered me for a couple of summers, but I don't notice it anymore.
I don't mind the fab. I like hands-on, and I find this work to be very intuitive. I know very good process engineers who hated being in the fab and moved on to be managerial-types so they could wear makeup and heels and wear nice clothes, so I certainly understand what people are saying. I show up in jeans and a button-up if they're lucky; I'll wear a t-shirt if I know I'll be in the lab most of the day.
It's looking like the OP isn't in Murica. Perhaps he should state where he is.
Again, I strongly suggest trying an internship if you're still in school. Intel's program is large and organized and pays well, and you do get a decent sense of what it's like to work at Intel. The stuff I read on the glassdoor Web site suggests that there's a large internship program at TSMC, but it might be limited to the Taiwanese students (TSMC is an English-speaking fab).
The fab is temperature and humidity controlled, so it shouldn't be physically uncomfortable... unless you're in school and they have you wearing Tyvek disposables (that don't breath at all).
Some fabs drone from the air handlers; depends on the fab. Living in yellow light bothered me for a couple of summers, but I don't notice it anymore.
I don't mind the fab. I like hands-on, and I find this work to be very intuitive. I know very good process engineers who hated being in the fab and moved on to be managerial-types so they could wear makeup and heels and wear nice clothes, so I certainly understand what people are saying. I show up in jeans and a button-up if they're lucky; I'll wear a t-shirt if I know I'll be in the lab most of the day.
It's looking like the OP isn't in Murica. Perhaps he should state where he is.
Again, I strongly suggest trying an internship if you're still in school. Intel's program is large and organized and pays well, and you do get a decent sense of what it's like to work at Intel. The stuff I read on the glassdoor Web site suggests that there's a large internship program at TSMC, but it might be limited to the Taiwanese students (TSMC is an English-speaking fab).
I'm not yet in school for this degree yet, I live in EU(Slovakia) and the nearest fab is approx 500 miles away which belongs to Infineon Technologies, yet Intel and GloFo(ex AMD) fabs are here too. The nearest Intel fab is like 1550 miles.
There was a fab in my state but it was abandoned long ago.
Oh and, is the yellow light particularly annoying or puts some additional wear on the eyes?
There was a fab in my state but it was abandoned long ago.
Oh and, is the yellow light particularly annoying or puts some additional wear on the eyes?
shortylickens
No Lifer
- Jul 15, 2003
- 80,287
- 17,081
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Yes, I do wear dioptric glasses, I can see quite well without them too but I just use them for better comfort etc. Are they not allowed in fabs?
I've worked at perhaps 25 different FABs since 1982 and just completed a 2 year stint in Albany NY working at GF and NanoFAB -- I'm currently working at Intel in Chandler AZ.
The pay scale, as has been mentioned, has been flat since the tech bubble burst but is still higher than most industries. Most jobs require either a 2 year science related degree or the experience to equal that but engineering level jobs will not surprisingly require 4 year+ science degrees.
The work and work environment isn't for everyone and there is a good deal of turnover for entry level work. In the FAB itself there is a hierarchy that, beginning at the bottom, is:
1. Operators (they run the equipment)
2. Techs (install and maintain the equipment)
3. Engineers (write recipes and modify the process to improve yield)
There are other jobs for even higher level types but they don't tend to work in the FAB all that much preferring to work in little labs that tend to be less stringent as far as protocol is concerned.
The major negatives are:
1. 12 hour shifts are the norm and many can't make it past about 8 hours.
2. Holidays ... if your scheduled workday falls on a holiday it becomes a regular workday and you have to work -- including Christmas etc.
3. Bunny suits ... if you do any physical or even mental work you will sweat your ass off.
4. Pressure ... with new FABs costing $4B+ it's imperative that all tools be operating at near 100% utilization and there's a lot of pressure to make that happen. There are some process tools, like the new immersion litho tools that cost upwards of $80M each and a big FAB will have dozens of them -- you can bet that anytime one of them goes down everyone up the chain of command will know within 15 minutes.
The major positives:
1. 12 hour shifts ... typically you work a 2 week cycle and you wind up getting lots of weekdays off and that's great for getting things done and being places that would be crowded on the weekends. The average workweek is 42 hours long so there's more pay even if you don't get time-and-a-half for it. You drive to work fewer times/week and often when traffic is less.
2. Pay ... although the pay scale has been stagnant for a dozen years it's still better than most industries.
Brian
The pay scale, as has been mentioned, has been flat since the tech bubble burst but is still higher than most industries. Most jobs require either a 2 year science related degree or the experience to equal that but engineering level jobs will not surprisingly require 4 year+ science degrees.
The work and work environment isn't for everyone and there is a good deal of turnover for entry level work. In the FAB itself there is a hierarchy that, beginning at the bottom, is:
1. Operators (they run the equipment)
2. Techs (install and maintain the equipment)
3. Engineers (write recipes and modify the process to improve yield)
There are other jobs for even higher level types but they don't tend to work in the FAB all that much preferring to work in little labs that tend to be less stringent as far as protocol is concerned.
The major negatives are:
1. 12 hour shifts are the norm and many can't make it past about 8 hours.
2. Holidays ... if your scheduled workday falls on a holiday it becomes a regular workday and you have to work -- including Christmas etc.
3. Bunny suits ... if you do any physical or even mental work you will sweat your ass off.
4. Pressure ... with new FABs costing $4B+ it's imperative that all tools be operating at near 100% utilization and there's a lot of pressure to make that happen. There are some process tools, like the new immersion litho tools that cost upwards of $80M each and a big FAB will have dozens of them -- you can bet that anytime one of them goes down everyone up the chain of command will know within 15 minutes.
The major positives:
1. 12 hour shifts ... typically you work a 2 week cycle and you wind up getting lots of weekdays off and that's great for getting things done and being places that would be crowded on the weekends. The average workweek is 42 hours long so there's more pay even if you don't get time-and-a-half for it. You drive to work fewer times/week and often when traffic is less.
2. Pay ... although the pay scale has been stagnant for a dozen years it's still better than most industries.
Brian
shortylickens
No Lifer
- Jul 15, 2003
- 80,287
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- 136
No they are.
I would recommend you go to zenni optical and get some blue tinted glasses.
WhoBeDaPlaya
Diamond Member
- Sep 15, 2000
- 7,414
- 402
- 126
Exactly. I'm not saying it's bad by any stretch (pulled north of $100K as a "greenhorn" PhD), but just stagnant.
Oh, and no EDA vendors renting out a carrier and stocking it with music, booze and strippers (Magma IIRC)
I agree with most of your points, except for a couple...
I don't see the 12 hour shift as a negative... I absolutely LOVE the 3on/3off/4on/4off schedule. I hope I never have to work a five day work week again, the rest of my life.
Nor do I see the pressure as a negative. It opens up the opportunity to be a hero, when you can crush the expected down time prediction. As a matter of fact, when the shit hits the fan, is my favorite part of my job. I truly enjoy the chaos, I love when the focus is on our module. At the end of the shift, I feel like I made a difference. But I understand that's probably just me. I just don't like the boring days, when I feel like I didn't make much of an impact.
shortylickens
No Lifer
- Jul 15, 2003
- 80,287
- 17,081
- 136
12 hours is fine IF its a day shift. A 12 hour night shift is horrid. Especially cuz on your off days your body is still in night cycle.
I got somewhat lucky. Eugene has many 24 hour restaurants and grocery stores. But forget seeing movies during the day, your body wont work right that night when you go on shift.
I got somewhat lucky. Eugene has many 24 hour restaurants and grocery stores. But forget seeing movies during the day, your body wont work right that night when you go on shift.
I worked at TSMC's RD Integration for 7 years so I can speak a little bit about my experience there. There is no specific degree that you would need to work at TSMC except maybe if you're an IC designer. The Majority of engineers there have degrees ranging from Chemical / Materials / Mechanical / ECE, nuclear etc. I think engineering degree in general would suffice since the work is not terribly complicated. I mean most people don't graduate college with full working knowledge of 20nm HKMG process anyways so you just have to pick up the knowledge as you go.
be wary of semiconductor companies that only want to bring you in as a "contractor", the odds that you will be converted to a permanent employee are slim to none.
this includes Intel!
contractor employees get no benefits and in some plants aren't allowed to work more than 18 months before they have to leave...no matter how well they performed the work.
this includes Intel!
contractor employees get no benefits and in some plants aren't allowed to work more than 18 months before they have to leave...no matter how well they performed the work.
Last edited:
Rumpltzer
Diamond Member
- Jun 7, 2003
- 4,815
- 33
- 91
IEEE Electron Device Society holds Webinars (some good, some great, and some not good; depends a lot on the speaker) on various topics. The next topic is entitled Working Successfully in the Semiconductor Industry.
It's a strange topic given the limited invitees (IEEE EDS members) and the narrow cross-section that would be interested and not already in the semiconductor industry, but whatever. Thought I'd throw it out there in case anyone is interested... either need to be part of IEEE EDS or know someone who is, and then maybe share a conference room or something.
Might be good for ATOT members who are in school or something.
Thursday, October 17, 2013
11:00 AM - 12:00 PM EDT
Register: http://eds.ieee.org/webinars.html
Author Biography: http://eds.ieee.org/component/content/article/6-education-content/510-douglas-p-verret.html
Abstract: For those not fortunate enough to have worked as an intern, the experience of working in the semiconductor industry can be quite different than expectations. In general you have been taught many valuables things by your professors, but there are many more things that you were not told. Some of you will experience culture shock. In this webinar you will not hear about the results of a rigorous sociological or anthropological study on the semiconductor industry workplace, but rather a personal perspective of someone who has worked in the industry for three and a half decades. You will hear about the characteristics of the industry as a whole and how it affects the work life of a typical engineer. You will learn about common misconceptions and pitfalls of novice engineers as well as traits and characteristics you will need to flourish in this unique environment. For experienced engineers you will hear about things that you have probably experienced but may not have reflected upon nor internalized.
Attendance will be limited to members only, offered on a first come, first served basis.
It's a strange topic given the limited invitees (IEEE EDS members) and the narrow cross-section that would be interested and not already in the semiconductor industry, but whatever. Thought I'd throw it out there in case anyone is interested... either need to be part of IEEE EDS or know someone who is, and then maybe share a conference room or something.
Might be good for ATOT members who are in school or something.
Thursday, October 17, 2013
11:00 AM - 12:00 PM EDT
Register: http://eds.ieee.org/webinars.html
Author Biography: http://eds.ieee.org/component/content/article/6-education-content/510-douglas-p-verret.html
Abstract: For those not fortunate enough to have worked as an intern, the experience of working in the semiconductor industry can be quite different than expectations. In general you have been taught many valuables things by your professors, but there are many more things that you were not told. Some of you will experience culture shock. In this webinar you will not hear about the results of a rigorous sociological or anthropological study on the semiconductor industry workplace, but rather a personal perspective of someone who has worked in the industry for three and a half decades. You will hear about the characteristics of the industry as a whole and how it affects the work life of a typical engineer. You will learn about common misconceptions and pitfalls of novice engineers as well as traits and characteristics you will need to flourish in this unique environment. For experienced engineers you will hear about things that you have probably experienced but may not have reflected upon nor internalized.
Attendance will be limited to members only, offered on a first come, first served basis.
Oh thanks for additional replies, the link you posted, is it not possible to get in without being invited to create account or attend webinar respectively, would really like to see it.
Printer Bandit
Lifer
- Mar 16, 2005
- 13,856
- 109
- 106
I used to wear a bunny suit for a fab-related class the first time I was in grad school.
Although it was exciting, I agree with the previous posts about the de-gowning and re-gowning tiring, when it comes to bathroom needs
Although it was exciting, I agree with the previous posts about the de-gowning and re-gowning tiring, when it comes to bathroom needs
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