How is it like to work in semiconductor foundry

[Sheep221]

Hello,

As this is highly specialized forum, there are for sure some people here who work or have worked in semiconductor fab. I would like to do this kinda job once and would be nice to know what education you need for it, I guess probably masters in electrical engineering or computing is needed, what responsibilities you have and what is your personal view of doing it and how you enjoy it.
How are the salaries and possible dangers/risk in this work...etc

You are not required to share anything that is confidential or should not be told I just want to hear opinions and some basic info about it, and how to get into something like this, what education and experience I need and so on.

thnx

 

[Printer Bandit]

i wonder what they wear on casual fridays?

 

[shortylickens]

At worked at Hynix for two years. It sucked for many reasons. They always want more and more productivity. They'll always be giving you shit about something (productivity, particles in the fab, workflow, information flow, something).

Night shift sucks. I know a lot of people think they are nocturnal but trust me, you will never know for sure until you work from 7pm to 7am.
What most folks discover is that very few of us are truly nocturnal. Most of us were daytime people struggling to keep awake. Its hard on the body, its devastating on the mind. I would never recommend it to anyone. And the 10 percent bonus isnt worth it. I recommend days. Then it just seems like a really long work shift, as opposed to hell in a hand basket.

 

[CountZero]

i wonder what they wear on casual fridays?

When I went back to school to study VLSI my wife thought that when I said I'd be working on and designing chips that I'd be sitting in a lab in a bunny suit actually working on chips. She was sorely disappointed to find out that I just push squares around on a screen.

I have nothing much to add about working at a fab except that when I interned at IBM they mentioned the fab runs 24/7 and if something goes wrong you will be called in. This might only apply to the process side engineers. Within a foundry I'd imagine there are lots of other jobs that don't involve being tied to a machine assuming you are talking about someone like TSMC.

 

[bryanl]

What happened to IBM's shirtsleeves environment foundry where only the wafers stayed in clean chambers and the people worked in ordinary rooms?

 

[tboo]

At worked at Hynix for two years. It sucked for many reasons. They always want more and more productivity. They'll always be giving you shit about something (productivity, particles in the fab, workflow, information flow, something).

Night shift sucks. I know a lot of people think they are nocturnal but trust me, you will never know for sure until you work from 7pm to 7am.
What most folks discover is that very few of us are truly nocturnal. Most of us were daytime people struggling to keep awake. Its hard on the body, its devastating on the mind. I would never recommend it to anyone. And the 10 percent bonus isnt worth it. I recommend days. Then it just seems like a really long work shift, as opposed to hell in a hand basket.

This is so true, Working nights sucks big time, I cant tell you how shitty I felt when I worked the night shift. Ill never do it again.

 

[xSauronx]

Night shift sucks. I know a lot of people think they are nocturnal but trust me, you will never know for sure until you work from 7pm to 7am.

i turned down a night shift job years ago, told the hr person id never make it past 1 am.

a friend works at a hospital chem lab, 2nd shift. hes tired of the job but loves the hours. he works like 2-10 or something and then...goes to the pub after work, has a round or two, crashes and sleeps til 11 or 12. rinse, repeat.

 

[silverpig]

I never worked in a commercial fab, but I did do semiconductor research and processed all my own stuff. Working in a clean room is kind of cool for a while, then it just gets annoying. It's a regular job but you have to wear all this funky stuff every day.

 

[shortylickens]

What happened to IBM's shirtsleeves environment foundry where only the wafers stayed in clean chambers and the people worked in ordinary rooms?

Lots of companies tried that. It requires loads of robots and frankly thats harder than using loads of humans.

 

[shortylickens]

I never worked in a commercial fab, but I did do semiconductor research and processed all my own stuff. Working in a clean room is kind of cool for a while, then it just gets annoying. It's a regular job but you have to wear all this funky stuff every day.

Yup. Every time you need a pee, theres a 12 minute evolution of degowning and regowning. Its so damn annoying.

 

[Phoenix86]

i wonder what they wear on casual fridays?

 

[WhoBeDaPlaya]

Salaries have been stagnant since the "party years" (say mid-90s to early-00s).

 

[Wingznut]

I am an Engineering Technician at Intel, and spend the majority of my work life in the fab... And I absolutely love it.
Don't get me wrong, sometimes it gets old being in a "bunny suit", and certainly when I'm in full acid gear. But I love the challenges and I love the pressure that we're often under.

My job is spent either performing repairs/maintenance on the semiconductor manufacturing equipment, or running experiments to improve the process.

As for a degree, a two-year degree can get you a technician role in the semiconductor field. You'll need at least a Masters for an Engineering position, or a PhD in the development side of things.

In regards to safety, there are definitely dangers. Lots of high voltage, fast moving robots, and nasty chemicals. But if the company if of any worth, they have plenty of procedures in place where pretty much every issue is mitigated. I can't think of a single safety incident that I've heard of, which wasn't a result of following protocol (usually taking a short cut.)

Salary... I'm very very happy with what I make. Than add in all of the benefits, bonuses, and perks. WBDP says that salaries are stagnant, but I suppose that's relative. If you work for a company that determines raises based on meritocracy, and you work hard, you'll easily get more than average pay raises.

 

[Rumpltzer]

I paid my way through undergrad (and a couple of summers of grad school) working at fabs. AT&T, Lucent, Rotomola, and Intel. I hand made my first transistor during my first year in grad school.

So, first time in a fab was like summer 1993. First transistor from my hands was like winter 1996. I was in the fab for about three hours today, but that's because I had a lot of meetings.


So, what I learned from my undergrad intern experiences was (1) once you get one internship, it's easy to get another, and (2) I didn't want to be a process engineer. I'm not saying that it's bad to be a process engineer, but I wanted more.

Process engineering (as I experienced it) is very much like being a fireman. Fire erupts, go to put out fire, wait for next fire. Not what I wanted. Stayed in grad school, and now I do development work, next generation process development, and next generation devices. I'm very good at it, and I love it. But I don't work at a foundry; I work at a place where we do very advanced stuff for a very specific customer with deep pockets and extravagant needs.


So, my biggest advice if you're interested in this stuff is to be a EE or a MATSe or a ChemE, and if you're a EE, don't skip out on the chemistry and materials courses. Pay attention to your device physics courses.

My other advice is to pick up an internship at a fab. Really. Do it.

You don't need grad school, but being in grad school at a place that does semiconductor work will give you experience that undergrad might not give you. My undergrad school had fab classes. I took them as an undergrad, and I taught them as a grad student. I'm not saying that grad school won't help, but you don't have to have it to work at a foundry; they have all levels.


If you're on Twitter, then keep up with Global Foundries. They're building something huge in upstate New York, and they're hiring an assload of people. They post job openings on their Twitter, and there are many, many postings on their Web site. They need people. Pretty much all the places need GOOD people. It's a good industry.


As an intern, we were required to work in the lab as a technician for a work cycle. Unlike the others, I thought that the night was a lot better than the day. During the night, the engineers cleared out, and the environment was more relaxed. The night version went a lot better/faster for me than the day version.

Also, if you do end up working in a fab, don't shit on the techs. They're doing the work; you need them. Go ahead an treat the process engineers like crap if you want; as long as you're good enough not to need them, but don't mess with the techs...

 

[Red Squirrel]

At worked at Hynix for two years. It sucked for many reasons. They always want more and more productivity. They'll always be giving you shit about something (productivity, particles in the fab, workflow, information flow, something).

Night shift sucks. I know a lot of people think they are nocturnal but trust me, you will never know for sure until you work from 7pm to 7am.
What most folks discover is that very few of us are truly nocturnal. Most of us were daytime people struggling to keep awake. Its hard on the body, its devastating on the mind. I would never recommend it to anyone. And the 10 percent bonus isnt worth it. I recommend days. Then it just seems like a really long work shift, as opposed to hell in a hand basket.

I work 7pm to 7am often and love it, though it's network surveillance (and some overflow calls like 611) so probably different as I'm just sitting at a desk watching screens and taking the occasional phone call. Some nights get super busy if there's storms or w/e. I can see full blown physical/mental work being tough at night though... what kind of stuff happens at a factory at night? Is it mostly cleanup stuff and all that? I can see that being quite demanding.

Actually, I did not know this stuff was even made in the US? I thought it was all China. I know Foxconn is pretty big into this stuff. (it's not just iphones they make).

 

[StrangerGuy]

I work 7pm to 7am often and love it, though it's network surveillance (and some overflow calls like 611) so probably different as I'm just sitting at a desk watching screens and taking the occasional phone call. Some nights get super busy if there's storms or w/e. I can see full blown physical/mental work being tough at night though... what kind of stuff happens at a factory at night? Is it mostly cleanup stuff and all that? I can see that being quite demanding.

Actually, I did not know this stuff was even made in the US? I thought it was all China. I know Foxconn is pretty big into this stuff. (it's not just iphones they make).

Chip foundries != electronics assembly plants.

 

[Red Squirrel]

Chip foundries != electronics assembly plants.

I knew that, but did not figure neither were made in the US, just surprising to see, and nice to see some companies actually doing it in North America instead of overseas.

 

[Rumpltzer]

I knew that, but did not figure neither were made in the US, just surprising to see, and nice to see some companies actually doing it in North America instead of overseas.

Yes, Intel makes the good stuff in the States. IBM and Texas Instruments are also large US producers, and GloFo is building what will be the most advanced (when it gets done) manufacturing and research facility in upstate New York. There are many fabs running in the US.

A listing of the biggest foundry producers is here:
http://www.icinsights.com/news/bull...ry-Ranking-Has-Sights-Set-On-2-Spot-In-2013-/

Not listed are Intel and TI and many others who are not foundry players (except to the largest of customers). Most of the foundries actually are overseas, and Taiwan is a huge player. Export control prevents some advanced technology from entering China, but there's a lot on the low-end (which isn't that low) that can be produced there.

Also, although GloFo is listed as a US company, I'm guessing that that's because their headquarters is in the Bay Area. They are actually Abu Dhabi owned, and their fabs are in Dresden (former AMD fab), Singapore, and upstate New York.

 

[Sheep221]

thanks for the warm info! Good to know, well I want to study for masters in electrical engineering, the problem is do they accept all degrees or only some specific schools are accepted?

oh and there are alot of fabs in america and europe, in fact most x86 CPUs are made there, countries like costa rica, malaysia and more are assembly lines where they only package the chips from wafers
Arizona is known to have alot of fabs, in Europe there are in Germany, UK and Ireland

 

[Schfifty Five]

Hello,

As this is highly specialized forum, there are for sure some people here who work or have worked in semiconductor fab. I would like to do this kinda job once and would be nice to know what education you need for it, I guess probably masters in electrical engineering or computing is needed, what responsibilities you have and what is your personal view of doing it and how you enjoy it.
How are the salaries and possible dangers/risk in this work...etc

You are not required to share anything that is confidential or should not be told I just want to hear opinions and some basic info about it, and how to get into something like this, what education and experience I need and so on.

thnx

I worked in the semiconductor industry as a fabrication engineer (mostly doing process/mfg work) for 2.5 years at a very large globally recognized company. It was interesting work, but being in a clean suit for 9-10 hours out of your 12 hour shift was pretty miserable. Pay wasn't bad. I had an BSEE background.

I'm not sure what kind of work you want to do but you can work in a fab without much education. Of course that type of work is grunt/tech work. If you want to do analysis, design, etc, you need at least a bachelor's in engineering (EE, CE, Chem E, Mech E, etc). You learn most of the work on the job but having some working knowledge on how semiconductors work helps.

 

[Sheep221]

What is actually miserable about it, is too warm or it just isn't comfortable to wear for a long time?

 

[Schfifty Five]

What is actually miserable about it, is too warm or it just isn't comfortable to wear for a long time?

It gets really hot since you're covered head to toe. You start sweating and it just feels really gross having all that on.

 

[shortylickens]

Mine was breathable and heat wasnt the problem. Its just the long gowning process thats annoying.

 

[l0cke]

Interesting thread. I've been to the Atmel fab and there's a fab in my school, but I've never actually been inside one.

 

[jpiniero]

So you don't dance to disco hits all day?

This thread made me look for my Bunny Suit toy that I had. Didn't find it.