How is CrossfireX vs SLi scaling these days?

[Madcatatlas]

hey guys, Im really impressed by the Gtx460 1g card from Nvidia but its not enough power for me as a single card.

If i were to go for a deal, it would have to be a SLI setup or alternatively a CrossfireX setup from ATI with some used 5850s or 5870s, as they are priced too high, relative to their performance, atm in my opinion.

So naturally i wanted to know how the different setups scaled from one card to 2 and then ultimately to 3 cards. Ive read that quad setups arent really worth it for several reasons.

So far, ive found these posts on the beyond3d forums. im just going to copy paste the posts to make the topic more tidy.

if anyone has other sources regarding the topic, id like to see those too.

http://www.hardware.info/nl-NL/artic...TX_480_test/13

(Yes, the drivers are outdated)
And I remembered the percents a bit wrong, here's the correct row:
GTX480 > GTX480 SLI: 78.7% scaling
GTX480 > GTX480 3-way SLI: 128.2% scaling
GTX480 SLI > GTX480 3-way SLI: 27.2% scaling

HD5870 > HD5870 CFX: 70.9% scaling
HD5870 > HD5870 3-way CFX: 151.8% scaling
HD5870 CFX > HD5870 3-way CFX: 46.9% scaling

edit:
http://www.benchmarkextreme.com/Arti...leneck/P1.html
There's newer drivers for nVidia, which indicate around same scaling numbers as the older drivers

- post by Kaotik on the beyond3d forums

Pretty close to the same percentages from Xbits recent review : Four Radeon HD 5870 vs Three GeForce GTX 480

summary of 1st half of benchmarks are posted here and here.. out of about 70 different benches ATI had better scaling in 60ish with NV better in 10 or so.

- post by fbuffer on the beyond3d forums.

 

[happy medium]

Best bang for your buck is gtx 460 1gb in sli. 90 percent scaling in most games with better performance then 5850's in crossfire due to better scaling. When overclocked they reach a 700$ 5970's performance.

 

[JAG87]

First of all, you buy the fastest single gpu card available, then if it's not enough you add more. You never, ever, build a multi gpu setup with mid-range cards. Second, forget 4 way all together, just forget about it.

If you want to know the basics jist of it, going from 1 to 2 cards is always a well-worth investment, going from 2 to 3, is sometimes worth investment. It depends heavily on the games you play, the resolution, the amount of AA, and how fast your CPU is.

In general, 2 way scaling is better with SLI (more consistent), while 3 way scaling tends to be better a better investment with Crossfire.

 

[Tempered81]

SLI still scales better. Different sites will have contrasting opinions, but skimming over enough reviews ... 50-70 percent for Xfire and 70-90 % for SLI.

IMO, it's about ~65% CF and ~80% SLI. It also depends a lot on the resolution, game, platform, directx, user error, etc..

 

[happy medium]

Read this gtx 460 sli review. The scaling is near 90/100 percent now.
@2500x1600 97 percent overall?

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/geforce-gtx-460-sli-geforce-gtx-480,2694-9.html

23 percent faster then a gtx 480 for the same price.

And don't forget, MOST if not ALL gtx 460's will overclock 20 percent.

 

[brybir]

Read this gtx 460 sli review. The scaling is near 90/100 percent now.
@2500x1600 97 percent overall?

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/geforce-gtx-460-sli-geforce-gtx-480,2694-9.html

23 percent faster then a gtx 480 for the same price.

And don't forget, MOST if not ALL gtx 460's will overclock 20 percent.

I would still rather by a GTX480 and then add a 2nd one later on when I need the performance. If you get a pair of GTX460's now, you may find yourself a year or so down the road looking for more juice but then be stuck with either 3-way SLI or buying new cards again.

Alternatively, if you do it right, in about a year the GTX 480 will be much much cheaper than it is now, and 2x GTX480 even in a year should be able to rival the best of the best, whereas in a year from now 2x GTX460 will still be good, but not great.

So I think of it this way:

Now:

GTX480 = 100% (baseline for all other % here)
Total Spent = $449

2xGTX460 = 123%
Total Spent = $458


Next year:

2XGTX480 = 190% (assuming 90 scaling)
Total Spent = $649 (assuming price drops to $200 in 12 months)

2xGTX460 = 123%
Total Spent = $458



So I guess my point is that over time, its usually better to go with one really good card now, and adding a second later. By going the 2xGTX480 route, you end up paying $200 for a 90% increase in performance, which is not far from the total performance of the entire 2xGTX460 setup!

Also, a 2x GTX480 could very well be faster than any single card solution for the next few generations to come. 2x4870's are still very competitive and they have been around for a long time now. 2xGTX460 will almost certainly be beat by single cards of the next generation, so why not go for the long term route that will give you the best value?



Edit: However, I would not get 2x480's right now because the noise would not be acceptable and I would definetly need a much more expensive PSU, but the above is just an example and to highlight the earlier posters point about using the high end card to do SLI/Xfire with.

 

[happy medium]

If you get a pair of GTX460's now, you may find yourself a year or so down the road looking for more juice

Just in time for the gtx580 and the 6870.

You forgot the new psu you will need for the 2 gtx 480's also.

 

[Wreckage]

If you get a pair of GTX460's now, you may find yourself a year or so down the road looking for more juice

If you are a hardware enthusiast you generally look for more juice every 3-6 months anyways.

The compelling thing about SLI is the ability to offload PhysX. Not to mention extra horsepower for CUDA apps if you are into such a thing (folding@home) for example.

Personally I would prefer 1 super GPU, but that's not for everyone. A GTX485 might be just what the doctor ordered.

 

[happy medium]

Personally I would prefer 1 super GPU, but that's not for everyone. A GTX485 might be just what the doctor ordered.

Any news on this puppy yet?

 

[Skurge]

If you are a hardware enthusiast you generally look for more juice every 3-6 months anyways.

The compelling thing about SLI is the ability to offload PhysX. Not to mention extra horsepower for CUDA apps if you are into such a thing (folding@home) for example.

Personally I would prefer 1 super GPU, but that's not for everyone. A GTX485 might be just what the doctor ordered.

Wouldn't 2 cards in SLI be faster than 1 card doing the graphics and the other doing physx?

I personally doubt we will be seeing a 485, I don't see any reason for nV to release it, they certainly won't catch a 5970 and They will have to deal with the increased Heat and power consumption.

Is that signature really necessary?

I don't see the use of a setup more powerful than a single 480 or 5870. What res are you running at?

 

[Wreckage]

Wouldn't 2 cards in SLI be faster than 1 card doing the graphics and the other doing physx?

Indeed. But a powerful GPU can handle most the PhysX that we have seen so far.

I personally doubt we will be seeing a 485, I don't see any reason for nV to release it, they certainly won't catch a 5970 and They will have to deal with the increased Heat and power consumption.

I doubt they care about the 5970 it's a niche product in a niche market. I'm sure they are just waiting to get rid of all the old GF100's

Is that signature really necessary?

It's a direct quote from a popular tech website. Don't shoot the messenger. Besides for some reason the Anandtech system spec page no longer works. So far 2 people have changed their sig to counter mine. So....

I don't see the use of a setup more powerful than a single 480 or 5870. What res are you running at?

Right now I'm running @ 16x10. But I soooo and ready to pull the trigger on this bad boy.
http://www.mwave.com/mwave/SKUSearch...iteria=BA32039

Any news on this puppy yet?

Seems all the news right now is on the GF108. As long as the 480 is the top chip, they will probably want to clear out the old GF100's before bringing out a 475/485/495.

 

[JAG87]

23 percent faster then a gtx 480 for the same price.

This is about the dumbest reasoning you can make when buying a GPU.

I can easily show you how two GTX 460s cry for mercy while one GTX 480 leaves them in the dust.

Just play a game that is heavy on vram, turn vsync on (which engages triple buffering), and turn TRSSAA, or god forbid SGSSAA on.

Voila, GTX 460s will be putting out single digit frame rates, GTX 480 will do just fine.

Just because most people don't know or don't care enough about image quality to experience this, doesn't mean GTX 460 SLI is a better setup.

 

[Grooveriding]

This is about the dumbest reasoning you can make when buying a GPU.

I can easily show you how two GTX 460s cry for mercy while one GTX 480 leaves them in the dust.

Just play a game that is heavy on vram, turn vsync on (which engages triple buffering), and turn TRSSAA, or god forbid SGSSAA on.

Voila, GTX 460s will be putting out single digit frame rates, GTX 480 will do just fine.

Just because most people don't know or don't care enough about image quality to experience this, doesn't mean GTX 460 SLI is a better setup.

I would listen to what he is saying. If you are planning to SLI, and you upgrade not too often, get one 480 and another later, if your power supply is of concern, upgrade it.


It's always worth upgrading your PSU to something ridiculously powerful as it will future proof you for a long while. It's similar to a monitor purchase, buy the biggest and best you can afford, you'll keep it for a long time through many builds.

2x460 in SLI is alright, but that performance gain you see will not be consistent again putting it in line with one 480. I always prefer one card myself, but at my resolution, there is no single gpu capable.


Edit: also as to his comment about cranking AA, if you are 1920x1200 or above and want to play with stuff like TRSAA etc, the 460s will not be able to deliver.

 

[happy medium]

I can easily show you how two GTX 460s cry for mercy while one GTX 480 leaves them in the dust.

Show me the link to the review.

 

[Ben90]

This is about the dumbest reasoning you can make when buying a GPU.

I can easily show you how two GTX 460s cry for mercy while one GTX 480 leaves them in the dust.

Just play a game that is heavy on vram, turn vsync on (which engages triple buffering), and turn TRSSAA, or god forbid SGSSAA on.

Voila, GTX 460s will be putting out single digit frame rates, GTX 480 will do just fine.

Just because most people don't know or don't care enough about image quality to experience this, doesn't mean GTX 460 SLI is a better setup.

Your argument is horribly horribly flawed. First off, extreme-niche-situations withstanding, a 460 SLI setup will perform better basically 100% of the time. This includes 2560x1600 with AA. For the flawed part:

By the time a 480 comes down in price, your own unrealistic metric would have your 480 sli being in the single digit framerates since your going to be pushing 2560x1600x3 obviously with Vysnc and SSAA on Mac OSX with a shit-ton of Vram heavy things open while the single 580 would be singing along happily.

I'm not discouraging the option of 480s, because its very viable, but I can't stand arguments that make no sense.

 

[Grooveriding]

Your argument is horribly horribly flawed. First off, extreme-niche-situations withstanding, a 460 SLI setup will perform better basically 100% of the time. This includes 2560x1600 with AA. For the flawed part:

By the time a 480 comes down in price, your own unrealistic metric would have your 480 sli being in the single digit framerates since your going to be pushing 2560x1600x3 obviously with Vysnc and SSAA on Mac OSX with a shit-ton of Vram heavy things open while the single 580 would be singing along happily.

I'm not discouraging the option of 480s, because its very viable, but I can't stand arguments that make no sense.

You're absolutely wrong. 1GB of VRAM is not enough at 2560x1600 with AA. Also the 460s would lack the horsepower even with more vram to push that resolution with AA.

 

[happy medium]

You're absolutely wrong. 1GB of VRAM is not enough at 2560x1600 with AA. Also the 460s would lack the horsepower even with more vram to push that resolution with AA.

Funny the gtx 285 1gb in sli can run @2500x1600 with 4x AA. Why can't the gtx 460? Care to explain how the faster gtx 460 sli setup with 90 percent scaling can't?
A good overclock with the gtx 460's net you 5970 performance, and we all know the 5970 can utilize the 2gb of memory.

 

[Grooveriding]

Funny the gtx 285 1gb in sli can run @2500x1600 with 4x AA. Why can't the gtx 460? Care to explain how the faster gtx 460 sli setup with 90 percent scaling can't?
A good overclock with the gtx 460's net you 5970 performance, and we all know the 5970 can utilize the 2gb of memory.

Turn everything on to enthusiast and get back to me while they hitch and groan.

What is this love affair you have with the 460s ? Focus group is all full-up, you're not going to make yourself a place.

You're also looking at averages, where are the minimums, I owned 285 SLI, it was unplayable on max settings in Crysis. Do you have any personal context for your opinions beyond linking whatever bench suits your assertions ?

 

[WaitingForNehalem]

Indeed. But a powerful GPU can handle most the PhysX that we have seen so far.


I doubt they care about the 5970 it's a niche product in a niche market. I'm sure they are just waiting to get rid of all the old GF100's


It's a direct quote from a popular tech website. Don't shoot the messenger. Besides for some reason the Anandtech system spec page no longer works. So far 2 people have changed their sig to counter mine. So....


Right now I'm running @ 16x10. But I soooo and ready to pull the trigger on this bad boy.
http://www.mwave.com/mwave/SKUSearch...iteria=BA32039


Seems all the news right now is on the GF108. As long as the 480 is the top chip, they will probably want to clear out the old GF100's before bringing out a 475/485/495.

I just got that monitor. It's fantastic!

 

[happy medium]

Turn everything on to enthusiast and get back to me while they hitch and groan.

What is this love affair you have with the 460s ? Focus group is all full-up, you're not going to make yourself a place.

You're also looking at averages, where are the minimums, I owned 285 SLI, it was unplayable on max settings in Crysis. Do you have any personal context for your opinions beyond linking whatever bench suits your assertions ?

They can't use enthusiast , the 5870's won't have playable resolutions either.

Edit: focus group? Cool a personal attack, now I know I made my point. thanks

Edit: back on topic.... sli scaling is much better.

 

[Grooveriding]

They can't use enthusiast , the 5870's won't have playable resolutions either.

Edit: focus group? Cool a personal attack, now I know I made my point. thanks

Edit: back on topic.... sli scaling is much better.

5870 crossfire can run Crysis at 2560x1600 just fine on enthusiast, but -not- with 4xaa... it then hitches. See, you really don't have any context for your opinions.

Again, I have a context for my opinions on performance.

You don't make points, you just spam endless threads. You try to make points with this bench and that bench, but really have zero experience with anything you're saying.

There is no need to make a post every time someone blows a fart in the direction of a GTX series card.

 

[JAG87]

It's always worth upgrading your PSU to something ridiculously powerful as it will future proof you for a long while. It's similar to a monitor purchase, buy the biggest and best you can afford, you'll keep it for a long time through many builds.

2x460 in SLI is alright, but that performance gain you see will not be consistent again putting it in line with one 480. I always prefer one card myself, but at my resolution, there is no single gpu capable.


Edit: also as to his comment about cranking AA, if you are 1920x1200 or above and want to play with stuff like TRSAA etc, the 460s will not be able to deliver.

Exactly. Listen to this man.

Happy medium, I can't give you a review because nobody cares to use the proper settings and see at what point these cards face plant. You really should stop acting like you know it all and actually listen to the people who have the hardware and have experimented with it. Anyone with brains who considers SLI does so because he demands image quality. There is nothing to be had above 60 fps, anybody buying SLI to go after numbers is an idiot, kind of like the people buying SLI to play at 1680x1050.

And Ben90, I'm not saying the OP should buy a 480 and then add another 480 down the road when the 580 is out. If you had actually understood "my flawed logic", you would know that I would never recommend such thing, but rather would sell the 480 and replace it with the 580, because once again chasing available performance by stacking older/slower/mainstream GPUs is a STUPID IDEA. It is better to have a single card perform almost as good as two cards and not depend on any software profiles. There are still games within SLI profiles that are set by nvidia to Single GPU rendering. I remember Operation Flashpoint DR being one of them for a long while, and having to make my own profile using the flags from Dirt and GRID.

When you go SLI, you do it with the best single gpu cards (available at the moment), right away (not stack it later), and because you're forced to (to get 60 fps at max IQ). Under no other circumstance is multigpu a smarter solution then a single faster GPU.

 

[happy medium]

5870 crossfire can run Crysis at 2560x1600 just fine on enthusiast, but -not- with 4xaa... it then hitches. See, you really don't have any context for your opinions.

Again, I have a context for my opinions on performance.

You don't make points, you just spam endless threads. You try to make points with this bench and that bench, but really have zero experience with anything you're saying.

There is no need to make a post every time someone blows a fart in the direction of a GTX series card.

There is a thing called a ignore post feature, if you dont like my posts,points,context ,use it. I'm not arguing with you in every thread, so you can personally attack me with nothing to back it up but your word.

 

[happy medium]

I can't give you a review because nobody cares to use the proper settings and see at what point these cards face plant.

Because no one uses them settings. Ok , mabe .000001 percent of gamers.

 

[JAG87]

Because no one uses them settings. Ok , mabe .000001 percent of gamers.

Yes, about the same percentage of gamers that own SLI setups according to Steam.