How Important is 1776 in American History?

[Stayfr0sty]

No, but you certainly are.

Go away, your annoying and your a major troll.

 

[bononos]

Why should or why shouldn't?

The Magna Carta was historically important as a milestone of any questioning of absolute authority by the king, which had been the norm before.

But it's widely misunderstood and overrated - it was nothing more than the second-tier nobility organizing (the first union!) and forcing the king to give them more power.

An agreement the king promptly reneged on, and not much use to the people.

Yes just as the magna carta was also misused as a milestone for democracy, 1776 was a war in which the landed squires of America would seek separation from their overseas masters. But this fable is important as a cornerstone in the myth of American exceptionalism where America as a shining example to the rest of humanity to be emulated and admired by all. The same mentality is still very much in the American psyche.

But just a short time later America turned its back on Cuba by slapping sanctions on the country and forcing Cuba to pay Europeans for the privilege of being free. America was afraid of the infection of liberation spreading to its shores.

The go west mentality would push America into small wars with Latin America, Hawaii, Philippines picking up valuable colonies along the way in the era of mercantilism.

 

[Zebo]

Why shouldn't the magna carta be any less important than 1776?
Did America continue to live out the glorious 1776 in its dealings with Latin America, Cuba, Hawaii, Philippines in the 19/20th centuries?

It's way less important because in practice it did not limit the power of kings nor gave any democracy whatsoever. It wasnt until 100 years after 1776 they followed our lead more with the Reform Acts.

Power corrupts what can I say plus we averted from our isolationist stance the founding fathers had and instead of being a well wisher of liberty and democracy doing it by point of gun. Still doesnt change the epic historical importance of that year nor the principles behind it which all modern democracies took cues from and will continue to in the future.

 

[Linflas]

I remember loving hearing the stories about the Revolutionary War and the heroics of George Washington when I was a child. But as I've grown up, I've come to realize that 1776 isn't especially relevant anymore.

Simply put, there are other groups in the USA which have no real connection to 1776. For example

-Irish, Italians, Jews, and other "white non-protestant ethnics"

Yet all those and more streamed here by the millions whenever the opportunity allowed and built much better lives for themselves and their descendants than would have been possible in their native lands. My Italian grandfather understood deeply what made America exceptional, that it was the first country on the planet that was founded on the revolutionary idea that human beings had rights inherent to them by birth, not granted to them by governments or royalty.

-African-Americans for whom the Civil War was truly the war of independence

Black african slavery was established in the America's before the first English settlers stepped ashore on Roanoke Island. Our Civil War settled the issue of slavery for them in the United States and it would take 90 more years for that promise to be fully realized by doing away the the "separate but equal" doctrine that was used to disenfranchise them from full participation in American society.

-Native Americans for whom American independence meant that checks on westward expansion of European settlers were gone.

Do you really think that absent the American Revolution westward expansion of people of European descent would not have taken place? The only checks on it at that time were competing claims by various European nations of different portions of the continent. At the time of the revolution there were already Spaniards in what is now Texas and California, French in what eventually became the Louisiana Purchase, and Scotch-Irish and English pushing westward over the Appalachians.

So how much emphasis on 1776 is appropriate?

More than is currently placed on it. As stated above it was the first time in history that a nation was established that recognized that human beings had rights inherent to them by birth, not granted to them by other humans and that governments should be established in such a way to ensure those rights would not be infringed upon. However imperfectly we have followed those ideals over the past 236 years we have steadily made progress towards greater freedoms and liberties not just for those that enjoyed them in 1776 but for all that live here today.

 

[Zebo]

Human rights, natural rights, and liberties are important but most important was concept of consent of the governed - the afore mentioned just follow. Any anything else we want (after we pass constitutional muster or override it) Divine rights of kings and pharos and nobles replaced by our divine right.

 

[bononos]

It's way less important because in practice it did not limit the power of kings nor gave any democracy whatsoever. It wasnt until 100 years after 1776 they followed our lead more with the Reform Acts.

Power corrupts what can I say plus we averted from our isolationist stance the founding fathers had and instead of being a well wisher of liberty and democracy doing it by point of gun. Still doesnt change the epic historical importance of that year nor the principles behind it which all modern democracies took cues from and will continue to in the future.

In the same way 1776 was also not purely or mostly a democratic movement.

It is a myth that America was a well wisher of liberty/democracy as exemplified in its treatment of Cuba. And it is another myth that America tried to spread democracy by the point of a gun. It picked up colonies by denying those native inhabitants democracy and forcing them to accept an aristocracy by the point of a gun in its 'small wars'. But America was successful in persuading its own citizens that its overseas campaigns were struggles to spread democracy.

 

[Munky]

Let me guess, we should stop celebrating 1776 because some minorities find it offensive... Those minorities are welcome to leave.

 

[brandonb]

No, just fascists and right wing bigots. After all before stalin went crazy thats what the gulags were for, to reducate the idiots and exterminate the nazi colaborators.

Do you know what bigot even means? Intolerant of another's belief or opinion. That's you... This way to the camp!

 

[FerrelGeek]

I remember loving hearing the stories about the Revolutionary War and the heroics of George Washington when I was a child. But as I've grown up, I've come to realize that 1776 isn't especially relevant anymore.

Simply put, there are other groups in the USA which have no real connection to 1776. For example

-Irish, Italians, Jews, and other "white non-protestant ethnics"

-African-Americans for whom the Civil War was truly the war of independence

-Native Americans for whom American independence meant that checks on westward expansion of European settlers were gone.

So how much emphasis on 1776 is appropriate?

Thank you for providing an example of how far our modern 'education' system has fallen.

You're assuming the event is only relevant for those whose ancestors were present at the time of the signing. All of those immigrants you mentioned came to this country because of the freedoms and opportunity it provided. For them, the declaration of independence is incredibly relevant, for in many cases the principles outlined there were the difference between the land they were coming to and the land they were leaving. There is no greater believer than a convert.

THIS!

I learned about the revolution, the Articles of Confederation, the Constitution, slavery/the abolitionist movement, the Civil War, the march west, the industrial revolution, the plight of the immigrants, the plight of the American Indians, the birth of the US as a world power, the 2 world wars, etc. I learned US history, warts and all. Yes, our country has had its share of things to be shameful of. Every country in history has. But if you think that those shameful periods negate the significance of our founding, and what this country, fundamentally was founded on, you're an idiot.

 

[Jaskalas]

obviously it is important, but the question is is too much emphasis put on it.

I read somewhere that Tea Party activists were wanting to scrub the history books of references to minority history. I believe that they are largely in thrall to the 1776 myth.

That's a separate issue of misguided nationalistic ignorance.

What do folks trying to white wash the history books have to do with the revolution?

 

[micrometers]

Thank you for providing an example of how far our modern 'education' system has fallen.



THIS!

I learned about the revolution, the Articles of Confederation, the Constitution, slavery/the abolitionist movement, the Civil War, the march west, the industrial revolution, the plight of the immigrants, the plight of the American Indians, the birth of the US as a world power, the 2 world wars, etc. I learned US history, warts and all. Yes, our country has had its share of things to be shameful of. Every country in history has. But if you think that those shameful periods negate the significance of our founding, and what this country, fundamentally was founded on, you're an idiot.

I think that black slavery is far more shameful than anything that Denmark ever did.

 

[micrometers]

Let me guess, we should stop celebrating 1776 because some minorities find it offensive... Those minorities are welcome to leave.

No. I'm saying that what is put into history books is a zero-sum game because you only have so much time. The more time you spend on 1776, the less time you have for everything else.

 

[micrometers]

That's a separate issue of misguided nationalistic ignorance.

No, it is related.

 

[Linflas]

obviously it is important, but the question is is too much emphasis put on it.

I read somewhere that Tea Party activists were wanting to scrub the history books of references to minority history. I believe that they are largely in thrall to the 1776 myth.

I read somewhere that progressives want to scrub history books of references to individual liberty and the the founding father's contributions to establishing the United States. Wow! This is fun pulling nonsense from a dark place and smearing entire groups with a gratuitous assertions.

 

[EagleKeeper]

I think that black slavery is far more shameful than anything that Denmark ever did.

Slavery was instituted by the English in America at the time.

Fully supported by the native Africans. They were the ones that pushed slavery and still do.

 

[monovillage]

I think that black slavery is far more shameful than anything that Denmark ever did.

Denmark abolished slavery in 1803, a good 60 years earlier then the United States.
http://www.anti-slaverysociety.addr.com/hda-danmark.htm

 

[Munky]

No. I'm saying that what is put into history books is a zero-sum game because you only have so much time. The more time you spend on 1776, the less time you have for everything else.

There is no way a history book or class can accurately cover every event in history. It must pick and choose no matter what. With that said, I would give 1776 greater importance to the foundation of this country than anything else. Not just the war for independence, but the resulting idea of liberty on which the Constitution and the government was founded.

 

[micrometers]

I read somewhere that progressives want to scrub history books of references to individual liberty and the the founding father's contributions to establishing the United States. Wow! This is fun pulling nonsense from a dark place and smearing entire groups with a gratuitous assertions.

as I said, it is a zero sum game. Certainly the ideals of America should be stressed.

But little spurious details like...John Adams really aren't worth caring about.

 

[micrometers]

Denmark abolished slavery in 1803, a good 60 years earlier then the United States.
http://www.anti-slaverysociety.addr.com/hda-danmark.htm

even so, Denmark never had such a widespread institution of black slavery. Really, the only country that can rival the USA for this caste system is India.

 

[Iron Wolf]

Denmark abolished slavery in 1803, a good 60 years earlier then the United States.
http://www.anti-slaverysociety.addr.com/hda-danmark.htm

The point being that slavery was acceptable throughout most of human history, and it is only recently that people have changed their mind about it. The founding fathers knew it would be a problem because the tide of world opinion was turning, but they chose in the name of unity to ignore the problem and kick the can down the road for the next generation to handle.

The founding fathers didn't have an original idea by creating the US, they modeled the government after the democracy of Athens, and the Republic of Rome, not to mention the systems in place in England at the time.

I'm not sure we wouldn't have been better off if the English hadn't have stormed the Continental Congress in 1776, and just hung everybody there. After all, look at Canada, Australia, etc. The difference being that we would have had a strong, stable central government with an experienced leadership, instead of a bunch of inexperienced idiots who had to figure things out as they went along, and who made a lot of mistakes.

Where the US really went wrong though was the Civil War, the ultimate expression of Unionism and Federalism vs Jeffersonian States-Rights and individual freedom ideologies, which gave rise to the massively bloated, overbearing, and out-of-control central government and the "tyranny of the majority" which the Fathers were so afraid of which we have today.

 

[Linflas]

as I said, it is a zero sum game. Certainly the ideals of America should be stressed.

But little spurious details like...John Adams really aren't worth caring about.

I wasn't talking about John Adams rather I was addressing your undocumented assertion that "I read somewhere that Tea Party activists were wanting to scrub the history books of references to minority history. I believe that they are largely in thrall to the 1776 myth". Absent a credible link that is nothing more than worthless drivel seeking to discredit an entire group of people much like my equally worthless and sarcastic assertion regarding progressives.

 

[irishScott]

OP, are you for real?

Without the creation of America everything you posted is meaningless. Maybe not every group has a positive view of the creation of America, but that doesn't make it unimportant. For "growing up", judging by your posts you wouldn't pass some GED questions.

 

[Craig234]

Slavery was instituted by the English in America at the time.

Fully supported by the native Africans. They were the ones that pushed slavery and still do.

Drop the offensive crap. SOME Africans corruptly participated in the slave trade. It was hardly all of them. It doesn't whitewash the Europeans who did.

Some Jews helped the Nazis in concentration camps IIRC. Some French participated in the Nazi government in France. Others resisted.

Do you just say 'the Nazis were fully supported by the French people'?

 

[Craig234]

I read somewhere that progressives want to scrub history books of references to individual liberty and the the founding father's contributions to establishing the United States. Wow! This is fun pulling nonsense from a dark place and smearing entire groups with a gratuitous assertions.

Problem with your false equivalency is ignorance of things like the tea party types in Texas actually scrubbing textbooks used across the country to minimize Jefferson's role in the founding of the country because of their right-wing politics. It was blatant falsifying of history.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/13/education/13texas.html?_r=1

 

[micrometers]

I wasn't talking about John Adams rather I was addressing your undocumented assertion that "I read somewhere that Tea Party activists were wanting to scrub the history books of references to minority history. I believe that they are largely in thrall to the 1776 myth". Absent a credible link that is nothing more than worthless drivel seeking to discredit an entire group of people much like my equally worthless and sarcastic assertion regarding progressives.

can't find the link, but trust me when I say that it happened. I read about it.