How high can I aim?

[Raswan]

Greetings all. I am in the mood to upgrade my processor, but having been otherwise occupied since my last build (about two years ago) my knowledge is probably so out of date it's laughable. I was wondering if people could share their thoughts on the best possible combination of a NEW processor with my CURRENT specs, so as to maximize the use I am getting out of both. My main concern is getting an underpowered or overpowered processor, and wasting the money. Here are my current system specs:

Case= ANtec Nine Hundred Two
MoBo= GIGABYTE GA-965P-DS3 LGA 775 Intel P965 Express ATX
CPU= Intel Core 2 Duo E6300 Conroe 1.86GHz 2M shared L2 Cache LGA 775 65W
Heatsink= Tuniq Tower 120 Universal CPU Cooler 120mm Cooling Fan
RAM= G.SKILL 4GB (4 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel
GPU= HQIce4 ATI Radeon 4850 512mb
Power Supply= Antec Neo HE550
HDDs= Western Digital Caviar SE WD1600JS 160GB 7200 RPM 8MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5"and Seagate Barracude 320gb

That's about it. I'm assuming a quad core is the best bet? Though I don't know how high I can go with my current MoBo on that. I am willing (if it's absolutely necessary) to upgrade my RAM and power supply, but if it can be done without that would be even better.

Thanks in advance for any advice you can offer

-Raswan

 

[Arkaign]

Your mobo really only supports the 65nm C2D's reliably AFAIK.

Your system is pretty solid overall. IMHO you might consider jumping on one of the Fry's combos with a PhII BE + mobo (make sure it's DDR2!), as the combos basically give you a free mobo when you look at the price. You could use that mobo + your current ram for a while and either jump to a fancy mobo + DDR3, or something totally different down the line.

The other thing I think you could use would be a WD Black Edition 1TB drive, 7200RPM, 32MB Cache, Sata NCQ. It would make a world of difference!!

 

[Raswan]

Arkaign--

I thought I read something about that motherboard not being able to handle an upgrade to the quad cores, but the specs say they are supported. Can anyone else verify this? Not that I necessarily believe the manufacturer, but is it a case of the DS3 being "able" to handle it, just not reliably?

Second, how are those cpu+mobo deals in terms of the quality of the mobo? I have always been skeptical, seeing it as the easier route (and thus not the most hardware-maximizing). If I have to upgrade the mobo to be able to get a cpu that boosts performance, then of course I will. I just don't want to if I can help it.

I appreciate the tip on the hdd. I've got a similar one on the list for my bday in June

 

[Raswan]

bump

 

[Arkaign]

Check your DS3 against this list, if it's a 1.3 revision you don't have many options :

http://www.gigabyte.us/Support/Moth...UType=Socket%20775&ChipsetType=Intel P965

65nm C2D/C2Q only, which is normal considering the P965 is a circa 2006 chipset.

The Q8000/Q9000/E7000/E8000 and E5000/E6000 Pentium Duals won't work in your board, as 45nm is a no go with that mobo.

If you can find a good used Q6600/Q6700 on the FS/FT section, that'd be nice, otherwise it's probably not worth the $, new prices and ebay prices seem a little spendy.

If you have a 3.3 (?) revision, a later beta bios enables limited 45nm support, but the overclocking seems poor reading other forums, and voltages seem to default too high.

The mobos Fry's has been running with the PhII combos have been really decent lately. Obviously most of them aren't top-line SLI/Crossfire ready monsters, but they're far better than the ECS trash they used to commonly use.

Even this would be a great starting point :

http://shopping.dallasnews.com/ROP/ads.aspx?advid=2519&adid=8869831&subid=28256726&type=

$129 quad core w/Asus Mobo! That will overclock nicely, though the Athlon II X4 is about 10% slower on average clock for clock vs. the Phenom II X4, as it has no L3 cache. I've seen the same combo with PhII 925 for $149.

 

[tweakboy]

You need a complete makeover on that box of yours!

Wait and upgrade in April where the prices will fall. You get a nice system. gl

 

[Raswan]

Check your DS3 against this list, if it's a 1.3 revision you don't have many options :

http://www.gigabyte.us/Support/Moth...spx?CPUType=Socket 775&ChipsetType=Intel P965

65nm C2D/C2Q only, which is normal considering the P965 is a circa 2006 chipset.

The Q8000/Q9000/E7000/E8000 and E5000/E6000 Pentium Duals won't work in your board, as 45nm is a no go with that mobo.

If you can find a good used Q6600/Q6700 on the FS/FT section, that'd be nice, otherwise it's probably not worth the $, new prices and ebay prices seem a little spendy.

If you have a 3.3 (?) revision, a later beta bios enables limited 45nm support, but the overclocking seems poor reading other forums, and voltages seem to default too high.

The mobos Fry's has been running with the PhII combos have been really decent lately. Obviously most of them aren't top-line SLI/Crossfire ready monsters, but they're far better than the ECS trash they used to commonly use.

Even this would be a great starting point :

http://shopping.dallasnews.com/ROP/ads.aspx?advid=2519&adid=8869831&subid=28256726&type=

$129 quad core w/Asus Mobo! That will overclock nicely, though the Athlon II X4 is about 10% slower on average clock for clock vs. the Phenom II X4, as it has no L3 cache. I've seen the same combo with PhII 925 for $149.

That does look like a great deal. Here's the next question then: say I go with the first one, the Athlon XII X4, and that mobo. Is my video card and/or RAM going to be bottlenecking my system, or will everything kind of even out at a similar level. Like whats-his-nuts said above, I know prices are dropping in April, so if it's a matter of waiting (that is, to buy a better cpu/mobo, even if only slightly better ones) for that in order to fully utilize everything else, I'll wait. If it's not, I'll go ahead and make the purchase. Whaddya think?

 

[StrangerGuy]

1. Set FSB to 400MHz
2. Instant 2.8GHz
3. Profit!

 

[betasub]

Here's the next question then: say I go with the first one, the Athlon XII X4, and that mobo. Is my video card and/or RAM going to be bottlenecking my system, or will everything kind of even out at a similar level.

Don't even start worrying about "bottlenecking" without giving a specific usage scenario. Vague.

 

[AzN]

Check your DS3 against this list, if it's a 1.3 revision you don't have many options :

http://www.gigabyte.us/Support/Moth...spx?CPUType=Socket 775&ChipsetType=Intel P965

65nm C2D/C2Q only, which is normal considering the P965 is a circa 2006 chipset.

The Q8000/Q9000/E7000/E8000 and E5000/E6000 Pentium Duals won't work in your board, as 45nm is a no go with that mobo.

If you can find a good used Q6600/Q6700 on the FS/FT section, that'd be nice, otherwise it's probably not worth the $, new prices and ebay prices seem a little spendy.

If you have a 3.3 (?) revision, a later beta bios enables limited 45nm support, but the overclocking seems poor reading other forums, and voltages seem to default too high.

The mobos Fry's has been running with the PhII combos have been really decent lately. Obviously most of them aren't top-line SLI/Crossfire ready monsters, but they're far better than the ECS trash they used to commonly use.

Even this would be a great starting point :

http://shopping.dallasnews.com/ROP/ads.aspx?advid=2519&adid=8869831&subid=28256726&type=

$129 quad core w/Asus Mobo! That will overclock nicely, though the Athlon II X4 is about 10% slower on average clock for clock vs. the Phenom II X4, as it has no L3 cache. I've seen the same combo with PhII 925 for $149.

I'm lucky that I bought a board that is circa 2006 as well. I bought it day of release the summer of 2006 except my board accepts all the wolfdales through bios update.

I even bought a ds-3 before buying the p5b only to have some issues so I returned it and got this one. Luck must be on my side.

 

[soccerballtux]

Check your DS3 against this list, if it's a 1.3 revision you don't have many options :

http://www.gigabyte.us/Support/Moth...UType=Socket%20775&ChipsetType=Intel P965

65nm C2D/C2Q only, which is normal considering the P965 is a circa 2006 chipset.

The Q8000/Q9000/E7000/E8000 and E5000/E6000 Pentium Duals won't work in your board, as 45nm is a no go with that mobo.

If you can find a good used Q6600/Q6700 on the FS/FT section, that'd be nice, otherwise it's probably not worth the $, new prices and ebay prices seem a little spendy.

If you have a 3.3 (?) revision, a later beta bios enables limited 45nm support, but the overclocking seems poor reading other forums, and voltages seem to default too high.

The mobos Fry's has been running with the PhII combos have been really decent lately. Obviously most of them aren't top-line SLI/Crossfire ready monsters, but they're far better than the ECS trash they used to commonly use.

Even this would be a great starting point :

http://shopping.dallasnews.com/ROP/ads.aspx?advid=2519&adid=8869831&subid=28256726&type=

$129 quad core w/Asus Mobo! That will overclock nicely, though the Athlon II X4 is about 10% slower on average clock for clock vs. the Phenom II X4, as it has no L3 cache. I've seen the same combo with PhII 925 for $149.

Unfortunately with this board he'd have to upgrade his Ram.

I would advise the OP to get this combo:
http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2044273

He'd get to use his current RAM and have Crossfire support to boot! Overclocking would be a breeze too.

 

[aclim]

look at my sig... I have same mobo, check and see if you have rev3.3, says right on the board.

and to the above poster that deal is at a frys, we have no idea where he lives...

 

[Raswan]

The only thing that says "rev" on my board is in the lower left , right below the bottommost pci slot. it says rev 2.0

 

[Raswan]

Don't even start worrying about "bottlenecking" without giving a specific usage scenario. Vague.

How about "gaming"?

Or would you like specific games?

 

[Arkaign]

How about "gaming"?

Or would you like specific games?

Hmm for gaming, you're probably best off looking at FS/FT for a cheapish used E6700/E6800/E6850/Q6600/Q6700 chip. They will have more L2 than your current E6300, at least double, and will overclock easily and reliably into the 3ghz range, more than enough for pretty much any current game.

This guy's E6550 would be a good bet as well at only $50 : http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2046409

 

[soccerballtux]

Hmm for gaming, you're probably best off looking at FS/FT for a cheapish used E6700/E6800/E6850/Q6600/Q6700 chip. They will have more L2 than your current E6300, at least double, and will overclock easily and reliably into the 3ghz range, more than enough for pretty much any current game.

This guy's E6550 would be a good bet as well at only $50 : http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2046409

You want him to upgrade from a e6300 to a e6550? No way what a waste!

He should either get a q6600/6700 or that Frys deal I linked above. I would go for the Fry's deal to have the new motherboard (and could sell old Mobo and CPU) and crossfire support. Also a Ph2 965 overclocked to 3.8ghz+ with cpu-nb at 2.6-2.8ghz would at least beat (probably handily so) a q6600 at 3.4Ghz (3.6 is really pushing it for those chips). Plus he'd have the power savings of the 45nm Ph2 over the q6600.

 

[happy medium]

Grab a used q6600 from the for sale/trade forums for about 150$, overclock it to 3.2 easily and enjoy your system for another year at least.

q6600 Go stepping with original heatsink for 150 + shipping right here!

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2045647&highlight=q6600

Edit: your Rev 2.0 motherboard supports e8xxx,q9xxx, q8xxx series with the CO stepping and the f13 bios with overclocking also!
link to your cpu support page.

http://ee.giga-byte.com/products/mb/cpulist/ga-965p-ds3_20.html

 

[soccerballtux]

why not get a new motherboard and the Phenom 2, it's just as fast as the q6600 and he'd get crossfire support.

 

[happy medium]

why not get a new motherboard and the Phenom 2, it's just as fast as the q6600 and he'd get crossfire support.

The guy asked what's the best cpu he could use and I answered him.

The simple drop in q6600 cpu that adds 70% or more performance with a easy overclock for 150$ is the easiest and best solution.

A simple cpu upgrade could last him a year or two.
A q6600 @ 3.0 is a good match for a 5870 card.
So unless he needs more then a 5870 in a year or two, he is set.

 

[Zargon]

cache isnt going to be uber awesome for gaming anyways is it?

go quad or dont bother for sure, a little clock speed on a E6xxx upgrade isnt going to do much

the q6600 are pretty beastly, or do the AMD switch and sell your current stuff, or keep em as a spare

 

[Arkaign]

You want him to upgrade from a e6300 to a e6550? No way what a waste!

He should either get a q6600/6700 or that Frys deal I linked above. I would go for the Fry's deal to have the new motherboard (and could sell old Mobo and CPU) and crossfire support. Also a Ph2 965 overclocked to 3.8ghz+ with cpu-nb at 2.6-2.8ghz would at least beat (probably handily so) a q6600 at 3.4Ghz (3.6 is really pushing it for those chips). Plus he'd have the power savings of the 45nm Ph2 over the q6600.

Of course the PhII is a better CPU all the way, it's what I suggested earlier in the thread up there ^^. We don't know if he's near a Fry's though, or how easy it would be for him to reload his OS and all that good stuff.

The thing is that he could get the 6550 basically for free after selling the 6300. His current CPU is @ 2.8ghz, and cache does make a difference in games. The 6550 could easily go to 3.2Ghz and probably higher, which according to the chart in this thread would be about a 20% improvement in most games.

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2046421

An overclocked 6550 is good enough to max out his current 4850 512mb in games, and due to basically no cost (after selling the 6300), makes a nice holding spot until he can afford to do the whole thing right (PhII X4 BE, i5, i7, whatever).

cache isnt going to be uber awesome for gaming anyways is it?

go quad or dont bother for sure, a little clock speed on a E6xxx upgrade isnt going to do much

the q6600 are pretty beastly, or do the AMD switch and sell your current stuff, or keep em as a spare

See above, shockingly cache is HUGE for gaming, not so much for encoding. A 2.8ghz 2mb to a 3.2ghz 4mb would be about a 20% improvement for gaming (~10% due to cache, and add a 10-15% clock speed increase), and would be a perfect balance for a 4850.

I can't find the link at the moment, I'm sure someone else can locate it.

 

[happy medium]

I was under the impression that the OP didnt overclock?

If he can? take that cpu to 2.6 and watch his fps improve greatly.

http://www.legitreviews.com/article/380/4/

 

[Arkaign]

I was under the impression that the OP didnt overclock?

If he can? take that cpu to 2.6 and watch his fps improve greatly.

http://www.legitreviews.com/article/380/4/

Ah, I think I might have mixed up my replies, thought he already had his CPU overclocked. Yeah if he's running at stock speed then he's really crippled at 1.86ghz. Even at 2.6 his CPU would be just fine for gaming with a 4850.

 

[Raswan]

Yeah guys, I am not overclocking right now. I've fiddled with it in the past, but to be honest I haven't had the time required to fine tune voltages or mess with the fsb or whatever is all involved in occ'ing (90% of this is actually the lack of a good guide that is simple, clear, and convinces me I won't fry the shit out of everything). I know the basics and have seen it done plenty of times, but without a guide haven't felt comfortable doing it.

And I know, the E6300 is a great cpu for oc. That's why I picked it when I upgraded 2 years ago. Shit, now I'm thinking I should just buckle down and learn on this cpu, then upgrade to one of the ones you guys suggested when I upgrade in a couple of months. I suppose if I fuck this one up, it's not brand new at this point and would give me an excuse to upgrade the mobo too.

 

[Markfw]

DS3 motherboard I had 3 of them. So, just up the vcore to 1.4, 400 fsb and try that. (2.8) If that doesn't work, try upping the fsb termination a little.

Post back results. With your cooling, if you applied the tim correctly and the hsf, your temps won't be over 60c, and you won't fry anything.