How hard is something like this to do?

[fuzzybabybunny]

http://www.micropctalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4641

This process is not for a standard user. It requires an infrared solder station to desolder and solder SMT/SMD components. It also requires all needed equipments to deal with BGA components. And the last one is the experience.

I'm someone with no experience and no equipment. The person who did this is now making this into a service. He's charging $275 just for the service. You have to buy the CPU. I'm wondering if I can do it myself.

So.... an infrared soldering station. Would this really be required? I've seen Youtube videos with people desoldering BGA components with something that doesn't look like it's IR.

I would also need tools to clean BGA and reball the BGA CPU as well. Is this complicated?

If I can do this... I've got a super tiny Sony UX C2D powerhouse and could perhaps make some money by providing this service to other people as well.

 

[Cogman]

That... Is.... AMAZING! Holy cow that took guts for the guy to do. Im pretty sure the infrared soldering station would be a must as you are pretty much cooking off the chip and then putting the new one in its. The reason this is so gutsy is the guy basically risked 2 CPUs and a UM for something that might not even work. It is very impressive, I wouldn't dare try it myself.

 

[fuzzybabybunny]

Well, the way I see it is that he saw that the Intel 945GM chipset that's in the UX supports ULV Core 2 Duo on paper. Core 2 Solo and Core 2 Duo have the same number of pins, so why not? The worst that can happen is that it doesn't boot with the C2D, in which case you just put the Core 2 Solo back. Just gotta make sure you don't short out anything.

 

[Cogman]

Originally posted by: fuzzybabybunny
Well, the way I see it is that he saw that the Intel 945GM chipset that's in the UX supports ULV Core 2 Duo on paper. Core 2 Solo and Core 2 Duo have the same number of pins, so why not? The worst that can happen is that it doesn't boot with the C2D, in which case you just put the Core 2 Solo back. Just gotta make sure you don't short out anything.

Still, making sure that the solder aligns up on all the pins is not an easy task to do. Doing it with a soldering gun is almost certainly out of the question. Maybe one of the toaster oven soldering methods would work, but I would be to scared to do that myself.

 

[Born2bwire]

Originally posted by: Cogman

Originally posted by: fuzzybabybunny
Well, the way I see it is that he saw that the Intel 945GM chipset that's in the UX supports ULV Core 2 Duo on paper. Core 2 Solo and Core 2 Duo have the same number of pins, so why not? The worst that can happen is that it doesn't boot with the C2D, in which case you just put the Core 2 Solo back. Just gotta make sure you don't short out anything.

Still, making sure that the solder aligns up on all the pins is not an easy task to do. Doing it with a soldering gun is almost certainly out of the question. Maybe one of the toaster oven soldering methods would work, but I would be to scared to do that myself.

Toaster oven is risky because you can't direct the heat, you would have to reflow all the solder on the board. And then comes the problem of removing the original chip.

 

[videogames101]

Wow.

 

[randay]

probably impossible without the right tools.

 

[Rubycon]

Originally posted by: fuzzybabybunny

I'm someone with no experience and no equipment.

That's going to be an expensive lesson. 😉

 

[BrownTown]

You would have to have the right tools AND alot of experience.

 

[fuzzybabybunny]

Originally posted by: Rubycon

Originally posted by: fuzzybabybunny

I'm someone with no experience and no equipment.

That's going to be an expensive lesson. 😉

Say that I did get the right tools somehow. Would I be able to do this on my own? Perhaps practice a bit with other dummy BGA chips before I tackle the big CPU switch? Could save me $275 and might even earn me money if I offer it as a service.

Basically, is the manual labor hard to do?

 

[CycloWizard]

Originally posted by: fuzzybabybunny
Say that I did get the right tools somehow. Would I be able to do this on my own? Perhaps practice a bit with other dummy BGA chips before I tackle the big CPU switch? Could save me $275 and might even earn me money if I offer it as a service.

Basically, is the manual labor hard to do?

Just like everything else in electronics, whether or not it is "hard" depends on your level of competence and expertise. If you've done it 50 times, it's probably easy.

 

[chorb]

The only way to test if you properly got the new BGA part on is to turn the unit on, and if you made any mistakes ( solder bridges, no connects, etc... ) you jeopardize breaking other components on the circuit board.

Also, sometimes just heating up the board to the temperature required will cause other nearby components to fail; when the circuit board is put together often times the BGA is the first thing to be attached so its not a problem, but the rework could be.

The BGA rework station I have at work cost a quite a bit and it still makes mistakes. We also have an xray machine to check for defects.

Realistically, I don't see this turning out well as a home project, especially doing the rework as a side hobby (people might be angry if you brick their electronics)

 

[A5]

Originally posted by: fuzzybabybunny

Originally posted by: Rubycon

Originally posted by: fuzzybabybunny

I'm someone with no experience and no equipment.

That's going to be an expensive lesson. 😉

Say that I did get the right tools somehow. Would I be able to do this on my own? Perhaps practice a bit with other dummy BGA chips before I tackle the big CPU switch? Could save me $275 and might even earn me money if I offer it as a service.

Basically, is the manual labor hard to do?

I've been soldering for nearly a year now, and I wouldn't even think of attempting to reball a 478 pin BGA chip by hand. Even if you had a $6000+ BGA rework station, it takes a lot of time to come up with the right heating profiles and patterns for a chip.

To answer the original question, I don't think this is a good way to make a little money on the side due to the upfront investments in time and money and the small market for this kind of service. The guy doing it on the forums is probably using equipment at his job and already has years of practice.

 

[bobdole369]

My gf's mom - who has been soldering for over 40 years - and my dad, who has been an electronics tech in the hospital for 30 (Fixes MRI/cat scan/cardiac cath lab/x-ray machines to component level) - and I've been soldering through hole since I was 6 or 7 (over 20 years now) wouldn't attempt to redo a 478pin BGA. FUCK that.... Granted my future mother in law could probably place the thing and get it through the oven, but no way is anyone gonna actually succeed at REWORKING this without having worked with BGA stuff for a LONG time, and with access to the right stuff.

To the OP - NO WAY - forget about it.

 

[BadLot]

I do this at work every day... with a hot air gun and soldering iron. I wouldn't say forget about it, but its going to be VERY difficult. You can take the chip off, no problem. Putting the chip back on is another matter. When I do bga by hand I try to go for the small stuff.

Correctly re-balling is the hardest part. Its not a big deal to get little solder balls onto the chip. You just run a bead over a fluxed chip and you are good to go. You then do the same on the board and heat them together. The problem with this method is that its hard to get the solder balls to be as large as the originals. The problem gets bigger when you have a LARGE number of connections and/or a large chip. With 478 pins you are going to have a real hard time to get all of the balls to connect. You are also going to have a problem aligning the chip so that all of the connections are in the right spot. On real solder balls it aligns itself, on your ghetto-balls it may or may not.

What would actually save you and let you do this at home would be an ezreball or some other stencil reballing solution. This would give you all of the balls at the correct size and all you would have to do would be re-heat the chip. Without it, I wouldn't attempt this on a correctly functioning board.

Things you should know:

- You can easily scratch off the bga contacts when reballing the board or even removing the solder.
- You will have to heat the chip for a long time at 350-420C before it even moves.
- If you aren't patient you will pull the contacts up and off the board.
- SMD caps and resistors are not your friends. (especially if you slide the chip over them or drop a big ball of solder on them)
- Hot air gun = $100
- Reballing kit =??, we still haven't found a company that has stencils for modern chips (NV, intel GMA -- anyone know?)
- If you've never done this before you will probably fuck it up. Don't let this be your first time.
- The people on youtube are all doing small chips with relatively few connections. Show me someone doing an intel GMA or nforce
completely by hand.

 

[blahblah99]

Thats not hard at all if you have access to infrared bga rework station and xray visioning system.

On the other hand if you don't have any bga equipment, it's a crap shoot with a hot air gun as you will run into solder bridges, unconnected pins, and damaged chips.