How hard is it to learn Chinese?

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hans007

Lifer
Feb 1, 2000
20,212
18
81
You must remember no mater how many generations a Chinese is born outside of China they will always be Chinese. Most are enriched in Chinese culture, writing, and dialect of their family. Most Chines Americans can read Chinese very well. Remember, Chinese are fiercely loyal to China, even 3rd or 4th generation Chinese. A Chinese American is always Chinese first and always loyal to China first.

I'm Chinese american immigrant and part Filipino and born there.

Hell I got called a beloved patriot the other day in LA. But if it came down to killing everyone in china or everyone in america id save the Americans. You have to be crazy to think 3rd and 4th gen immigrants are loyal to China. Half the people left to escape that place and the culture.


Who wants to worship their parents and sacrifice and all that being quiet garbage. America is where we came to get a better world not breath in particulate matter in beijing while assembling iPods and working hard for nothing
 
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z0mb13

Lifer
May 19, 2002
18,106
1
76
Right. What I wrote was in no way meant to be offensive or derogatory. It's just a thing I've wondered because of the way Chinese sounds. To an outsider, there seems to be a pattern to the way the words are spoken.

And Apu is a heavily exaggerated caricature. I, at least, sound nothing like that.

I sound more like the anchor in this video (and I can't help it if it displeases you): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y18IXhpclTM

LOL my comment is as short sighted as ur original comment.
Just because its intelligible to you doesn't mean u can make voices up to imitate it

And yes I have indian-descent friends that have perfect english (or even sexy british accent english)
 

OinkBoink

Senior member
Nov 25, 2003
700
0
71
LOL my comment is as short sighted as ur original comment.
Just because its intelligible to you doesn't mean u can make voices up to imitate it

Oh God. You misunderstand a simple curiosity (which wasn't even serious) to be lapse of judgement. That's your call.
 

klinc

Senior member
Jan 30, 2011
555
0
0
Pinyin is roman characters to spell out Chinese words. Katakana/hiragana are syllabaries.

Except nobody uses pinyin when writing Chinese, say for a newspaper article. Katakana/hiragana are part of the daily written language in Japanese.


"If you can see this..."


BTW, Vanessa Branch speaking Chinese.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGlNdtK20Yo

VanessaBranch.jpg


Mira Sorvino also speaks Chinese.

Mira-Sorvino.jpg

hahaha yeah that line but I am serious I only see squares not Chinese. Anyway one can fix in the browser?
 

Doppel

Lifer
Feb 5, 2011
13,306
3
0
When in a foreign nation, just scream English louder until they figure it out.

Also, learning a non-English language is just rewarding non-English speakers for their bad behavior. You're facilitating this behavior by intimating that learning their language is worthwhile. Like a mom giving her druggie son money for drugs so that he doesn't cry. Don't be that mom.
 

StrangerGuy

Diamond Member
May 9, 2004
8,443
124
106
It is entirely possible to be fluent in Chinese yet can't read past the first sentence of a Chinese newspaper (like me). Can't say the same for English for sure; the written part of Chinese is painful.
 

kyrax12

Platinum Member
May 21, 2010
2,416
2
81
I'm Chinese american immigrant and part Filipino and born there.

Hell I got called a beloved patriot the other day in LA. But if it came down to killing everyone in china or everyone in america id save the Americans. You have to be crazy to think 3rd and 4th gen immigrants are loyal to China. Half the people left to escape that place and the culture.


Who wants to worship their parents and sacrifice and all that being quiet garbage. America is where we came to get a better world not breath in particulate matter in beijing while assembling iPods and working hard for nothing

Did you do anything to provoke it?
 

SheHateMe

Diamond Member
Jul 21, 2012
7,251
20
81
You must remember no mater how many generations a Chinese is born outside of China they will always be Chinese. Most are enriched in Chinese culture, writing, and dialect of their family. Most Chines Americans can read Chinese very well. Remember, Chinese are fiercely loyal to China, even 3rd or 4th generation Chinese. A Chinese American is always Chinese first and always loyal to China first.

Wat?
 

fuzzybabybunny

Moderator<br>Digital & Video Cameras
Moderator
Jan 2, 2006
10,455
35
91
It is entirely possible to be fluent in Chinese yet can't read past the first sentence of a Chinese newspaper (like me). Can't say the same for English for sure; the written part of Chinese is painful.

This is what I hate about Chinese. Even a damn menu is impossible to read. And there's no way to sound out a word and match it with something you may have heard before. It's either you recognize it or you don't. If you don't, you either look it up in a traditional dictionary by looking up the radicals and then counting the number of strokes, or write the whole thing in Google translate because the OCR abilities for Chinese characters is amazing.

I also heard that the reason Chinese is like this is because it was originally designed to be hard to learn so as to separate the educated upper class from the lower class ie. keep the uneducated, uneducated so they can continue to be exploited.
 
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WHAMPOM

Diamond Member
Feb 28, 2006
7,628
183
106
Anyone here successfully learned Chinese as a secondary language?

I heard that pin yin is very hard to adapt.

It is a tonal language. If you have a good ear and some talent at singing it will go better. You can pronounce "YIN" seven different ways with seven different meanings.
 

PowerYoga

Diamond Member
Nov 6, 2001
4,603
0
0
It is a tonal language. If you have a good ear and some talent at singing it will go better. You can pronounce "YIN" seven different ways with seven different meanings.

actually 5 ways and maybe 30-40 different meanings.
 

PowerYoga

Diamond Member
Nov 6, 2001
4,603
0
0
5? Aren't there only 4 tones? Definitely way more meanings than just 5 though.

There's the flat tone, 3 different tones and a "light" tone which might or not have a meaning depending on the word. Most words don't have the "light" version though so it's easy to forget.
 

lupi

Lifer
Apr 8, 2001
32,539
260
126
I wonder why so many of the asian languages didn't evolve from the prehistoric wall art to an alpabet based system.
 

PowerYoga

Diamond Member
Nov 6, 2001
4,603
0
0
pretty sure chinese is the only asian language that hasn't adopted an alphabetic system. Japan and Korea both have alphabetic systems, same with thailand and vietnam etc etc.
 

iroast

Golden Member
May 5, 2005
1,364
3
81
Why Chinese is hard to learn:

« Sh&#299; Shì shí sh&#299; sh&#464; »
Shíshì sh&#299;shì Sh&#299; Shì, shì sh&#299;, shì shí shí sh&#299;.
Shì shíshí shì shì shì sh&#299;.
Shí shí, shì shí sh&#299; shì shì.
Shì shí, shì Sh&#299; Shì shì shì.
Shì shì shì shí sh&#299;, shì sh&#464; shì, sh&#464; shì shí sh&#299; shìshì.
Shì shí shì shí sh&#299; sh&#299;, shì shíshì.
Shíshì sh&#299;, Shì sh&#464; shì shì shíshì.
Shíshì shì, Shì sh&#464; shì shí shì shí sh&#299;.
Shí shí, sh&#464; shí shì shí sh&#299; sh&#299;, shí shí shí sh&#299; sh&#299;.
Shì shì shì shì.
« Shy Shyh shyr shy shyy »
Shyrshyh shyshyh Shy Shyh, shyh shy, shyh shyr shyr shy.
Shyh shyrshyr shyh shyh shyh shy.
Shyr shyr, shyh shy shy shyh shyh.
Shyh shyr, shyh Shy Shyh shyh shyh.
Shyh shyh shyh shyr shy, shyh shyy shyh, shyy shyh shyr shy shyhshyh.
Shyh shyr shyh shyr shy shy, shyh shyrshyh.
Shyrshyh shy, Shyh shyy shyh shyh shyrshyh.
Shyrshyh shyh, Shyh shyy shyh shyr shyh shyr shy.
Shyr shyh, shyy shyr shyh shyr shr, shyr shyr shyr shy shy.
Shyh shyh shyh shyh.
&#12298;&#26045;&#27663;&#39135;&#29509;&#21490;&#12299;
&#30707;&#23460;&#35433;&#22763;&#26045;&#27663;&#65292;&#21980;&#29509;&#65292;&#35475;&#39135;&#21313;&#29509;&#12290;
&#27663;&#26178;&#26178;&#36969;&#24066;&#35222;&#29509;&#12290;
&#21313;&#26178;&#65292;&#36969;&#21313;&#29509;&#36969;&#24066;&#12290;
&#26159;&#26178;&#65292;&#36969;&#26045;&#27663;&#36969;&#24066;&#12290;
&#27663;&#35222;&#26159;&#21313;&#29509;&#65292;&#24643;&#30690;&#21218;&#65292;&#20351;&#26159;&#21313;&#29509;&#36893;&#19990;&#12290;
&#27663;&#25342;&#26159;&#21313;&#29509;&#23629;&#65292;&#36969;&#30707;&#23460;&#12290;
&#30707;&#23460;&#28629;&#65292;&#27663;&#20351;&#20365;&#25325;&#30707;&#23460;&#12290;
&#30707;&#23460;&#25325;&#65292;&#27663;&#22987;&#35430;&#39135;&#26159;&#21313;&#29509;&#12290;
&#39135;&#26178;&#65292;&#22987;&#35672;&#26159;&#21313;&#29509;&#23629;&#65292;&#23526;&#21313;&#30707;&#29509;&#23629;&#12290;
&#35430;&#37323;&#26159;&#20107;&#12290;
&#12298;&#26045;&#27663;&#39135;&#29422;&#21490;&#12299;
&#30707;&#23460;&#35799;&#22763;&#26045;&#27663;&#65292;&#21980;&#29422;&#65292;&#35475;&#39135;&#21313;&#29422;&#12290;
&#27663;&#26102;&#26102;&#36866;&#24066;&#35270;&#29422;&#12290;
&#21313;&#26102;&#65292;&#36866;&#21313;&#29422;&#36866;&#24066;&#12290;
&#26159;&#26102;&#65292;&#36866;&#26045;&#27663;&#36866;&#24066;&#12290;
&#27663;&#35270;&#26159;&#21313;&#29422;&#65292;&#24643;&#30690;&#21183;&#65292;&#20351;&#26159;&#21313;&#29422;&#36893;&#19990;&#12290;
&#27663;&#25342;&#26159;&#21313;&#29422;&#23608;&#65292;&#36866;&#30707;&#23460;&#12290;
&#30707;&#23460;&#28287;&#65292;&#27663;&#20351;&#20365;&#25325;&#30707;&#23460;&#12290;
&#30707;&#23460;&#25325;&#65292;&#27663;&#22987;&#35797;&#39135;&#26159;&#21313;&#29422;&#12290;
&#39135;&#26102;&#65292;&#22987;&#35782;&#26159;&#21313;&#29422;&#23608;&#65292;&#23454;&#21313;&#30707;&#29422;&#23608;&#12290;
&#35797;&#37322;&#26159;&#20107;&#12290;


A standing stone lion
Translation:
« Lion-Eating Poet in the Stone Den »
In a stone den was a poet called Shi, who was a lion addict, and had resolved to eat ten lions.
He often went to the market to look for lions.
At ten o'clock, ten lions had just arrived at the market.
At that time, Shi had just arrived at the market.
He saw those ten lions, and using his trusty arrows, caused the ten lions to die.
He brought the corpses of the ten lions to the stone den.
The stone den was damp. He asked his servants to wipe it.
After the stone den was wiped, he tried to eat those ten lions.
When he ate, he realized that these ten lions were in fact ten stone lion corpses.
Try to explain this matter.
 

fuzzybabybunny

Moderator<br>Digital & Video Cameras
Moderator
Jan 2, 2006
10,455
35
91
pretty sure chinese is the only asian language that hasn't adopted an alphabetic system. Japan and Korea both have alphabetic systems, same with thailand and vietnam etc etc.

Yeah. It's a complete pain in the ass. PITA. See what I just did there? No way to abbreviate like what I just did in Chinese.

I have a friend who does cancer research and when she goes to China everything needs to be learned all over again, like the chemical names. I don't even know how they would translate a descriptive chemical name like 1,3,7-trimethyl-1H-purine-2,6(3H,7H)-dione 3,7-dihydro-1,3,7-trimethyl-1H-purine-2,6-dione into Chinese.

Basically to do anything such as, uh, typing... they have to revert to an alphabet and drop down menus.
 

dighn

Lifer
Aug 12, 2001
22,820
4
81
pretty sure chinese is the only asian language that hasn't adopted an alphabetic system. Japan and Korea both have alphabetic systems, same with thailand and vietnam etc etc.

it has an alphabetic system (pinyin). it's just not a replacement for the characters, with good reason. there are many many chinese words with the same pronunciation due to the relative phonal simplicity of the language. (suppose you could say the same for japanese. i don't know how the hell they deal with it). personally I kind of like the character system despite its high learning curve. it's compact and lends itself well to more visual-based comprehension.
 

Fayd

Diamond Member
Jun 28, 2001
7,970
2
76
www.manwhoring.com
As mentioned, the one benefit of Chinese is that the grammar is extremely simple. In English "You went to the store yesterday" but in Chinese "You go store yesterday". In English "You are going to the store tomorrow" but in Chinese "You go store tomorrow".

so that's the story behind sterotypical asians speaking english.
 

PowerYoga

Diamond Member
Nov 6, 2001
4,603
0
0
it has an alphabetic system (pinyin). it's just not a replacement for the characters, with good reason. there are many many chinese words with the same pronunciation due to the relative phonal simplicity of the language. (suppose you could say the same for japanese. i don't know how the hell they deal with it). personally I kind of like the character system despite its high learning curve. it's compact and lends itself well to more visual-based comprehension.

pinyin is introduced lately as a "modernization" attempt by china, and doesn't work very well for the chinese population. Radical lookup for typing is much faster and easier (if you know the language) and is just as fast as typing and using dropdowns via pinying.

and yeah, that stone lion thing is not normal sentence structure, nobody talks like that. it's more of a tongue twister and a demonstration of the importance of intonation and to a lesser degree, reading comprehension. I can understand 100% of it from reading and all natives will be able to as well. But if you're just saying the words out loud, nobody, not even natives, will understand wtf you're talking about.
 

PowerYoga

Diamond Member
Nov 6, 2001
4,603
0
0
japan's alphabet system is only 1 of several different writing sets...

You can write everything in hiragana or katakana if you wanted to and even elementary school students can understand it, that's the difference. The traditional hiragana alphabet has been in use for over 1000 years. "Kanji", the chinese characters in japanese, can be written in the traditional hiragana as well. Katakana is new and used mostly with the western words and is new, but mirrors hiragana in pronounciation and has the exact same meaning.

Chinese is hard to understand just via pinyin and that's only been really formalized in the past 30 years.
 

Eug

Lifer
Mar 11, 2000
24,142
1,792
126
This is what I hate about Chinese. Even a damn menu is impossible to read. And there's no way to sound out a word and match it with something you may have heard before. It's either you recognize it or you don't. If you don't, you either look it up in a traditional dictionary by looking up the radicals and then counting the number of strokes, or write the whole thing in Google translate because the OCR abilities for Chinese characters is amazing.
It doesn't really help even if you do recognize the characters. What does - "special king's delicacy" on a menu mean to you? ;)

I also heard that the reason Chinese is like this is because it was originally designed to be hard to learn so as to separate the educated upper class from the lower class ie. keep the uneducated, uneducated so they can continue to be exploited.
That's not true, as far as I know. It's like this because it is a very ancient language that developed as a pictoral language.

For example, person is: &#20154;

Or mountain is: &#23665;

Mountain doesn't actually look much like a mountain anymore, but if you look at ancient scrolls it's actually three overlapping triangles - three mountains with three peaks, which over time changed into the character above (presumably to save time).

Similarly sun is: &#26085; but the original ancient character IIRC is a circle with a dot in the middle.

If anything the Communists did simplify things after the 1950s. The characters used in mainland China are way easier than the ones used in Japan and Taiwan because they're the simplified versions, sort of like shorthand.

Furthermore, the pin yin system was developed to help teach the language, without getting rid of Chinese characters altogether.

BTW, I personally consider Chinese and Japanese calligraphy for example to be more aesthetically pleasing than English calligraphy. Asian calligraphy is nice as framed wall art, but English calligraphy not so much.
 
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