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How hard is it to get into grad school?

M

Metalloid

Diamond Member
I'm a freshman at the University of Michigan Engineering school, which is a pretty well respected engineering program. I'll admit that college snuck up on me, because I was used to doing no work in HS and getting straight A's, so surprisingly enough I ended up with a very very dissapointing 2.877 this semester.

Classes:
Calc II - C+ ouch
Physics 140 (Mechanics) - B
Engineering 100 - B+
Soc 101 - Pass

Now is about the time I wish I had taken Soc 101 graded, because I'm sure I could have pulled off a B+, which would have boosted my GPA a bit, but oh well. I have the dreaded Calc II out of the way, and this semester was enough of a shocker to make me study a lot harder for the rest of my college career (instead of playing poker). I am going to declare myself into the Computer Engineering program next year, and am looking at either getting into grad school in that field, or looking into patent law. But, I am just curious as to what I am going to need for a cumulative GPA in order to get into grad school. I will probably end up doing my graduate work at U of M (if I can even get in here), because I seriously doubt that I could improve to a better school.

Any inputs? Or, any advice on how to make myself study? Someone told me that all of us people who breezed through HS would have a tough time adapting to college becuase we aren't used to needing to study, but I honestly thought that I still wouldn't need to. I am just happy to have a fresh start next semester.
 
aim for an overall 3.5 and above for LSA graduate programs

for EECS at umich, there is a special program where you do eecs undergrad and get a certain gpa and you can get into eecs masters program easy.
 
Ummm, there is a huge variety of grad school programs in your field. And in four years, your idea of what you want to do will likely change. But you should aim for at least a B+ (3.33) average in school, particularly in your major-related courses. Don't set your standards to low (or high), but find what you want to do/go, go to the school's homepage, they always have entrance statistics (age, gpa, GRE, etc.).

G'luck
 
why do you want to go to grad school?

honestly, it sounds like you want to go just to get a degree.

if you want to get into a good grad school, grades are not going to cut it. you'll have to have a good amount of research experience.
 
Don't worry about low grades in your first 2 years of school, especially your first semester. Most grad school programs concentrate on your last 2 years a lot more. The idea is that you'll improve as the program moves along and the academics grow on you. Now if you're ready to graduate and you got a 2.8 gpa then that's a different story.
 
Well, it depends on how you are trying to get in to grad school. I had it the easy way. For both my masters and my PhD programs I had an agreement with a professor and a research project before I actually applied to the school.(I did a lot of research and published a refereed paper while an undergrad that paid off well)

So my professors wrote to admissions and told them to admit me because I would be working for them. It's a wonderful way to bypass the main admissions process.

The best thing you can do is get yourself a major internship or research project with industry or a professor as an undergrad.(depending on what exactly your field is) This will count much more strongly in your favor than grades and may even introduce you to the people you will want to work for or who will want you working for them in grad school.
 
Getting into grad school is easy. Getting into a specific degree, at a specific grad school, with full funding is the challenge.

I'd say a 3.3-3.5 is probably the minimum you should shoot for in your GPA. But grades certainly aren't everything. There are grad school exams you need to take (the exact exam varies depending on the type of grad school). Just like the ACT/SAT are overweighted in getting into undergrad programs, the GRE/MCAT/LSAT/etc are overweighted in getting into graduate programs. Do well on that test and you'll have no problems getting into most schools.

Many times you'll be accepted without any guarantee of funding. You can go to grad school and pay for it yourself - which is a tremendous waste of money in engineering fields. Instead, you should be able to get your tuition paid for, health insurance at least partially paid for, and a $1000-$2000 monthly salary as an engineering graduate student. So funding is the real place to start looking.
[*]As a freshman, you are at the right point to start getting ready for national/international graduate school grants. Wait another year and you'll be too late for the prestigious ones. Sadly, I was never informed about this freshman deadline and missed out.
[*]You can get into undergrad reseach programs and do some research. Then when you are a senior you can apply for NSF or NASA type funding programs. These are also great grants with good stipends.
[*]You can personally contact a professor at the grad school you want. Arrange for that professor to move your admission through the process and get funding for you. This is by far the easiest way and you know you will be doing exactly what you want to do for research.
[*]You can do nothing and hope that you can get a teaching assistantship or hope that when you arrive at your new grad school that a professor has extra money and that will take you. Of course you may be doing research/teaching in an area you hate, but at least you have money.
 
I just got in grad school this semester. I agree with the advice so far. I am in CS. I got a 3.5 with a bunch of research and got rejected from some of the top schools. I think that was partially because my GPA was relatively low and partially because I blew the GRE subject test. While every case would be different and you never know what will catch their eye, I would consider myself in probably the lower quarter of applicants. Keep in mind that you are competing on an international scale for graduate degrees. From speaking with the admissions people in my department, it is not uncommon to find people with near 4.0's from India and China in my field that will totally blow your mind with how hard they will work.

The best advice is to aim for the way GimpyOne suggests. I regretted not doing that while applying. Try to find some fields that interest you. Get in touch with faculty at your school that do research in it and join them. Get in touch with the best faculty in the country and try to become their pen pals discussing their research and yours with them. Meet them at conferences. Try to establish relationships that they will feel close to you. They may intimidate you with their prestige but remember they are people too.

Good luck.
 
i agree with advice given thus far, you'll need research to help you get into grad school... also, check with grad admissions on what kind of GRE scores people are getting in with... i only had a 3.3 overall GPA, but i had some research that was right in line with a new master's program being promoted under the school of ICS at UCI... i also checked with the grad counselors on GRE scores, studied my arse off to get them...

also, when it comes down to application time, make sure you take a whole lot of time with your personal statement... it doesn't have to be long (i believe mine was only 1 page), and it really should be a reflection of you, since this is your one chance for the admissions people to connect with you on a personal level...

but yeah, just keep that all in mind as you progress thru the rest of your undergrad careef...
 
It's easy to get into grad school if you're smart and your grades reflect it.
It's hard to get into grad school if you're not smart, or if you are lazy, and your grades reflect it.

edit: Keep that in mind during the next few years of school - work hard, get good grades.. take extra courses when possible... and you shouldn't have problems getting into grad school
 
IMHO, grades are overrated.

1) In nearly every class I take, the grades are curved because the vast majority of people know their sh!t so they have to come up with a scheme that separates everyone out.
2) Grades for undergrads are highly dependent on things like your exam schedule, the professor that teaches the class, the difficulty of the final, your workload for the semester, etc.
3) Having good grades is far from guaranteeing that you'll be a good grad students, I know some people in my program that have insane GPAs but I wouldn't trust them for research because they have strictly no creativity, these are usually people who have a bit of trouble in lab classes, but ace all the theory classes.

You'd be surprised how many people get by (even in CE and EE) never really understanding what the hell they're doing, all while getting good grades.

I find that I never do all that well in exams because I'm so pressed for time that I nearly never have time give each problem as much thought as I'd like. Labs on the other hand are great because you get all the time you need to work things out and get problems solved, so I usually do well in those. The end result is that my GPA kind of sucks (3.0), but my lab TAs and profs all think I'm a great student; so there's probably a good chance that I can get into grad school in my current university (by getting a prof to help me out), but there's basically no chance that I could get into a grad program anywhere else.

<-- EE major
 
Sorry for stealing this thread, Metalloid. But my advice might be of great value to you too.
Originally posted by: RaynorWolfcastle
I find that I never do all that well in exams because I'm so pressed for time that I nearly never have time give each problem as much thought as I'd like.
Click to expand...
Tests without enough time are there for one reason, and one reason only. To separate those who know the material from those who know the material well.

It appears that you know the material fully, but you don't know it well. What is the difference? A few hours doing problems. Most people in your situation listen in class, take good notes, study hard, and get a B on the exam as they are rushed for time. Those who ace the exams will listen in class, take good notes, study hard, DO PRACTICE PROBLEMS IN ADDITION TO THE HOMEWORK, and get an A on the exam turning it in a few minutes before the bell.

But yes, grades can also be overrated.
 
Im asking the same question myself. i had a dismal GPA when i graduated college 3 years ago. now Ive been working at a research group for 3 years, authored or coauthored 10+ papers, and do phd quality work. but Im still afraid to apply to graduate school because of my dismal gpa.

Im going to have to score well on the GRE and write a good personal statement explaining why i did so poorly and why iwont do it again. not sure what else i can do.
 
College kinda snuck up on me cause I was used to sliding by in high school, too, but I found that with interesting subject matter and great profs I could actually make myself work. I've got a >4 GPA for the first time in my life at the Rice U. Its strange. Good thing, though, cause I would like to head to grad school when I finish at Rice.
 
Originally posted by: RaynorWolfcastle
IMHO, grades are overrated.

1) In nearly every class I take, the grades are curved because the vast majority of people know their sh!t so they have to come up with a scheme that separates everyone out.
2) Grades for undergrads are highly dependent on things like your exam schedule, the professor that teaches the class, the difficulty of the final, your workload for the semester, etc.
3) Having good grades is far from guaranteeing that you'll be a good grad students, I know some people in my program that have insane GPAs but I wouldn't trust them for research because they have strictly no creativity, these are usually people who have a bit of trouble in lab classes, but ace all the theory classes.

You'd be surprised how many people get by (even in CE and EE) never really understanding what the hell they're doing, all while getting good grades.

I find that I never do all that well in exams because I'm so pressed for time that I nearly never have time give each problem as much thought as I'd like. Labs on the other hand are great because you get all the time you need to work things out and get problems solved, so I usually do well in those. The end result is that my GPA kind of sucks (3.0), but my lab TAs and profs all think I'm a great student; so there's probably a good chance that I can get into grad school in my current university (by getting a prof to help me out), but there's basically no chance that I could get into a grad program anywhere else.

<-- EE major
Click to expand...


People falling under your category 3 were the #1 reason I hated engineering.... wayyyyyy too many people could ace the theory classes, but could not apply the knowledge... It's amazing that someone can say "CH4 + 2 O2 -> CO2 + 2 H2O + heat, but then think in lab that methane is an inflammable gas.
It's not creativity they lack, but common sense and the ability to apply what they "know."
 
Originally posted by: dullard
Tests without enough time are there for one reason, and one reason only. To separate those who know the material from those who know the material well.
It appears that you know the material fully, but you don't know it well. What is the difference? A few hours doing problems. Most people in your situation listen in class, take good notes, study hard, and get a B on the exam as they are rushed for time. Those who ace the exams will listen in class, take good notes, study hard, DO PRACTICE PROBLEMS IN ADDITION TO THE HOMEWORK, and get an A on the exam turning it in a few minutes before the bell.
But yes, grades can also be overrated.
Click to expand...
Which all comes back to my point about how grades are dependent on things like your finals schedule and your workload. Many students don't have time to do additional problems because of their workload.

I had 5 finals this semester, and I had 2 of them in the same day on two occasions. Regardless of studying patterns and how much work I do, it's difficult to keep in head formulas for two exams in a day than it is to have them on separate days. Also, finals are mentally exhausting; writing six hours of finals in one day is never easy. Now, finals are required to count for at least 50% of our grade, so there's a good chance that my term GPA will be slightly lower only because of scheduling.

Meh, maybe I'm just bitter.

As a side note, LordMorpheus, how the heck do you have a GPA higher than 4? Aren't GPAs all measured on a 4 point scale?
 
I'm in the process of applying to grad school, just finished my app to UWashington for MCB. The best advice I can give you is get involved in the subject that you want to go into. There is no reason for a professor to admit you if you have nothing to show them to reflect your potential as a grad student. Grades are definitely not everything, but keep in mind that your GPA should be competitive. You are still a freshmen so you have plenty of time to recover, best of luck.
 
I think some of the information here is wrong. A lot of people have been stressing the research component of grad school. This is not true. Not all masters programs will have a research component. Honestly, I don't think it matters at all whether or not you do research to get into a masters program. For a doctoral program, then it does matter.
 
Originally posted by: cerebusPu
Im asking the same question myself. i had a dismal GPA when i graduated college 3 years ago. now Ive been working at a research group for 3 years, authored or coauthored 10+ papers, and do phd quality work. but Im still afraid to apply to graduate school because of my dismal gpa.

Im going to have to score well on the GRE and write a good personal statement explaining why i did so poorly and why iwont do it again. not sure what else i can do.
Click to expand...

It might not be that difficult if you follow the research route. Do you know professors that work in your field?(do you want to continue work in it?) If so, contact them before applying and start hunting around for open RA positions. Then after you have an agreement with one of them work on admissions.

I only had a 3.1 GPA as an undergrad, but got into my MS that way and hit a 3.2, now I'm on a PhD program with only the thesis left and at a 4.0 and have one several national awards for my research at both the MS and PhD level.(in addition to a slew of published refereed papers)

So the grades are not everything. The grades will come as you gain more knowledge and insight into the material, and most professors understand this.(in fact, as an example, I had a thermo professor tell me that you really need to take Thermo/Kinetics about 3 times before you really have a good grasp of it, in a class were the average score was about 30% which was curved to an A)
 
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