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How fast will the radeon 5770 be upon release?

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bunnyfubbles

Lifer
Sep 3, 2001
12,248
3
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Originally posted by: Crisium
I'm guessing 5750 will be slightly faster than 4850 but slower than 4870. Then the 5770 will probably be about equal to 4870, perhaps better depending on it's exact specs. But I cannot see 4890 performance with 128-bit at 1120SP.
if they're not going to be faster there would be little reason to give them so many more SPs and TMUs

IF the bandwidth is a severe limitation, it still wouldn't call for a sweeping judgement like that. I'd still be confident in the 5700s being at least equal if not slightly faster across the board on resolutions of 1680x1050 or smaller (especially on newer games). The key resolution will be 1920x1080 though. I think that is going to be a common resolution for new buyers and ATI might have shot themselves in the foot a bit here. Although, the % increase in memory bandwidth from the 4850 to the 5700s is roughly equal to that of the % increase in pixels of 1680x1050 to 1920x1080. Its also possible the memory controller has been improved and is more efficient with the bandwidth, so I wouldn't be surprised if the 5700s were faster across the board at that resolution.

again, this assuming current rumored specs and pricing
 

cbn

Lifer
Mar 27, 2009
12,968
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Originally posted by: bunnyfubbles
Originally posted by: Crisium
I'm guessing 5750 will be slightly faster than 4850 but slower than 4870. Then the 5770 will probably be about equal to 4870, perhaps better depending on it's exact specs. But I cannot see 4890 performance with 128-bit at 1120SP.
if they're not going to be faster there would be little reason to give them so many more SPs and TMUs
It could be ATI is waiting for the 7 Gbps DDR5 memory chips. This would be a 40% improvement over the 5 Gbps DDR5 chips being used now.

If this is true then ATI will be nicely positioned against Nvidia's midrange offering when they are released.

1120 stream processors on a 180mm2 die + 7 Gbps DDR5 would be a very tight efficient package.

Maybe call this 7 Gbps memory Juniper "HD5790"????
 

toyota

Lifer
Apr 15, 2001
12,957
1
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Originally posted by: Just learning
Originally posted by: bunnyfubbles
Originally posted by: Crisium
I'm guessing 5750 will be slightly faster than 4850 but slower than 4870. Then the 5770 will probably be about equal to 4870, perhaps better depending on it's exact specs. But I cannot see 4890 performance with 128-bit at 1120SP.
if they're not going to be faster there would be little reason to give them so many more SPs and TMUs
It could be ATI is waiting for the 7 Gbps DDR5 memory chips. This would be a 40% improvement over the 5 Gbps DDR5 chips being used now.

If this is true then ATI will be nicely positioned against Nvidia's midrange offering when they are released.

1120 stream processors on a 180mm2 die + 7 Gbps DDR5 would be a very tight efficient package.

Maybe call this 7 Gbps memory Juniper "HD5790"????
not happening in that price range. ATI didnt even fool with most expensive current gddr5 on any cards so far.
 

cbn

Lifer
Mar 27, 2009
12,968
221
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Originally posted by: toyota
Originally posted by: Just learning
Originally posted by: bunnyfubbles
Originally posted by: Crisium
I'm guessing 5750 will be slightly faster than 4850 but slower than 4870. Then the 5770 will probably be about equal to 4870, perhaps better depending on it's exact specs. But I cannot see 4890 performance with 128-bit at 1120SP.
if they're not going to be faster there would be little reason to give them so many more SPs and TMUs
It could be ATI is waiting for the 7 Gbps DDR5 memory chips. This would be a 40% improvement over the 5 Gbps DDR5 chips being used now.

If this is true then ATI will be nicely positioned against Nvidia's midrange offering when they are released.

1120 stream processors on a 180mm2 die + 7 Gbps DDR5 would be a very tight efficient package.

Maybe call this 7 Gbps memory Juniper "HD5790"????
not happening in that price range. ATI didnt even fool with most expensive current gddr5 on any cards so far.
Yeah but eventually the price on those ICs will drop. Hopefully by Spring 2010 we will see a refresh that will be able to take full advantage of those 1120 stream processors?

Or maybe I will be suprised by the reviews of HD5750/HD5770 when the NDA is lifted next week?
 

bunnyfubbles

Lifer
Sep 3, 2001
12,248
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I think some people are really underestimating the potential for improvements in efficiency of the GPU and memory controller, go back and look at some reviews of the 4670 vs. the 3800s. The GPUs are similar (SPs the same, TMUs are doubled on the 4670 but the ROPs are halved) but the memory bandwidth is vastly in favor of the 3800s - 128bit vs. 256bit, both DDR3/GDDR3 or faster, the 3870 generally having faster GDDR3, so that means the 4670 had a GPU that wasn't more powerful in terms of brute force given and was given less than half the memory bandwidth but it regularly places between the 3850 and 3870. Here the 5700s not only have a clearly superior GPU, the memory bandwidth situation isn't nearly as bad (more like 2/3 rather than less than half).

I could very well be wrong but I'm not sure there's been much evidence to have so much doubt. At worst, the specs we're hearing about just aren't suggesting one of the best price/performance parts ever, that doesn't mean it won't be good.

That being said, the good news we can take away from the current rumors is that the 5750 might be the card to get of the 5700s if the sole difference is clockrate (especially if that difference can be made up with overclocking) also the 5850 retains a lot of its own value, making it a safe buy, especially for those with larger monitors and/or those considering triple monitor setups.


Originally posted by: Just learning
Originally posted by: bunnyfubbles
Originally posted by: Crisium
I'm guessing 5750 will be slightly faster than 4850 but slower than 4870. Then the 5770 will probably be about equal to 4870, perhaps better depending on it's exact specs. But I cannot see 4890 performance with 128-bit at 1120SP.
if they're not going to be faster there would be little reason to give them so many more SPs and TMUs
It could be ATI is waiting for the 7 Gbps DDR5 memory chips. This would be a 40% improvement over the 5 Gbps DDR5 chips being used now.

If this is true then ATI will be nicely positioned against Nvidia's midrange offering when they are released.

1120 stream processors on a 180mm2 die + 7 Gbps DDR5 would be a very tight efficient package.

Maybe call this 7 Gbps memory Juniper "HD5790"????
My comment that you're replying to is assuming price points of $150 and $200. If these cards cant at least match a 4870 and 4890 respective, there's really no point in having them, certainly not at those prices. They'd have been better off with an 800-960SP set at lower prices.
 

cbn

Lifer
Mar 27, 2009
12,968
221
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Originally posted by: bunnyfubbles


My comment that you're replying to is assuming price points of $150 and $200. If these cards cant at least match a 4870 and 4890 respective, there's really no point in having them, certainly not at those prices. They'd have been better off with an 800-960SP set at lower prices.
I am hopeful for these HD57xx reviews but at the same time I am having a hard time believing these 180mm2 GPUs will come anywhere close to delivering the value of the 334mm2 HD5850.

180mm2 GPU for $199?

or

334mm2 Gpu (with 10% shaders disabled) for $259

Seems like a no brainer to me.........unless ATI designed these 180mm2 chips with 7 Gbps memory in mind.
 

cbn

Lifer
Mar 27, 2009
12,968
221
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Originally posted by: bunnyfubbles


That being said, the good news we can take away from the current rumors is that the 5750 might be the card to get
That sounds right to me.


These reviews next week should be interesting.
 

bunnyfubbles

Lifer
Sep 3, 2001
12,248
3
0
Originally posted by: Tempered81
the prices are 109-119 for 5750 and 149 for 5770, also 800 SP ;)
That would make more sense, although I would have rather had that with the 5600s and had the 5700s somewhere in between.
 

nemesismk2

Diamond Member
Sep 29, 2001
4,810
5
76
www.ultimatehardware.net
Originally posted by: bunnyfubbles
Originally posted by: nemesismk2
Although I would love to get 4890 level performance out of the 5770 I voted for 4870 level because it's more realistic.
If that is the case, I hope the 5770 isn't priced @ $199, 1GB 4870s can be had for ~$150 before rebates.
Me too. $199 would be too expensive but right now ATI don't have any competition help keep prices low. :(
 

cbn

Lifer
Mar 27, 2009
12,968
221
106
Originally posted by: nemesismk2
Originally posted by: bunnyfubbles
Originally posted by: nemesismk2
Although I would love to get 4890 level performance out of the 5770 I voted for 4870 level because it's more realistic.
If that is the case, I hope the 5770 isn't priced @ $199, 1GB 4870s can be had for ~$150 before rebates.
Me too. $199 would be too expensive but right now ATI don't have any competition help keep prices low. :(
I hope Nvidia brings some competition to the midrange because all I have been reading about is this Gigantic Fermi chip. Cut-down versions of this will only go so far right?

Whereas ATI could have a tiny 180mm2 1120 stream processor/128-bit/ 7 Gbps DDR5 waiting for them.
 

bunnyfubbles

Lifer
Sep 3, 2001
12,248
3
0
rumored specs of these 5700s are changing by the day (if not hourly) now :p

currently I think we're looking at the 5770 topping out at 850MHz GPU, 800SPs 40TMUs 16ROPs, 1200MHz RAM, although still with 128bit bus (which with 1200MHz GDDR5 would give us 76.8GB/sec of memory bandwidth). Also supposedly priced @ $159

if that's the case then its definitely slower than a 4890, probably faster than the 4870 in non bandwidth limited situations. Basically not much of a reason for 4800 owners (I would include the 4850 as well) to upgrade to anything less than a 5850 if true.
 

v8envy

Platinum Member
Sep 7, 2002
2,720
0
0
To recap, a performance equivalent of the 4770/4850, but using less power than the 4850 and with DX11. Will be the card to get once it's at $80 or so AR. Wouldn't be surprised to see Sapphire offer a 5770x2 for around $200 either -- should benchmark higher than a 5850.
 

bunnyfubbles

Lifer
Sep 3, 2001
12,248
3
0
the 5770 outclasses a 4850 and certainly a 4770 in every single way possible. With these most recent specs we'd have 850MHz vs. 625MHz GPU and 76.8GB/sec vs. 63.55GB/sec memory bandwidth, everything else being the same or worse (I suppose still possible the 5770 could have a 256bit bus, if that happens it would definitely be better than a 4890, although this is very unlikely as it would have memory bandwidth identical to a 5870 :p). That being said, its definitely not an equivalent at all (to a 4770/4850), its clearly superior. The real question is how much the efficiencies of the GPU and memory controller has improved. The 4770 really is pretty on par with the 4850 despite having less parts (made up for some by higher clock rate) and lower bandwidth. That being said the 5770 should still be faster than a 4870 on middling resolutions and no AA (although it might still keep up with some AA when considering any improvements in efficiency)
 

Stoneburner

Diamond Member
May 29, 2003
3,491
0
76
Where does it say 800sp? Performance equivalent of a 4770 despite double the processing power? It should be 60 to 80 percent faster than the 4770.... it better be :(
 

toyota

Lifer
Apr 15, 2001
12,957
1
0
Originally posted by: Stoneburner
Where does it say 800sp? Performance equivalent of a 4770 despite double the processing power? It should be 60 to 80 percent faster than the 4770.... it better be :(
no way will it be 80% faster than a 4770. heck a 5850 is not even 80% faster than a 4770 in many cases. well at 1920 with AA and 2560 the 5850 is probably 80% faster or more though because the 4770 only had 512mb and much lower bandwidth.
 

bunnyfubbles

Lifer
Sep 3, 2001
12,248
3
0
Originally posted by: Stoneburner
Where does it say 800sp? Performance equivalent of a 4770 despite double the processing power? It should be 60 to 80 percent faster than the 4770.... it better be :(
there's an official looking slide floating around that shows the 5770 with a GPU with specs looking identical to the 4890 but with 1200MHz GDDR5, although we still think the bus will be 128bit so that would make it worse than a 4890.
 

lopri

Elite Member
Jul 27, 2002
12,842
325
126
Holy kangaroo! I should hurry up and sell my 4890 on eBay.
 

LCD123

Member
Sep 29, 2009
90
0
0

I didn't think the rumors of 1120sp was accurate. I had said 800-960 and I was correct. With only 800sp and 128 bit memory, there is NO WAY the 5770 will touch a hd4870. I am not even sure it can touch a hd4850 either. I therefore stand by my vote that it can at least match the hd4830, well it may be slightly faster than hd4830 and hd4770, but that's as far as my prediction goes. The price of $159 is because of the dx11 premium and supporting the "latest and greatest" features.

The hd5750 due to less shaders and lower clocks may lose to the hd4830 and hd4770, however it should outperform the hd4750 and hd3870. But for around $119, it's a fairly cheap dx11 card. If you don't need dx11, grab a used hd4830 or hd4850 for cheap!

Don't sell your hd48x0 too cheap or you will be sorry unless you plan to upgrade to hd58x0. Anything less is a sidegrade or downgrade!
 

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