How far will the 32 nm. Intel chips go gigahertz wise?

techs

Lifer
Sep 26, 2000
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I was just wondering how high Intel will ramp up its new 32nm. i-series processors speed wise. I read that many people are getting close to 4ghz, and more on the current models.

Will we see stock 4 Ghz speeds by the end of the year? Or by the end of the 32nm life cycle?
 

Spikesoldier

Diamond Member
Oct 15, 2001
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i got 4.2 no problem first try.

id be willing to bet all of intels 32nm clarkdales will do 4.0 in its sleep. i think intel has done more agressive binning on the clarkdales though, there are now two things that are binned: the IGP and the cores themselves.

the 32nm hex cores, you got to remember that we have learned in these monolithic cpu architectures (and fermi) now that one bad apple out of the bunch (a six pack in this case) can spoil what would otherwise be a great clocking cpu. intel seems to have a stance on not rolling out cpu's with disabled cores that can be unlocked.
 
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Ben90

Platinum Member
Jun 14, 2009
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Gulftown seems to max out similar to Bloomfield. Clarksdale has an upper end of around 4.6ish.
 

LoneNinja

Senior member
Jan 5, 2009
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Sadly it's not much further than 45nm went, it's still in the 4.0Ghz-4.5Ghz range on most chips. It seems to be voltage limit rather than a heat limit, since higher volts have been killing clarksdale.
 

Voo

Golden Member
Feb 27, 2009
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Power density for CPUs is already so high that we just won't see much higher frequencies anymore.

The VLSI limit for power density is put around 100W/cm^2 (that's equivalent to a nuclear reactor) and since the 90s Intel has approached that target with an astounishing speed. There's a reason why we get more and more cores and not higher frequencies..
 

BeatCrazy

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Feb 21, 2010
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Power density for CPUs is already so high that we just won't see much higher frequencies anymore.

The VLSI limit for power density is put around 100W/cm^2 (that's equivalent to a nuclear reactor) and since the 90s Intel has approached that target with an astounishing speed. There's a reason why we get more and more cores and not higher frequencies..

Can you expand upon this, or break it down in dummy language? Is it power 'density' or just voltage limitations? How are these guys getting 5Ghz+ out of some CPUs besides tremendous cooling?
 

Drenlin

Junior Member
Feb 26, 2010
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The i3 models can hit close to 5GHz on a good water setup, if I remember correctly. I'm assuming this is partially because they lack turbo boost...?
 

alyarb

Platinum Member
Jan 25, 2009
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Can you expand upon this, or break it down in dummy language? Is it power 'density' or just voltage limitations? How are these guys getting 5Ghz+ out of some CPUs besides tremendous cooling?


VLSI means very large scale integration, and in dummy language it basically describes the class of manufacturing our CPUs belong to: close to a billion tiny adjacent transistors. technically even more than a billion since we're talking 32nm.

you will never have all of these transistors operating at insane frequencies simultaneously, but the concept of turbo mode is going to become increasingly finer-grained to the point where you will see all the resources you need at high frequencies, but not the entire chip. the voltage required to have over a billion ~32nm transistors running at 4.5+ GHz is probably perfectly safe for most specimens and when the time comes the overclocking community will manage it, but the resistive heating due to the increased current would still produce more heat than intel is willing to deal with because they have to come up with a free heatsink to give you and it's going to be a piece of shit. as a conductor warms, the additional heat-per-amp dissipated increases quadratically* with temp, which is why 5.5 GHz is impossible to do at 70 degrees but perfectly fine at 10 degrees. is intel going to buy you a cooling system that does that? heh they should for what the extreme editions cost. but whatever, it makes high frequencies seem more alluring to us.


sandy bridge turbo modes will definitely be breaking into the 4 ghz region but probably only one physical core (the 1155 variant only goes up to 3.8 on one core; expect the larger brothers to surpass that) out of a 80-130 watt chip, which is totally safe. i'd even say it's on the pussy side of safe. just like the D0 i7's, there will be plenty of users breaking into 4+ GHz on the stock cooler, we'll just have to wait and see. in regard to future architectures, as turbo evolves into intra-core clock adjustment capability, we will hopefully start to see higher frequency ALU/FPU, cache, and MCH capability with perhaps lower-frequency decode and thread scheduling in the future. certainly not next year, but in the future you can expect more and more components to be compartmentalized into clock domains so that the dissipative power budget of the processor can be economized. hopefully AMD is realizing this opportunity with Bulldozer given the intra-core modularity and reputation for high TDP. AMD and intel will certainly use discrete domains on their IGPs and PCIe controllers if they are to be brought into the uncore.

*keeping it simple for the sake of discussion. the heat energy crosses numerous molecular boundaries and forming a remotely accurate mathematical generalization becomes tiresome. if you really want to know you can just read about each transfer mechanism individually.
 
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sxr7171

Diamond Member
Jun 21, 2002
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Power density for CPUs is already so high that we just won't see much higher frequencies anymore.

The VLSI limit for power density is put around 100W/cm^2 (that's equivalent to a nuclear reactor) and since the 90s Intel has approached that target with an astounishing speed. There's a reason why we get more and more cores and not higher frequencies..

Which is why we need to be begging software developers to make their programs run on multiple cores. Right now it seems only games and encoding/transcoding does that.
 

Mr. Pedantic

Diamond Member
Feb 14, 2010
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Which is why we need to be begging software developers to make their programs run on multiple cores. Right now it seems only games and encoding/transcoding does that
Do you really need a web browser that uses multi-core optimizations? Or a music player? IM client? They already run fast enough on single cores that multi-core optimizations are a waste of time and a waste of space. The only programs I could see a definite use for multi-core support are database programs and Office, for things like Monte Carlo. Most rendering programs already have multi-core support, as well as Photoshop CS. What else do you use without multithreading support would absolutely benefit from using 2 or more threads instead of only one?
 
Dec 30, 2004
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Do you really need a web browser that uses multi-core optimizations? Or a music player? IM client? They already run fast enough on single cores that multi-core optimizations are a waste of time and a waste of space. The only programs I could see a definite use for multi-core support are database programs and Office, for things like Monte Carlo. Most rendering programs already have multi-core support, as well as Photoshop CS. What else do you use without multithreading support would absolutely benefit from using 2 or more threads instead of only one?

office most definitely is not in need of multicore. I'd say web browsers should be multi-core optimized. I have 15 tabs open for my "home page" and my entire browser slows down to a crawl for about 10 seconds while it renders. Chrome goes much faster since it pegs all my cores.
 

Narmer

Diamond Member
Aug 27, 2006
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Do operating systems utilize multicore efficiently? If one program is hogging a core, do the others get more usage? I ask because I have a quadcore with 64-bit W7 Pro and I still get slowdowns sometimes. FWIW, I also have 4GB of system memory and 512MB of nvidia VRAM.
 

beginner99

Diamond Member
Jun 2, 2009
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Do operating systems utilize multicore efficiently? If one program is hogging a core, do the others get more usage? I ask because I have a quadcore with 64-bit W7 Pro and I still get slowdowns sometimes. FWIW, I also have 4GB of system memory and 512MB of nvidia VRAM.

Probably HDD related. -> buy an ssd if you don't have one already.

On topic:

waiting for a 32 nm Xeon Review.

Will there be one?
 

sxr7171

Diamond Member
Jun 21, 2002
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Do you really need a web browser that uses multi-core optimizations? Or a music player? IM client? They already run fast enough on single cores that multi-core optimizations are a waste of time and a waste of space. The only programs I could see a definite use for multi-core support are database programs and Office, for things like Monte Carlo. Most rendering programs already have multi-core support, as well as Photoshop CS. What else do you use without multithreading support would absolutely benefit from using 2 or more threads instead of only one?

These programs get more and more intensive and bloated as time goes by and so does the OS. I don't care what they say about Windows 7, I know XP runs faster and uses less resources. It is true that rarely can I get anything to peg a single core to 100% these days but there are some programs that do for about 2 seconds. They will respond faster and faster is always better. It's what progress in personal computing has always been predicated on. Nobody would upgrade anymore if their next PC is the same speed as their last PC.

Also when I go into task manager and check my CPU time number one is Firefox with 1:53 of CPU time (uptime = 27 hours). So a browser does run some CPU cycles for sure and despite how "fast" our processors are for browsing I see browser benchmarks all the time. In fact I believe both Gizmodo and Engadget ran a whole slew of recent browser benchmarks. There are differences, and I can find sites which will cause my browser to slow down. The internet also is becoming an intensive environment with javascript, flash and next HTML and native video rendering. So in short it does matter. Otherwise I could be using my current machine for 10 years since all I really do 99% of the time is use the browser.

I also use a program called Squeezecenter which does peg my CPU at 100% for 2 full seconds while it generates an HTML page. I would pay to make that faster. I've done all I can by putting it on a RAMDisk and the CPU is the bottleneck. Also rendering those pages causes whatever browser I am using to hit 100% CPU as well. I have 6GB RAM and everything is running on an Intel G2 SSD. So again that is a CPU bottleneck. Am I being particularly whiny about response times? Yes. But if I wasn't then I wouldn't be an enthusiast. Our demands drive progress in personal computing.
 
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aigomorla

CPU, Cases&Cooling Mod PC Gaming Mod Elite Member
Super Moderator
Sep 28, 2005
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gulftown scales like a mother.

problem is the chip is fragile, and i have many verifications on how fragile it is.

I heard the B0 stepping are tanks, but the A0 are swarovski crystal figurines.
Very brittle, and not able to handle high voltages for prolong periods of times.

But i have yet to see a gulftown NOT scale upwards past 1.55vcore.

They are monsters, but very delicate.
B1's would fall between the leaky B0's and A0's.
There not tanks, but there not crystal either.
 

Shmee

Memory & Storage, Graphics Cards Mod Elite Member
Super Moderator
Sep 13, 2008
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how is up to 1.45 Vcore on a B1? Would it be too much? I currently have 1.43 in bios, but vdroop goes to just under 1.4 V. 1.392 I believe.
 

aigomorla

CPU, Cases&Cooling Mod PC Gaming Mod Elite Member
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Sep 28, 2005
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dunno shmee.. i told myself i wouldnt pop this one.

im at 1.388 @ 4.4

yes my chip is a monster, and i think its even greater then anand's chip.
 

IntelUser2000

Elite Member
Oct 14, 2003
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*snip*

Yes. But if I wasn't then I wouldn't be an enthusiast. Our demands drive progress in personal computing.

This is interesting. Thanks for that post. Yes, I noticed even general usage like web browsing was more responsive on the i5-661 than on the C2D E6600 and that's both with the X25-M G1.

I was just wondering how high Intel will ramp up its new 32nm. i-series processors speed wise. I read that many people are getting close to 4ghz, and more on the current models.

Will we see stock 4 Ghz speeds by the end of the year? Or by the end of the 32nm life cycle?

Intel specifically estimates ~8% clock speed increases per year. Considering we had 2.93GHz X6800 by end of 2006 and we have 3.60GHz using Turbo Mode frequency on the i5-670, they seem spot on.

Of course on the retail release, they'll also be thermal bound, and people also respect reliability. I don't think we'll see much more out of Westmere this year. There's a plan for i5-680 with 3.60GHz base clock, so that'll end up the fastest.

Nehalem itself is circuitry bound for reaching higher frequency(they are sacrificing clock speed for something else here), and Westmere doesn't do a whole lot to lift that. The 32nm SRAM circuitry reaches 3.8GHz in the lab @ 1.1V, but that is very simple compared to the actual processing logic on the CPU.

I believe they'll hit 4GHz with Sandy Bridge, but they won't do that initially, and only hit with 1 core using Turbo Mode. Just like we see slight speed bumps now, we might see 3.86GHz Turbo frequency with a 4GHz later on.