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How far can you really go between oil changes (using conventional oil)

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Throckmorton

Lifer
Aug 23, 2007
16,829
3
0
He installed them <6k after new, if you bothered to read the first two sentences in his first post in his BobIsTheOilGuy thread. I can only surmise that the 25k mile number was rectal-plucked on your part.

"On 5/30/04, I installed an Amsoil BMK-13 Dual Remote Bypass Filter and a prelube pump on my ’03 Honda S2000. I did a great deal of research on oil filtration systems before I came up with this setup. My car had 5,997 miles when I installed it."

It would seem he's burning oil at less than 1/3 the rate of a typical S2K, if the 1qt/1,000mile number is accurate and he is indeed only adding 1qt every 3,500 miles.

So, one should conlcude from this information that his setup of prelube pump, oil filters, and selection of AMSoil 0W30 is a very good one.

Can you please link to where BobIsTheOilGuy states and proves that 90% of wear occurs at start-up?

First of all, 6k instead of 25k would support my opinion that the engine should be in BETTER shape than it is. Do you lack common sense or something? Second of all, I didn't "rectal pluck" the number, I just misremembered from when I read the thread last night.

How in the hell am I supposed to know that a modern Honda engine, presumably one of these new super engines that can go a bazillion miles on an oil change, burns 1 qt of oil every 1000 miles? Honda says 7500 miles OCI... so at that point you're at what, -3 quarts?


I don't know how BITOG knows 90% of wear happens at start up but that makes sense... That's when the engine has the least lubrication.
 

JCH13

Diamond Member
Sep 14, 2010
4,981
66
91
First of all, 6k instead of 25k would support my opinion that the engine should be in BETTER shape than it is. Do you lack common sense or something? Second of all, I didn't "rectal pluck" the number, I just misremembered from when I read the thread last night.

How in the hell am I supposed to know that a modern Honda engine, presumably one of these new super engines that can go a bazillion miles on an oil change, burns 1 qt of oil every 1000 miles? Honda says 7500 miles OCI... so at that point you're at what, -3 quarts?


I don't know how BITOG knows 90% of wear happens at start up but that makes sense... That's when the engine has the least lubrication.

I'm just asking you to think a little and get a few facts before you have spastic reaction about something that you don't feel is "correct" or "right."

I never argued that you were incorrect, merely asked what you knew and if there was any proof to corroborate your statements. You even had time to look up when the pump and filter setup was installed, but didn't. Nor did you find and proof that start-up is a significant portion of car wear.

This is how you can tell that S2Ks can burn quite a bit of oil.

Just because a conclusion "makes sense" upon cursory examination does not mean that it is correct.

After start-up there is the smallest possible amount of load on the engine at very low speeds. Do you know that the residual oil film on the rotating components isn't enough to adequately protect the engine's bearing surfaces from accelerated wear for the few seconds (or less than a second) that there is little or no oil pressure? Does anyone on BITOG?

As far as I can tell the "90% of wear happens at start-up" statement is an assumption one person made that many other people have perpetuated. I will remain skeptical of it's validity until there is some solid testing to prove that it is correct.
 

Midwayman

Diamond Member
Jan 28, 2000
5,723
325
126
I know that people who have sent off dino oil after 5-6k miles usually get reports that the oil is fine. I think more often you get the problem that people are using really cheap filters and they clog up before the oil goes bad. I just change it when the computer tells me. Normally 5-6k miles.
 

Throckmorton

Lifer
Aug 23, 2007
16,829
3
0
I'm just asking you to think a little and get a few facts before you have spastic reaction about something that you don't feel is "correct" or "right."

I never argued that you were incorrect, merely asked what you knew and if there was any proof to corroborate your statements. You even had time to look up when the pump and filter setup was installed, but didn't. Nor did you find and proof that start-up is a significant portion of car wear.

This is how you can tell that S2Ks can burn quite a bit of oil.

Just because a conclusion "makes sense" upon cursory examination does not mean that it is correct.

After start-up there is the smallest possible amount of load on the engine at very low speeds. Do you know that the residual oil film on the rotating components isn't enough to adequately protect the engine's bearing surfaces from accelerated wear for the few seconds (or less than a second) that there is little or no oil pressure? Does anyone on BITOG?

As far as I can tell the "90% of wear happens at start-up" statement is an assumption one person made that many other people have perpetuated. I will remain skeptical of it's validity until there is some solid testing to prove that it is correct.


I'm at work. I can't constantly browse websites and read multiple forums. I'd rather go by what I remember from reading last night than look like I'm wasting time.

The film of oil being inadequate supports the conclusion that the vast majority of wear is at startup. So what if it's 88.75% and not 90%? It seems like it should be more like 95% or 99%. It's not just the time until oil starts flowing but also all the time that oil is cold. BTW I used to think a thicker W weight was better at warmer temps because more oil stays stuck to the metal overnight, but BITOG convinced me otherwise by saying exactly what you said, that the film isn't enough to matter.
 
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LTC8K6

Lifer
Mar 10, 2004
28,520
1,576
126
Chrysler says 1qt/2K miles for under 50K and 1qt in 750 miles for over 50K as acceptable.

You are supposed to keep the oil topped up.

So if you have a 6,000 mile recommended OCI, I guess you could indeed have to add a lot of oil between changes.
 

MagickMan

Diamond Member
Aug 11, 2008
7,460
3
76
I change according to the manufacturer specs, which varies from car to car.
 

railer

Golden Member
Apr 15, 2000
1,552
69
91
I change according to the manufacturer specs, which varies from car to car.

pffft. Anybody can do that......

As I've already mentioned in one of these seemingly weekly oil change conspiracy threads, I like to err on the side of caution and change my oil every 100 miles. (you know....to be safe). What I have not previously disclosed is that I perform these oil changes only after slipping my wife 3 -5 Tylenol PM's, at which point I use her Kitchen Aide 10 quart slow cooker to heat my fresh oil up to 182F (that's 356.48K), which not surprisingly is the exact temperature that BITOG has decided is best for changing oil. I drain out the old 182F (356.48K) oil, and pour in the new 182F(356.48K) new oil, using a clean funnel. I then wipe out the Kitchen Aide slow cooker with a FOTL 2XL 100% cotton tee shirt that I keep in the 3rd drawer of my Craftsman rolling toolbox. I use the slow cooker to heat the oil up to temperature over a period of 3 hours, as I don't want impart any type of heat fatigue onto the oil, which could happen if I were to use gas heat and a frying pan, as some may foolishly advise. I then install a new Fram filter and am good to go for another 100 miles.
 
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railer

Golden Member
Apr 15, 2000
1,552
69
91
Craftsman rolling toolbox? You need to buy Snap On.

Of course I do, however my nearest Snap-On location is 80 miles away, so I really have no way to safely get there an back without my engine assploding due to bad oil. Think before you post next time.
 

waterjug

Senior member
Jan 21, 2012
930
0
76
...here's my take on conventional oil:

If you drive 10k miles or fewer per year, you're probably doing a lot of city driving, so the engine would benefit from a 2x year OCI...3x/year if a lot less than 10k...

If you drive as much as 15k miles a year then you're likely running a decent amount of highway miles, so changing oil 3x yearly would be a reasonable 5k mile OCI...20k miles/year would benefit from an OCI with the changing seasons.

You know your driving habits, but an OCI of 3.5k-5k miles will be just fine....

...now don't forget all the other fluids...coolant, brake, power steering and transmission fluids...change them every 3 years/40k miles, regardless of their "lifetime" formula characterization.



Yeah I drive about 8K per year. I live in the city, but about 1/2 my miles come in the summer on highway road trips. I usually change the oil before summer, and then before winter hits.
 

kitatech

Senior member
Jan 7, 2013
484
3
81
Yeah I drive about 8K per year. I live in the city, but about 1/2 my miles come in the summer on highway road trips. I usually change the oil before summer, and then before winter hits.

Yes...Simple...so many people overthink this....

Conventional oil is perfect(ly fine) for your driving and OCI...only better option might be a once a year OCI with synthetics and do an 8k-mile OCI with (arguably) better chemistry...but...

....since you can typically get a conventional OC for $20 at a dealer, a syn OC is only cost-effective it if you buy synthetic on sale, (as little as $10 for a 5qt jug after rebate), and either change oil yourself or have the dealer do it (many will change YOUR oil and YOUR filter for $20 labor)...

Hope you enjoyed the 4 pages of replies though....
 

Jimzz

Diamond Member
Oct 23, 2012
4,399
190
106
^

Yea I agree, Syn oil once a year may work better if you don't have any major oil usage/leak issues in his case. Even then its good to check your fluids often. Never know when one will start to have issues.

I do 5k or once a year in my truck as I doubt I will hit 5k. So regular oil for me.
 

mvbighead

Diamond Member
Apr 20, 2009
3,793
1
81
pffft. Anybody can do that......

As I've already mentioned in one of these seemingly weekly oil change conspiracy threads, I like to err on the side of caution and change my oil every 100 miles. (you know....to be safe). What I have not previously disclosed is that I perform these oil changes only after slipping my wife 3 -5 Tylenol PM's, at which point I use her Kitchen Aide 10 quart slow cooker to heat my fresh oil up to 182F (that's 356.48K), which not surprisingly is the exact temperature that BITOG has decided is best for changing oil. I drain out the old 182F (356.48K) oil, and pour in the new 182F(356.48K) new oil, using a clean funnel. I then wipe out the Kitchen Aide slow cooker with a FOTL 2XL 100% cotton tee shirt that I keep in the 3rd drawer of my Craftsman rolling toolbox. I use the slow cooker to heat the oil up to temperature over a period of 3 hours, as I don't want impart any type of heat fatigue onto the oil, which could happen if I were to use gas heat and a frying pan, as some may foolishly advise. I then install a new Fram filter and am good to go for another 100 miles.

That's some funny stuff right there.

Long story short, is that the RTFM (read the friggin manual) comments basically are suggesting the cookie cutter approach to vehicles. IE - Every driver is the same, every driving condition is the same, every thing for everyone is the same.

The consensus from many individuals on the Internet and elsewhere (and I have seen enough information from many of the posters on here to determine they are in fact real people and not just 15 year old jack asses blowing smoke) is that many conditions are different.

For the common person, following the OLM or manual is a solid approach. They drive their car like 90% of the rest of the world. The difference, however, is there are many who have odd or less than usual driving habits that may impact their oil usage differently.

I know people who drive 5-10 miles to work, and 5-10 miles back, every day, on city streets with a lot of stop and go. I myself drive upwards of 30-35, mostly highway, with an average speed of 60 mph. If we each owned the same model vehicle and the manual told us that we should change our oil after 5000 miles, it would be applying one general assumption to two completely different scenarios. Take that a step further and add another driver who takes his car out to the track.

End point being, my 5000 miles differs from my buddies, which all differ from the guy who takes the same vehicle to the track. I would guess, from these scenarios something along the lines of the following:

1) Guy who takes his car to the track and pushes his car quite a bit could be best served with 3000 miles (max) intervals using synthetic oil and a good filter depending on how hard he pushes his car.

2) City driver guy could probably do 5000 miles easily with conventional and a standard filter.

3) Long commuter could probably extend his interval to 7500 miles or better with quality oil and filter.

Also, a used oil analysis would probably give each a very different report on what they should be doing after 5000 miles.

End point being, while RTFM is a cute way of saying just do what you're told, the reality is, there are many different driving styles that could potentially under or over use the oil in their vehicles and risk additional wear or waste by following the RTFM approach. If people want to invest the time and effort in getting a UOA done from time to time to make sure their engine is adequately protected, why not?

Clearly the guys doing the UOA can get specifics out of the oil they receive to give the end user a guide line of how they can maximize the protection of their engine without over or under servicing.
 

Throckmorton

Lifer
Aug 23, 2007
16,829
3
0
pffft. Anybody can do that......

As I've already mentioned in one of these seemingly weekly oil change conspiracy threads, I like to err on the side of caution and change my oil every 100 miles. (you know....to be safe). What I have not previously disclosed is that I perform these oil changes only after slipping my wife 3 -5 Tylenol PM's, at which point I use her Kitchen Aide 10 quart slow cooker to heat my fresh oil up to 182F (that's 356.48K), which not surprisingly is the exact temperature that BITOG has decided is best for changing oil. I drain out the old 182F (356.48K) oil, and pour in the new 182F(356.48K) new oil, using a clean funnel. I then wipe out the Kitchen Aide slow cooker with a FOTL 2XL 100% cotton tee shirt that I keep in the 3rd drawer of my Craftsman rolling toolbox. I use the slow cooker to heat the oil up to temperature over a period of 3 hours, as I don't want impart any type of heat fatigue onto the oil, which could happen if I were to use gas heat and a frying pan, as some may foolishly advise. I then install a new Fram filter and am good to go for another 100 miles.

You should be using Wix or OEM filters.
 

sontakke

Senior member
Aug 8, 2001
895
11
81
Assuming we are talking about late model cars with OLM, all of your concerns have been already taken in to account by the OLM algorithm. OLM *knows* how those 3000 miles were put on the vehicles. Would you believe me if I tell you that OLM is probably as smart as average driver and has heck of a memory? :)

Seriously, whether your car is mostly driven on highway or being driven in heavy stop and go traffic or if has many engine cold-starts or is being flogged, ECM knows all that and remembers and uses it to determine the life of your oil. If you car was built in this decade, most likely it has smart OLM.

Now, personally, I don't like the idea of long OCI, so even with OLM, I will not let it go to 15% as the owner's manual suggest but I would do it earlier. HOWEVER, I will still base that decision on the OLM percent trip point rather than the mileage.