How far can you go as a programmer/developer/software engineer?

[ugh]

Hi all,

I've been wondering how far one can go in terms of career wise if they're working as any of the aforementioned positions.

I'm a programmer (gahh... what's the difference?!??!) myself, but I'm not sure where this will lead to. Software Architect? Senior Software Engineer? {g} Is it better to move to the system side of stuff i.e. System Engineers or something? Or pickup an MBA and then move towards management of pple (yucks). I'm wondering if it's possible to climb the ladder and be a technical lead/mgr when starting out as a programmer.

Anyone?

 

[EagleKeeper]

Technical / Project Lead is about as far as you will climb without some type of management training.

Once you get some managment and/or business training, then you can climb a few more steps or branch out on your own as an independent.

 

[Rastus]

Does the name Bill Gates ring a bell?

 

[CountZero]

The CEO of my company and most of the execs are engineers with no manager or business training. From what I've heard most people work 10 or so years in software and then go onto manegerial/sales/executive type things. Thats not always true since some people hate the business side and do software/hardware forever.

 

[kranky]

I posted about moving into project management in this thread.

 

[ugh]

<< The CEO of my company and most of the execs are engineers with no manager or business training. From what I've heard most people work 10 or so years in software and then go onto manegerial/sales/executive type things. Thats not always true since some people hate the business side and do software/hardware forever. >>


Wow, that's cool. I'm sure they must have picked up the business side of stuff during the 10 years of work. I find it hard to believe that one can be a programmer forever. It SURE has to involve some kind of management.

 

[ugh]

<< I posted about moving into project management in this thread. >>


INteresting article. But doesn't reveal too much though. I guess I'll just have to see in a few more years (I only have like nearly 2 years of working experience) to see whether I'm really into the tech lead role. From there, I suppose it's possible to be a proj mgr. Problem is, I still want to be able to code if possible. How is that possible when you're a Proj Mgr?

 

[StageLeft]

Basically it can lead anywhere. Many developers eventually move into project management, andd from there the business world is fairly open...

 

[Descartes]

I don't know of a single self-respecting software engineer that would even *consider* moving into management, of any form. There's a common joke amongst software people that goes something like:

&quot;I can't believe I just <insert stupid mistake here>, maybe I should go into management.&quot;

From the perception of software engineers, it's often seen as losing one's prime when going into management. It's being acquiescent. It's the geek analog of someone who was once a hollywood star now doing commercials.

Personally, I've seen nothing but advancement in my career, and I'm 100% software. My official title at my company is Senior Software Engineer, but titles only go so far. I'm still involved with the business side, but I get to avoid all the mindless things that my boss has to endure.

Btw, management is inherently clueless. The only way a manager can manage, is if they perceive all aspects of the implementation as a &quot;black box.&quot; Personally, I'd rather be inside the black box...

[edit]I'd like to note, that a lot of times software people will gear themselves more toward design later in their career. Architectural type positions are very valuable, and you still get to be deeply involved with the technical side of the project. I find architecting a system to be quite enjoyable, but I like to implement it too. Consulting as an architect will pay very well, but you have to be really good. The last systems architect I worked with was doing ~$1k/day, and he had been working on the project for almost 2 years.[/edit]

 

[CountZero]

As far as programming forever I work with a guy in his 60s. Was VP of engineering at some company (don't remember which, and he's on vacation now) but hated it so he quit, became a contractor and programs. If you do contracting you can program forever if you wanted to. If you're a salary man you'll probably get promoted even if you don't want it.

 

[ugh]

<< I don't know of a single self-respecting software engineer that would even *consider* moving into management, of any form. >>


Come to think of it, I only know one guy who wouldn't consider moving to mgmt. I guess I must be mixing with the wrong pple then



<< &quot;I can't believe I just <insert stupid mistake here>, maybe I should go into management.&quot; >>


Ouch, that's kinda harsh



<< From the perception of software engineers, it's often seen as losing one's prime when going into management. It's being acquiescent. It's the geek analog of someone who was once a hollywood star now doing commercials. >>


It's something to do with not being able to compete with younger/brighter/more energetic new comers as programmers I suppose. That has a lot to do with this kinda thinking.



<< Personally, I've seen nothing but advancement in my career, and I'm 100% software. My official title at my company is Senior Software Engineer, but titles only go so far. I'm still involved with the business side, but I get to avoid all the mindless things that my boss has to endure. >>


But do you in any way manage anything? Do you manage the technology being used? I'm kinda looking into that in the long run.



<< I'd like to note, that a lot of times software people will gear themselves more toward design later in their career. Architectural type positions are very valuable, and you still get to be deeply involved with the technical side of the project. I find architecting a system to be quite enjoyable, but I like to implement it too. Consulting as an architect will pay very well, but you have to be really good. The last systems architect I worked with was doing ~$1k/day, and he had been working on the project for almost 2 years. >>


I've also been thinking about architecting as well. But somehow at this stage, I get stucked at which platform to implement things on

 

[Descartes]

<< But do you in any way manage anything? Do you manage the technology being used? I'm kinda looking into that in the long run. >>



Absolutely. I give the last word on how things should be implemented, orchestrate efforts of our developers, do most of the research when something comes up, determine what technologies/languages will be used in a given projects, etc.. I also manage a lot more than that, as my situation is a bit unique. In our datacenter, I manage most/all of the administration in terms of our sql server, iis, etc..

It just depends on the environment. I've worked for huge development groups before this, and you're lucky to manage to go to the bathroom without a change request.

 

[Ameesh]

project managers are the first ones to get canned when problems or rescion hit, they are a dime a dozen, they are also called calander nazis, trust me you dont want to be one.

 

[ugh]

<< Absolutely. I give the last word on how things should be implemented, orchestrate efforts of our developers, do most of the research when something comes up, determine what technologies/languages will be used in a given projects, etc.. I also manage a lot more than that, as my situation is a bit unique. In our datacenter, I manage most/all of the administration in terms of our sql server, iis, etc.. >>


Excellent. This is what I have in mind in the future At least I know there's a way to achieve this Did you start of as a programmer as well?



<< It just depends on the environment. I've worked for huge development groups before this, and you're lucky to manage to go to the bathroom without a change request. >>


That really sux. I haven't had the chance to work in a huge dev group yet. I've only been in like a 5-10 dev group projects. I suppose it's still the same no matter how large izit. BUt integration will be hell.

 

[ugh]

<< project managers are the first ones to get canned when problems or rescion hit, they are a dime a dozen, they are also called calander nazis, trust me you dont want to be one. >>


Ekk... How can I forget that

 

[gittyup]

At the company I work at, it is financially beneficial for you to become a project lead on a highly technical project. Make sure you know what your getting yourself into though. Most of the time, that means your actual coding time is decreased by 99%. Your time is spent managing the project and the coders that are working on it. I have not yet asked for this transition since I still am wanting to code most of my time. But, I have seen some project leads allocate coding time for themselves in order to keep up their skills. In addition, as the lead, you take the heat when things aren't going smoothly but you also take the praise when the project is on track and successful.