how far away are we from (AM?)OLED computer monitors?

[RavenSEAL]

With all these mobile devices using OLEDs now it honestly shouldn't take too long..

A 4in screen is not the same as a 27in screen, 2 different stories. The market isn't here.

 

[Nvidiaguy07]

A 4in screen is not the same as a 27in screen, 2 different stories. The market isn't here.

but would the adoption of it in so many devices make them ready to produce large ones faster? I mean, the technology is here, they just have to get everything in place and up and running. Wouldn't a higher demand for the tech in general help facilitate that?

 

[endlessmike133]

A 4in screen is not the same as a 27in screen, 2 different stories. The market isn't here.

No shit.

However the kinks of OLEDs are being worked out a fast rate thanks to the heavy adoption in Android based Smartphones and Sony's new NGP; it's not that the market isn't there for OLED screens, it's that the technology isn't there for mass adoption.

The market is there, and OLED screens will be the new thing after the 3DTV fad wears down.

 

[wuliheron]

Like taltamir said OLED is going to be much cheaper to produce than LCDs.

Quantum dots are theoretically cheaper to make then the cheapest OLEDs, much less LCDs.

The materials they are made out of are cheaper and Samsung's new process is a simple printing process. The picture of QDs is superior to OLEDs, and they use 1/3 less power. About the only advantage OLEDs have over QDs right now is the screens can be more flexible.

Understandably manufacturers have been reluctant to invest billions of dollars into building a new plant when the technology for either one is not yet fully developed. However, Samsung's new printing process looks very scalable and the advantages of QDs over OLEDs make it the leading contender right now for replacing LCDs.

 

[taltamir]

Quantum dots are theoretically cheaper to make then the cheapest OLEDs, much less LCDs.

that is ALSO something I have already said
And he was talking about LCD vs OLED prices not OLED vs QD price

The materials they are made out of are cheaper

Yes they are.

and Samsung's new process is a simple printing process

Same for OLED

About the only advantage OLEDs have over QDs right now is the screens can be more flexible.

Also that they have been in development longer and have actual products on the market. I remember thinking "why bother with LED backlit LCD, just jump straight to OLED"... years later and LED backlit LCD rules the market and OLED are just not yet ready.
If QD is ready tommorow then they could cut out OLED, but those things take time, years. Even within LCD tech you have IPS, VA, TN, and various sub technologies of each one of those... Those things are developed in parallel.

I have to say I am very very excited about QD tech, even more excited then I am about OLED... but neither is going to be mainstream for a while (at least for monitors, phones are another thing). And OLED is much further along in its development and deployment. QD is a lab experiment right now, OLED is a (very expensive) product.

 

[endlessmike133]

I'm seriously laughing at the thought of QD being the prime contender for replacing LCDs over OLEDs.

LOL

 

[bunnyfubbles]

not soon enough, best case scenario I can see is 2-3 years, people are just too content with LCD

 

[sandorski]

A 4in screen is not the same as a 27in screen, 2 different stories. The market isn't here.

Put 6 in Eyefinity, voila, 24"!!!!! :hmm:

 

[AnonymouseUser]

Put 6 in Eyefinity, voila, 24"!!!!! :hmm:

*drools*

Hey wait a second... :'(

 

[wahdangun]

yeah, i can't wait for oled, this LCD technology was suck, I rather use CRT, than this pos.

 

[snuuggles]

Can someone (taltamir?) explain why it takes a huge investment to "scale up" the oleds from phone to, say, 27-30"? I mean, the phones today are starting to approach the resolutions we could use on desktops (960x640 for iphone), and you would think that a larger size would be *easier* to make than these tiny little things - especially w/o the touchscreens!

I'm just genuinely curious what the different factors are besides resolution. Light output?

Also, I'm interested in the 3d monitors not for the 3d but for the superior motion resolution that 120hz delivers, would these oled panels be able to accept and display 120hz+?

 

[bunnyfubbles]

Its about longevity. People don't buy their phones, especially cellphones/smartphones, and expect to use them for years. And by years I mean the better part of a decade. People upgrade their phones too frequently for there to be any concern over screen degradation.

If people threw away their monitors/TVs and upgraded them as frequently as they did their cellphones we'd have OLED for such uses by now.

 

[QuantumPion]

Its about longevity. People don't buy their phones, especially cellphones/smartphones, and expect to use them for years. And by years I mean the better part of a decade. People upgrade their phones too frequently for there to be any concern over screen degradation.

If people threw away their monitors/TVs and upgraded them as frequently as they did their cellphones we'd have OLED for such uses by now.

I think they already have that issue sorted out. The main problem is quality control now. When you are making 4" screens it is not as big of a loss when you have to throw out many panels due to defects. But if you are making 24" panels you may end up throwing away so many of them that it is not profitable to make them at all.

 

[BinBash]

Hi

Interesting how this thread developed.

First: Forget about those Sony monitors mentioned in the startingpost. Those monitors are made for color correction/ control work in movie postproduction/ TV broadcasting. The customers for those do have that kind of money to burn on a monitor and Sony won't be selling much of those either. I'd be surprised if they actually sold more than 10000 of those units total! Besides: The 23" LCD-based broadcast monitor Sony BVM-L231 costs 19'000 € too!
http://www.videocation.com/Sony_Broadcast_LCD_Monitor_BVM-L230_ofr.html

Second: Based on the below post, a Gen5.5 OLED fab can produce 264 4.3" panels or 6 32" panels per single substratesheet. 4.3" panels are simply more costeffective in production than 32" panels, especially since yield rates aren't at 100%. How much more depends on yieldrate. Not to mention that the market for 4.3" panels is probably much bigger thanks to smartphones. So what has to happen to make 32" panels economical in production? New bigger fabs. Currently Samsung has a Gen5.5 fab scheduled to start production in May 2011.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=19159985#post19159985

There are still serious issues to be solved for OLED. Lifespan of the blue OLEDs is still much lower than red and green (which don't have a very high lifetime themselves, a few 10000 hours until brightness falls below 50% isn't really impressive). Powerdelivery is also problematic on bigger panels. Transparent materials generally aren't good electrical conductors and a few thousand nontransparent wires within the panel will create a very noticable screendoor effect. Keep in mind that most of the power current LCDs consume is for the backlight (the inverter needed for CCFL backlight has a pretty low efficiency too) and backlight doesn't need transparent wires. With OLED all the power needed has to go through the panel itself, with most of the wires having high specific resistance much of this power is just heating up the panel. Add to this, that the organic materials in OLEDs are much more sensitive to temperature than anything in LCDs.

Don't get me wrong. I'd like to buy OLED based monitors and TVs but I don't see them coming for reasonable prices anytime soon.

 

[lamedude]

If I can't have a SED you can't have a OLED.

 

[endlessmike133]

Hi

Interesting how this thread developed.

First: Forget about those Sony monitors mentioned in the startingpost. Those monitors are made for color correction/ control work in movie postproduction/ TV broadcasting. The customers for those do have that kind of money to burn on a monitor and Sony won't be selling much of those either. I'd be surprised if they actually sold more than 10000 of those units total! Besides: The 23" LCD-based broadcast monitor Sony BVM-L231 costs 19'000 € too!
http://www.videocation.com/Sony_Broadcast_LCD_Monitor_BVM-L230_ofr.html

Second: Based on the below post, a Gen5.5 OLED fab can produce 264 4.3" panels or 6 32" panels per single substratesheet. 4.3" panels are simply more costeffective in production than 32" panels, especially since yield rates aren't at 100%. How much more depends on yieldrate. Not to mention that the market for 4.3" panels is probably much bigger thanks to smartphones. So what has to happen to make 32" panels economical in production? New bigger fabs. Currently Samsung has a Gen5.5 fab scheduled to start production in May 2011.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=19159985#post19159985

There are still serious issues to be solved for OLED. Lifespan of the blue OLEDs is still much lower than red and green (which don't have a very high lifetime themselves, a few 10000 hours until brightness falls below 50% isn't really impressive). Powerdelivery is also problematic on bigger panels. Transparent materials generally aren't good electrical conductors and a few thousand nontransparent wires within the panel will create a very noticable screendoor effect. Keep in mind that most of the power current LCDs consume is for the backlight (the inverter needed for CCFL backlight has a pretty low efficiency too) and backlight doesn't need transparent wires. With OLED all the power needed has to go through the panel itself, with most of the wires having high specific resistance much of this power is just heating up the panel. Add to this, that the organic materials in OLEDs are much more sensitive to temperature than anything in LCDs.

Don't get me wrong. I'd like to buy OLED based monitors and TVs but I don't see them coming for reasonable prices anytime soon.

Samsung has apparently fixed the whole blue OLED problem (and also extended the lifespan of all the colors) in their new SAMSUNG SUPER AMOLED PLUS screens.

Lord knows what Sony has figured out with the NGP..

 

[Obsoleet]

Asus TN panels are great. I have one and a S-IPS and have no problem with the TN. I wouldn't bother with an IPS if I were buying today. Or worry about OLED.

 

[endlessmike133]

Asus TN panels are great. I have one and a S-IPS and have no problem with the TN. I wouldn't bother with an IPS if I were buying today. Or worry about OLED.

OLED screens destroy TN panels and IPS panel for gaming and everything else also.

 

[Obsoleet]

Go buy one then.

I use plasma tvs and LCD monitors for PC. Very happy.

 

[snuuggles]

Go buy one then.

I use plasma tvs and LCD monitors for PC. Very happy.

Hey Obsoleet, are you saying you use a plasma as a display for your PC? Do you use it for gaming, work, browsing? I'm considering getting a 3d monitor (120hz input) to improve motion resolution, but I've heard that plasma does an excellent job with that kind of thing as well, and since I'm not intererested in 3d, just the motion resolution, maybe I'd be just as happy with a plasma?

I'd be very interested in your opinion. I mostly (75%) play games on my pc, and very occationally work and browse. Besides image retention/burn in, is there anything *else* I should be concerned with using a plasma as a pc display? I was thinking of getting a 32/37 inch plasma, but is there one you recommend? I'm not going to be watchin movies or tv on this thing, so the featuers that matter to me are:

- motion resolution
- input lag
- sharp text (for when I do browse etc

Thanks, I guess I could research this, but I'm interested in your (anyone's) first-hand knowledge.

Sorry to de-rail this, if that's what I'm doing.

 

[endlessmike133]

Go buy one then.

I use plasma tvs and LCD monitors for PC. Very happy.

You'll be much happier once OLED replaces them both however.

Plasmas are a nice alternative to LCDs but OLED screens obviously out do them both easily.

 

[BinBash]

Samsung has apparently fixed the whole blue OLED problem (and also extended the lifespan of all the colors) in their new SAMSUNG SUPER AMOLED PLUS screens.

Lord knows what Sony has figured out with the NGP..

Samsung sure works on increasing the lifespan of their OLED, as does anyone else. But until I see some solid numbers about the lifespan of super AMOLED plus displays I won't consider lifespan as it's big improvement. Besides I thought super AMOLED plus' big new thing was the switch from PenTile to RGB matrix.
You have to consider that the big deal about OLEDs lifespan is the vastly diffrent rate the three colros are aging at. Throwing color balance out the window within a few thousand hours. And if you're not concerned about color balance (greyscale color temperature) you might just as well stick with TN panels then.

 

[JimmiG]

Not sure I would pay a premium for an AMOLED display.

Their greatest strength is their ability to accurately display absolutely nothing (black). If AMOLED displays became mainstream, games and movies would become so dark (to take advantage of this new "feature") that by comparison, Doom3 without the duct-tape mod would appear to be set in broad daylight.

 

[BinBash]

There are already games with very dark scenes, you just don't notice because of the bad black levels of current LCDs :biggrin: And if the picture get's too dark overall it's most likely because of poor gamma response (in the monitor or in the game, seen both). As a sidenote: I never figuerd what kind of problems people had with Doom 3 and darknes... just because every other wimp get's a headmounted flashlight (more floodlight) with infinite batteries.

Also I wouldn't say that OLEDs blacks are it's only strong advantage. Viewing angles is another and response time. When LG showed the 31" panel in CES '11 a rep supposedley said it could refresh at 600Hz Now I'd really like to see that.

 

[Vdubchaos]

Im holding off as well. Not a fan of currant 27" LCD options out there and lack of 120hz.

My Samsung fascinate has an AMAZING screen (Super AMOLED)....it would be nice to see this technology in gaming monitors.