How does one learn the sciences/engineering properly? (Physics, EE, etc)

[Ricemarine]

So right now, I'm noticing I'm having big issues with the Intro to Electrical Engineering (as for those who've read my last thread said). Over the past two years that I've taken Engineering Physics and now Intro to Electrical Engineering, I've noticed that my critical thinking skills are subpar to others.

The learning process for EE and physics were that they give a simple concept, and then give you a more complex problem in hopes that your critical analysis skills kick in and you are able to solve it.

The problem is, my learning style is not like that. I prefer knowing the concept, and the processes required of applying the simple concept to a more complex problem, rather than taking an educated guess as to how to solve it properly. I rather be exposed to all the possible scenarios and the correct processes to solve the complex problem, but apparently trying to do that with physics and EE tend to not work out well. Is this possible algorithmic thinking (heard that thought process from a friend, but hearsay doesn't mean squat if it's not true).

Computer programming was much much easier for me because they laid down the proper tools available, the processes, and made you apply the processes and tools in different situations. There was no guessing as to how to do it, because if you knew the processes that lead up to solving it with common sense it became simple.

Thus, I'm trying to figure out what my mindset should be when doing these problems with the learning processes that I'm supposed to be accustomed to in EE and physics. I'm not sure if I feel overwhelmed by the amount of possible ways to solve a complex problem, or if I just don't think at all. What should my mindset be? Or what can I do to accustom myself to the way I think?

Thanks

Cliffs:
Having trouble with EE and physics
Cannot use simple concepts to solve more complex problems without knowing the correct process as to how to do so.
What should my mindset be?

 

[FleshLight]

How to be an engineer:1. draw fbd/circuit/structure
2. apply equations to fbd/circuit/structure

 

[Howard]

Originally posted by: FleshLight
How to be an engineer:1. draw fbd/circuit/structure
2. apply equations to fbd/circuit/structure

3. Know safety code and regulations

 

[yhelothar]

A big way to being able to solve those problem is just developing the right techniques to organize information so you can figure out a way to solve them. My first physics professor I've had was an amazing professor. He was really good at getting us to organize the information in a way that makes it easy to solve very complex problems. His exams used very complex problems that we've never worked on before in class and requires a lot of dimensional analysis.

I'm now taking a higher physics class and the professor is absolutely horrid. He mostly just does examples on the board and reads through all the equations really quick with very little explanation. I can't see how anyone learns to do the complex problem solving in physics like that. And in comparison, his exams are very basic with very basic problems, and the average is much lower.

Start by listing all your knowns and unknowns, then look at all the equations pertinent to the problem and see which variables you can evaluate.
Many times there are many factors in an equation that relate. You can also list all of those out and put them into the equation afterwards. For example, for problems like energy problems, list out all the different types of energy for the intial and final states, (potential, kinetic, spring, etc), and set the sum of the intial to the sum of the final.

 

[Leros]

EE/Physics and computer programming are very similar. You take a problem and keep breaking it into subproblems until you have something you can solve. With EE/Physics you might need to do some massaging to get things into something familiar, but its very similar thinking IMO.

 

[JohnCU]

can you post an example of a problem that you're having trouble with? might be able to help more that way.

you can also PM me anytime you need help with EE homework, i remember some of it haha

 

[ebaycj]

Originally posted by: Leros
EE/Physics and computer programming are very similar. You take a problem and keep breaking it into subproblems until you have something you can solve. With EE/Physics you might need to do some massaging to get things into something familiar, but its very similar thinking IMO.

yep.

Actually, the easiest way to do it is to:

1. do as much as you can (apply all simple tools / equations).

2. with what is left, look at the variables that you have that are known and the ones that are unknown, compare to a list of all equations you have. If it is a clean fit to an equation you have, use that equation. Otherwise proceed to step 3.

3. do math on the equations to make one "fit" so as to be able to "solve" it (figure out one variable). Then plug in the value you solved for, and go back to step 1. rinse, repeat (until problem is solved).



Oh yeah. I forgot to mention the #1 rule of engineering. If you don't get it, and you whine about how "you don't learn like that", you're probably not an engineer.

 

[Howard]

Originally posted by: ebaycj

Originally posted by: Leros
EE/Physics and computer programming are very similar. You take a problem and keep breaking it into subproblems until you have something you can solve. With EE/Physics you might need to do some massaging to get things into something familiar, but its very similar thinking IMO.

Oh yeah. I forgot to mention the #1 rule of engineering. If you don't get it, and you whine about how "you don't learn like that", you're probably not an engineer.

Yeah, seriously. "I don't think like that" is a cop-out (in nice terms).

 

[JohnCU]

Originally posted by: Howard

Originally posted by: ebaycj

Originally posted by: Leros
EE/Physics and computer programming are very similar. You take a problem and keep breaking it into subproblems until you have something you can solve. With EE/Physics you might need to do some massaging to get things into something familiar, but its very similar thinking IMO.

Oh yeah. I forgot to mention the #1 rule of engineering. If you don't get it, and you whine about how "you don't learn like that", you're probably not an engineer.

Yeah, seriously. "I don't think like that" is a cop-out (in nice terms).

agreed.

 

[Ricemarine]

Originally posted by: ebaycj
1. do as much as you can (apply all simple tools / equations).

I think that's more or less easier said than done in my opinion. I guess right now my problem is how to not be overwhelmed a big circuit and dissecting it into many subproblems to solve for a specific branch or capacitor, etc. For example, we're on step/natural responses, and one of the problems was to solve for the voltage across an inductor. At first, I thought I could source transform, couldn't. Mesh would be a last resort. What could be done? I'm not sure. So I went to see the TA, and they had to show me that it was possible to solve via node voltage method and current divider equations.

But I guess that also means I need to see the TA's more to fully understand certain situations (I already do by the way, two days a week for help on homework). The only remedy so far is to gain experience for certain problems, but does that mean the TA's should give me the proper mindset or should I be able to solve for it on my own when I'm stumped? So in a sense are they basically spoonfeeding me the proper process to solving it? Is it really necessary to do so?...

Heck I don't know. All I know is that I'm still trying.

 

[TridenT]

I'd get help from others, ASAP. Teachers, tutors, whatever you can.

 

[Howard]

Originally posted by: Ricemarine

Originally posted by: ebaycj
1. do as much as you can (apply all simple tools / equations).

I think that's more or less easier said than done in my opinion. I guess right now my problem is how to not be overwhelmed a big circuit and dissecting it into many subproblems to solve for a specific branch or capacitor, etc. For example, we're on step/natural responses, and one of the problems was to solve for the voltage across an inductor. At first, I thought I could source transform, couldn't. Mesh would be a last resort. What could be done? I'm not sure. So I went to see the TA, and they had to show me that it was possible to solve via node voltage method and current divider equations.

Did they teach node analysis and current division in class?

 

[jagec]

Meh, you can always just fail out of your classes and go Civil Engineering instead. You can still call yourself an engineer to people who don't know any better.

 

[JohnCU]

Originally posted by: jagec
Meh, you can always just fail out of your classes and go Civil Engineering instead. You can still call yourself an engineer to people who don't know any better.

lulz

 

[mcmilljb]

My DSP professor was wise when he told us, "you cannot solve complex problems without breaking them down into terms you can understand and use." Granted we were talking about Fourier or Laplace transforms at the time, but it's how things work in the engineering world. When you get a complex problem, you need to start deciding, "how do I get to something I understand?" It does takes practice to learn how to apply new concepts, but that's why they give you practice problems which get progressively harder.

When you do problems with the TA, don't let the TA solve them for you. Tell them what step you're going to start with and why you think it's the first step. The TA can tell you if you're right or wrong. If you're right, then you go onto the next step otherwise you discuss why it's not. Keep repeating as you go through the problem, telling him what you think is the next step. Usually this helps to identify which concepts you understand know.

 

[Jahee]

My lecturer has given us a system to work with which he calls LEMS

1. Label the variables you, i.e. initial velocity, mass, acceleration an so on.

2. Equate all the known variables into an equation.

3. Manipulate or rearrange the equation to suit the problem.

4. Substitute the variables into your chosen equation.

When you have the known variables set out infront of you i think you'll find it much easier to come to a solution, it definately helped me with alot of problems.


For example if you're asked to work out Acceleration and are given values for Force and Mass.

Write out the knowns infront of you, you can then use the equation F = ma, and rearrange it to find a = F/m then you can subsitute your variables into the new equation..

Maybe that will help?

 

[NikolaeVarius]

Originally posted by: Jahee
My lecturer has given us a system to work with which he calls LEMS

1. Label the variables you, i.e. initial velocity, mass, acceleration an so on.

2. Equate all the known variables into an equation.

3. Manipulate or rearrange the equation to suit the problem.

4. Substitute the variables into your chosen equation.

When you have the known variables set out infront of you i think you'll find it much easier to come to a solution, it definately helped me with alot of problems.


For example if you're asked to work out Acceleration and are given values for Force and Mass.

Write out the knowns infront of you, you can then use the equation F = ma, and rearrange it to find a = F/m then you can subsitute your variables into the new equation..

Maybe that will help?

This

Also, I like physics because everything just fits works. Just think about the problem logically and think about what you need to do in order to get everything to fit together.

 

[her209]

1. Look at given problem.
2. ...
3. Profit!

 

[rocadelpunk]

Polya's problem solving guide

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_P%C3%B3lya