How does gay marriage hurt you ?

[jjzelinski]

Originally posted by: CSMR

Originally posted by: jjzelinski
Why do you Christians seek to impose the law of YOUR religion on everyone else? Is it not enough to satisfy your relationship w/ god to abide to his law yourself? In other words, MIND YOUR OWN G@D D4MN BUSINESS.

God tells us to love others. That means we are to mind other people's business if we are to obey God. Sometimes this will mean doing things that people like; sometimes not. If others don't know God then they are in a situation that has to be helped if possible.

And anyway, what is politics except minding other people's business!

Do you not see that an attempt to limit the freedom of consenting American adults based on a specific, non-threatening criteria is blatantly bigoted? People like you claim that gay marriage is some kind of Pandora's Box, that if we "allow" this it will lead to the destruction of our society.

You call it an infection, as if you think you and/or your kids will become gay if they're exposed to "gayness." That again implies homosexuality is a choice, and how could you possibly know this? Are you gay? Is that how you know so profoundly the nature of homosexuality? If not you are not entitled to an opinion in a rational sense because that opinion would be based on anything but fact. If you and you ilk would be so easily swayed into "gayness" then you already have a personal you must deal with in accordance to your faith, but that is YOUR issue; not mine, not anyone else?s.

Here's MY opinion on where this rejection of equality for your fellow Americans is derived from; white NASCAR Americans are counter-revolting against all the major civil rights movements of the last 50 years. You're sick and tired of being told you must be tolerant, and empathetic to people who you hold in utter contempt (which I believe is ANYONE who is not an identical copy of your physical characteristics, belief system and religious persuasion.) The last decade or so made you feel threatened, they made you question whether or not you and those like you were losing control of the country and 9/11 was the straw that broke the camels back.

9/11 legitimized your perception of threat and gave you what little justification you needed to weed out and invalidate anyone who does not live up to your paradigm of being American. Anyone with beliefs incongruent with your own is immediately and interminably labeled as un-American. Don't like the way religion is being incorporated into our government? Well this is God's country and if you don't like you can leave. You don't agree with the war? Well you don't support the king, er um, President and you are therefore unpatriotic... and you hate our troops... You aren't concerned about the evil gay agenda? Well again, this is god's country and even though MY BIBLE says that all sins are equal and "he who hath not sinned cast the first stone," damnit, I'm going to ignore all that and let loose this enormous pile of stones I've been collecting over the last 50 years because you don't fit the profile of the master race, er wunderkind, er middle American.

The fact of the matter is that your fight against "the gay agenda" is merely symptomatic of a much larger cultural revolution that has been brewing for almost 2 generations. The means are WRONG, the ends are WRONG, and you're setting this country up for disaster if you insist on throwing your weight around further.

 

[jjzelinski]

Originally posted by: polm

Originally posted by: CSMR

Originally posted by: jjzelinski
Why do you Christians seek to impose the law of YOUR religion on everyone else? Is it not enough to satisfy your relationship w/ god to abide to his law yourself? In other words, MIND YOUR OWN G@D D4MN BUSINESS.

God tells us to love others. That means we are to mind other people's business if we are to obey God. Sometimes this will mean doing things that people like; sometimes not. If others don't know God then they are in a situation that has to be helped if possible.

And anyway, what is politics except minding other people's business!

listen Dude, you don't know anything more about G-D, or what he wants from us, than I do.

It's called INTERPERETATION !!!

You cannot force your opinionated interperetation concerning what G-D wants on other people.

That is not Love. Love is accepting people, not demeaning them.

You cannot judge a man, only G-D can. So stop doing it, OK.

ROFL!!! DO you NOT see the absurd irony in that statement?!

EDIT* nm polm, I think I misinterpreted your stance. My appologies.

 

[ITJunkie]

Originally posted by: CSMR

Originally posted by: judasmachine
Man you know what you get when you deny a drunk a drink? A sober alcoholic, they still lie, cheat, and steal. There would still be this 'order' thing you talk about if the state recognized gay marriage, and perhaps a bit more order.

That is true; the law does not create morality. My opinion is that the law creates a sense of morality but not an obedience to it.
"Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin."
Whether human laws create this sense I do not know for sure - I think so. If there were no laws against theft I think there would be not only more theft but more acceptance of theft as ok behaviour.

You do realize you're quoting from a book written by man for man about an entity that man can't even comprehend!!!

It's the old "tale gets larger on down the line" syndrome. :disgust:

 

[CSMR]

Originally posted by: polm
none of your biblical quotes provide rationale for your "judging in the sense of correcting".

Er...
thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him

 

[CSMR]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
And you wonder why people dislike your ilk so much!

No, I don't. You can like or dislike me; I don't wonder about it. I don't see the need to make it known, but that's up to you.

 

[CSMR]

Originally posted by: polm
then, please, deliver the message. Just don't FORCE the message into LAW !

I don't, even if I could. I think that laws should be just, but that is quite separate and of no importance compared to the message of Christ.

 

[polm]

Originally posted by: CSMR

Originally posted by: polm
then, please, deliver the message. Just don't FORCE the message into LAW !

I don't, even if I could. I think that laws should be just, but that is quite separate and of no importance compared to the message of Christ.

voting to Ban Gay marriage is forcing the message into law.

 

[CSMR]

Originally posted by: jjzelinski
People like you claim that gay marriage is some kind of Pandora's Box, that if we "allow" this it will lead to the destruction of our society.

I don't. Society will still exist.

You call it an infection, as if you think you and/or your kids will become gay if they're exposed to "gayness."

I don't have any opinion on that either.

That again implies homosexuality is a choice?

Nor on this.

Here's MY opinion on where this rejection of equality for your fellow Americans is derived from;

I don't accept your analysis, but since all human action is fundamentally selfish and wronly-motivated I am sure that some more plausible cynical reason for rejection of equality exists, just as for the acceptance of equality.

 

[CSMR]

Originally posted by: polm
voting to Ban Gay marriage is forcing the message into law.

It's forcing a moral opinion into law. (It isn't forcing Christ into law.) This goes for all laws. Isn't legislating against theft forcing a moral opinion into law, that theft is wrong?

 

[TravisT]

Okay, I am tired of the Christians being blamed for pushing our religion on you guys. Yes, many of us voted based on morals. Everyone has morals. Morals is what gives us the difference in distinguishing right and wrong. That gives us the sense of who to vote for come election time and to make choices in the things we vote for or against on our ballots. EVERYONE here voted based on their morals.

By voting based on what we feel is right or wrong is not imposing on pushing what we believe on you. That is the benefit of a democracy. Everyone in the country voted and 11 out of 11 states, the voting citizens felt that Gay marriage was wrong and immoral. If you don't like it, go to Canada or France.

If I really wanted to force Christian beliefs on you I would hold a knife to your throat and force you to vote for the Marriage Amendment.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: CSMR

Originally posted by: polm
voting to Ban Gay marriage is forcing the message into law.

It's forcing a moral opinion into law. (It isn't forcing Christ into law.) This goes for all laws. Isn't legislating against theft forcing a moral opinion into law, that theft is wrong?

Hmm..using your logic maybe we could pass a law here in Mass outlawing Evangelicals. I can assure you that it would make the place less annoying. No more dip sh!ts knocking on my door trying to get me to believe in the archaic Mythology.

 

[Fausto]

Originally posted by: TravisT
Okay, I am tired of the Christians being blamed for pushing our religion on you guys. Yes, many of us voted based on morals. Everyone has morals. Morals is what gives us the difference in distinguishing right and wrong. That gives us the sense of who to vote for come election time and to make choices in the things we vote for or against on our ballots. EVERYONE here voted based on their morals.

By voting based on what we feel is right or wrong is not imposing on pushing what we believe on you. That is the benefit of a democracy. Everyone in the country voted and 11 out of 11 states, the voting citizens felt that Gay marriage was wrong and immoral. If you don't like it, go to Canada or France.

If I really wanted to force Christian beliefs on you I would hold a knife to your throat and force you to vote for the Marriage Amendment.

How about you answer the original question and tell us all about how gay marriage affects you personally and why the ban is the right thing to do?

 

[espressoman]

Originally posted by: TravisT
Okay, I am tired of the Christians being blamed for pushing our religion on you guys. Yes, many of us voted based on morals. Everyone has morals. Morals is what gives us the difference in distinguishing right and wrong. That gives us the sense of who to vote for come election time and to make choices in the things we vote for or against on our ballots. EVERYONE here voted based on their morals.

By voting based on what we feel is right or wrong is not imposing on pushing what we believe on you. That is the benefit of a democracy. Everyone in the country voted and 11 out of 11 states, the voting citizens felt that Gay marriage was wrong and immoral. If you don't like it, go to Canada or France.

If I really wanted to force Christian beliefs on you I would hold a knife to your throat and force you to vote for the Marriage Amendment.

At one point every state voted against interracial marriage. That decision was thought to be morally correct. Do you think that it's morally correct to ban interracial marriage? Or a woman's right to vote?


(I took a supreme court case.. from the minority... to remove that ban.)

 

[pdqcarrera]

Originally posted by: espressoman
Discrimination is DISCRIMINATION. You are cleary discriminating against some one for who they are. Discriminating against someone because of their sexuality is no different than discriminating against someone for the color of their skin. You are living in a world of ignorance and hate, whether or not you see it.

Every society has the right, the obligation, the responsibility, to define what is acceptable behavior. I am among the majority that still believes homosexuality is a deviant sexual act. You can debate to the end of time how one's sexual preference is created, the fact of the matter is that hetero-, homo-, bi-, whatever ... all are defined by a sexual behavior. The color of one's skin, their race, is not based on a behavior. Geneticists have strong evidence backing various theories regarding all sorts of behavior that may be DNA driven including addictive disorders (including alcoholism), personality, and yes of course sexual preferences.

Frankly I don't give a damn if it is indeed proven that people are born with a preference for animals, children or the same sex ... they are sexual deviations that I am not willing to accept as a norm for moral/religious and ethical reasons. This doesn't mean that I hate or unreasonably discriminate against homosexuals. After all, there is such a thing as reasonable discrimination.

Cheers, Bossco

 

[espressoman]

Originally posted by: pdqcarrera

Every society has the right, the obligation, the responsibility, to define what is acceptable behavior. I am among the majority that still believes homosexuality is a deviant sexual act. You can debate to the end of time how one's sexual preference is created, the fact of the matter is that hetero-, homo-, bi-, whatever ... all are defined by a sexual behavior. The color of one's skin, their race, is not based on a behavior. Geneticists have strong evidence backing various theories regarding all sorts of behavior that may be DNA driven including addictive disorders (including alcoholism), personality, and yes of course sexual preferences.

Frankly I don't give a damn if it is indeed proven that people are born with a preference for animals, children or the same sex ... they are sexual deviations that I am not willing to accept as a norm for moral/religious and ethical reasons. This doesn't mean that I hate or unreasonably discriminate against homosexuals. After all, there is such a thing as reasonable discrimination.

Cheers, Bossco

From my post before:

Homosexuality is not an abomination. You cannot look past the actual "sex" and understand the sexuality. Your narrow mind cannot take an objective look at this topic because you are too disgusted by the "sex".

Suppose I told you I was gay. That I was happily in love with my partner of 5 years. Are you willing to tell me that, because I LOVE someone, and I am willing to spend the rest of my life with someone, I can not marry them because you are uncomfortable because of that? That I will be treated like a second class citizen just because I LOVE someone? Does it really make a difference whether or not the person is of the same or opposite sex? Two humans having faith in one another is not good enough for marriage? Isn't that what the word of God teaches us? That above all else having faith in something is far more important than self-righteousness, or hate, or ignorance?

 

[dnuggett]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: CSMR

Originally posted by: polm
voting to Ban Gay marriage is forcing the message into law.

It's forcing a moral opinion into law. (It isn't forcing Christ into law.) This goes for all laws. Isn't legislating against theft forcing a moral opinion into law, that theft is wrong?

Hmm..using your logic maybe we could pass a law here in Mass outlawing Evangelicals. I can assure you that it would make the place less annoying. No more dip sh!ts knocking on my door trying to get me to believe in the archaic Mythology.

Hmm... using your logic maybe we could pass a law here in Texas outlawing gays, period. I can assure you that it would make this place less annoying. No more tongue kissing guys going to Six Flags for gay pride day.

 

[TravisT]

Originally posted by: espressoman

Originally posted by: TravisT
Okay, I am tired of the Christians being blamed for pushing our religion on you guys. Yes, many of us voted based on morals. Everyone has morals. Morals is what gives us the difference in distinguishing right and wrong. That gives us the sense of who to vote for come election time and to make choices in the things we vote for or against on our ballots. EVERYONE here voted based on their morals.

By voting based on what we feel is right or wrong is not imposing on pushing what we believe on you. That is the benefit of a democracy. Everyone in the country voted and 11 out of 11 states, the voting citizens felt that Gay marriage was wrong and immoral. If you don't like it, go to Canada or France.

If I really wanted to force Christian beliefs on you I would hold a knife to your throat and force you to vote for the Marriage Amendment.

At one point every state voted against interracial marriage. That decision was thought to be morally correct. Do you think that it's morally correct to ban interracial marriage? Or a woman's right to vote?


(I took a supreme court case.. from the minority... to remove that ban.)

That is irrelevent. My point is is that no one forced our opinions on you. Obviously, the majority in the 11 States who banned gay marriage felt it was immoral. I stand behind my vote regardless of if you feel i'm wrong or not.

 

[espressoman]

Originally posted by: TravisT

That is irrelevent. My point is is that no one forced our opinions on you. Obviously, the majority in the 11 States who banned gay marriage felt it was immoral. I stand behind my vote regardless of if you feel i'm wrong or not.

How is it irrelevent? You don't seem to be forcing the opinion of denying interracial marriages... but you don't because we got over that hill... why can't you get over this one? I'm trying to point out that what the majority thinks, isn't always morally correct. If you are making laws to ban gay marriage, you might as well make laws to ban interracial marriage, ban smoking, ban the sale of alcohol, ban free thinking, ban television, ban MTV, ban Howard Stern, ban teaching evolution in schools, ban the sale of firearms, etc.. etc.. etc...

 

[pdqcarrera]

How about you answer the original question and tell us all about how gay marriage affects you personally and why the ban is the right thing to do?

It effects me personally because I believe homosexual behavior is immoral and that marriage is by definition the moral cojoining of a man and woman into one sexual entity. The whole foundational purpose behind marriage is to bring man and woman together as one sexually.

I don't want to see the institution of marriage diluted any more than it already has been. I'd like to see all 50 states act as one society in this matter and adopt a universal definition of marriage. However, if this isn't possible because some states have a different majority viewpoint that's OK by me ... it's democracy in action.

 

[espressoman]

Originally posted by: pdqcarrera

It effects me personally because I believe homosexual behavior is immoral and that marriage is by definition the moral cojoining of a man and woman into one sexual entity. The whole foundational purpose behind marriage is to bring man and woman together as one sexually.

I don't want to see the institution of marriage diluted any more than it already has been. I'd like to see all 50 states act as one society in this matter and adopt a universal definition of marriage. However, if this isn't possible because some states have a different majority viewpoint that's OK by me ... it's democracy in action.

That isn't a valid arguement, because as it stands, 52% off all marriages now FAIL. Why not just ban divorce? I bet murder rates would skyrocket if that happen.

The foundation of marriage is not about sex, as you seem to think. Heck, I'm sure most married couples don't even have sex... After you've been with the same person for a while it kind of get boring! *chuckles* Marriage is about having faith and commitment in one another... and whether it's man and a woman, a woman and a woman, or man and man, it shouldn't matter. Marriage is about coming together.

And democracy has nothing to do with keeping a majority.... it means every individual has a voice. If you want the majority to have a voice, be a communist or a nazi... I bet if you had people voting in the south whether or not to keep blacks as slaves, it would probably win out! Do you think that's democracy?

 

[TravisT]

Originally posted by: espressoman

Originally posted by: TravisT

That is irrelevent. My point is is that no one forced our opinions on you. Obviously, the majority in the 11 States who banned gay marriage felt it was immoral. I stand behind my vote regardless of if you feel i'm wrong or not.

How is it irrelevent? You don't seem to be forcing the opinion of denying interracial marriages... but you don't because we got over that hill... why can't you get over this one? I'm trying to point out that what the majority thinks, isn't always morally correct. If you are making laws to ban gay marriage, you might as well make laws to ban interracial marriage, ban smoking, ban the sale of alcohol, ban free thinking, ban television, ban MTV, ban Howard Stern, ban teaching evolution in schools, ban the sale of firearms, etc.. etc.. etc...

There is a huge difference, in my opinion, in homosexuality and interracial marriage. Then again, the vast majority of the United States doesn't feel the way you do, does it? 🙂

 

[espressoman]

Originally posted by: TravisT
[
There is a huge difference, in my opinion, in homosexuality and interracial marriage. Then again, the vast majority of the United States doesn't feel the way you do, does it? 🙂

Please explain the difference between denying someone the right to marry because of their color and denying someone the right to marry because of their sexuallity.

It is important to remember this:

These characteristics (race, gender, sexuality, disability) are a part of our human subsistence that cannot be easily ignored or tossed aside as something seemingly insignificant. Sexual orientation is different from sexual behavior because it refers to feelings and self-concept. If you truly believe that sexuality (not to be confused with sex) is private and that you never illustrate your sexuality in your everyday life, you should take your blinders off. It's a part of all of us and whether you agrees with its homosexuality's normalcy

 

[TravisT]

Originally posted by: espressoman

Originally posted by: TravisT
[
There is a huge difference, in my opinion, in homosexuality and interracial marriage. Then again, the vast majority of the United States doesn't feel the way you do, does it? 🙂

Please explain the difference between denying someone the right to marry because of their color and denying someone the right to marry because of their sexuallity.

It is important to remember this:

These characteristics (race, gender, sexuality, disability) are a part of our human subsistence that cannot be easily ignored or tossed aside as something seemingly insignificant. Sexual orientation is different from sexual behavior because it refers to feelings and self-concept. If you truly believe that sexuality (not to be confused with sex) is private and that you never illustrate your sexuality in your everyday life, you should take your blinders off. It's a part of all of us and whether you agrees with its homosexuality's normalcy

You may believe that homosexuality is part of someone when they are born. It has yet to be proven and I don't believe it that way. Am I going to tell you that it is always someone's choice that they will be gay? No. But I have heard numerous gay people say that they were raised by a single parent, molested, or raped as a young child. This also does not mean that everyone who is gay has encountered one of those three things. It may not be a full choice, but God does not make mistakes.

That is why race and sexual preference can not be compared. We all know you are either born black, we also have statistics out there showing that childhood encounters affect the way people interact and feel later in life as well. This is not even including the fact that the bible speaks nothing against a race, but speaks blatantly about homosexuality and how Christians should feel about it.

 

[espressoman]

Originally posted by: TravisT

You may believe that homosexuality is part of someone when they are born. It has yet to be proven and I don't believe it that way. Am I going to tell you that it is always someone's choice that they will be gay? No. But I have heard numerous gay people say that they were raised by a single parent, molested, or raped as a young child. This also does not mean that everyone who is gay has encountered one of those three things. It may not be a full choice, but God does not make mistakes.

That is why race and sexual preference can not be compared. We all know you are either born black, we also have statistics out there showing that childhood encounters affect the way people interact and feel later in life as well.

Without understanding the subject, you should not be allowed to make a decision.

This is a very poor arguement. You say that we should deny gay marriages because people choose to be gay, while we can accept interracial marriages because no one chooses to be green.

You ignored my statement:

These characteristics (race, gender, sexuality, disability) are a part of our human subsistence that cannot be easily ignored or tossed aside as something seemingly insignificant. Sexual orientation is different from sexual behavior because it refers to feelings and self-concept. If you truly believe that sexuality (not to be confused with sex) is private and that you never illustrate your sexuality in your everyday life, you should take your blinders off. It's a part of all of us and whether you agrees with its homosexuality's normalcy

So, by your judgement, because you've never been in space, and can't see the world, you can assume that the world is flat? That the earth is at the center of the universe, and the sun rotates around it?

If a tree falls in the woods and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound?

By your judgement, because you've never "seen" a God... is there one?

This statement gets me too:

"But I have heard numerous gay people say that they were raised by a single parent, molested, or raped as a young child. It may not be a full choice, but God does not make mistakes. "

Who are you to argue that God made us? What about the people that don't believe that way? If there is a God, he's made plenty of mistakes (and if you read the Bible it says women were a mistake!).

All I am trying to do is remove you from your un-objective, closed minded way of thought. You'll find that life is much better when you can see the things around you instead of what is just in front of you.

 

[Crimson]

I'm curious if all the people in here who are so 'tolerant' of gays, and supportive of Gay Marriage, support the banning of the 10 commandments from courthouses? After all, how do they HURT you?