How does Anandtech feel about the FCC trying to change the rules of the Internet? (Net Neutrality)

[Puffnstuff]

I guess you haven't been to Texas lately... Expressive express lanes every where.

No I haven't been to TX since '03 but they're here in Jacksonville too with their pay to play plans.

 

[Mai72]

This gif requires more buffering.

That gif will cost you $2.99.

 

[theeedude]

GOP is seeding its own demise. Young people hate it already, and once their senile base croaks, they are toast.

 

[Mai72]

In a perfect world, the FCC is right that we don't need it. However, once you remove the rose-colored glasses and realize that things aren't perfect, it's fairly apparent why we should have these rules.

The job of a business is to make money. A business decision can lose money, but as long as the company makes more than they lose, it's (technically) fine. That concept outlines how a corporation can implement consumer-unfriendly practices and get away with it. They may lose customers, which is a loss, but the money gained is enough to make up for it. In the case of ISPs, the lack of competition in areas combined with how the Internet has become even more necessary over time means that an ISP enjoys even greater consumer retention. Essentially, a customer cannot leave for another institution, as they either don't exist or are largely unfit for today's Internet landscape. (An example would be slow DSL solutions.)

Ultimately, what I'm trying to say is that these corporations are not working for you. As long as they continue to make money through their legal practices, as shady as they may seem, they'll continue to do it. You can't trust a business to also consider the consumer's interest, which is why we have consumer protection laws in various other areas. I get the feeling like some would consider these remarks as "an attack on Capitalism" or the "thoughts of a socialist", but I challenge those people to prove it wrong.

I remember the issue between Comcast and Netflix a few years ago quite vividly. I had both services at the time, and what I think some don't realize is that the feud affected FAR more than just Netflix streaming. Any traffic that routed through that same overloaded hub saw serious slowdowns, and it made the Internet far less usable during the evening time. I remember the day they cleared it up, and it felt like I could actually use the Internet again! Did Comcast care that a modest portion of my Internet usage suffered due to their dispute? No. We don't even need to get into how ridiculous Comcast's position was back then either.

Well I blame the consumers.

Do we actually need Netflix? Do we need high speed anything? Smartphones? The answer is no. So, why do we act like we can't do without TV, our smartphones, YT, FB, Amazon, etc...

We are slaves. End of discussion. We should all cancel Comcast. Throw away our smartphones. Stop going online. Let's see how fast Comcast changes their tune. But, that won't happen because we've become slaves to our technology and the big cooperations know it.

 

[Mai72]

GOP is seeding its own demise. Young people hate it already, and once their senile base croaks, they are toast.

Yea, in 20 years.

Do you want to wait 20 years for change?

 

[shortylickens]

3 year old article:


https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...k-neutrality-obsolete/?utm_term=.b79020205b98

I thought it seemed kinda sad but now we're gonna see this all over the web.


Today's article:

http://thehill.com/policy/technology/364933-new-york-ag-to-sue-fcc-over-net-neutrality-repeal

I dont even know if theres precedent for suing the FCC (from a state government) but best of luck to him.
I suspect Trump will probably start threatening New York.

 

[Aikouka]

Well I blame the consumers.

Do we actually need Netflix? Do we need high speed anything? Smartphones? The answer is no. So, why do we act like we can't do without TV, our smartphones, YT, FB, Amazon, etc...

Why are you victim shaming the consumers for using the Internet? Who cares what people use the Internet for whether it's entertainment, education, or both. Arguably, the use of it is completely tangential to this discussion.

 

[Engineer]

Why are you victim shaming the consumers for using the Internet? Who cares what people use the Internet for whether it's entertainment, education, or both. Arguably, the use of it is completely tangential to this discussion.

That's right...the ISP's shouldn't have a right to change the speed or priority since I, the consumer, pay them to delivery whatever content that I desire (as long as it's legal). This double dipping crap needs to be stopped.

 

[Engineer]

http://thehill.com/policy/technology/364933-new-york-ag-to-sue-fcc-over-net-neutrality-repeal

I dont even know if theres precedent for suing the FCC (from a state government) but best of luck to him.
I suspect Trump will probably start threatening New York.

Tennessee sued the FCC when the FCC tried to overrule a state law that Tennessee cities couldn't build municipal networks. The courts sided with Tennessee and said that they could regulate their networks without interference from the FCC.

Not sure if that would be the same in this case but seems very relevant.

 

[Thebobo]

Me do good boss?

 

[Puffnstuff]

Tennessee sued the FCC when the FCC tried to overrule a state law that Tennessee cities couldn't build municipal networks. The courts sided with Tennessee and said that they could regulate their networks without interference from the FCC.

Not sure if that would be the same in this case but seems very relevant.

Just might be with Trumpster and the Republitards in power right now.

 

[outriding]

cannot explain it better than this guy..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H69eCYcDcuQ

 

[Carson Dyle]

Question:

I keep seeing claims made that even if your local ISP (for example, a municipal broadband provider) pledges to remain net-neutral, users could still see the effects from upstream/backbone providers doing throttling.

I'm having a hard time seeing how that would happen. I just don't understand the logic, or what a backbone provider might hope to gain financially. Can anyone give me a scenario where it could happen?

 

[theeedude]

Yea, in 20 years.
Do you want to wait 20 years for change?

20 years is just actuarial decay of Republican party base. Trump is going to accelerate the political change quite a bit.

 

[SMOGZINN]

Question:

I keep seeing claims made that even if your local ISP (for example, a municipal broadband provider) pledges to remain net-neutral, users could still see the effects from upstream/backbone providers doing throttling.

I'm having a hard time seeing how that would happen. I just don't understand the logic, or what a backbone provider might hope to gain financially. Can anyone give me a scenario where it could happen?

The easy answer is that a backbone provider, for example Level 3 Communications, could decide that they are going to throttle or block all of Netflix's traffic unless Netflix pays them bribe money. Your ISP connects to L3C and L3C connects to Netflix so your traffic would be blocked or throttled even if your ISP does nothing.

 

[theeedude]

Write to your state legislators to get them to pass the strictest net neutrality rules with the most severe punishments possible on ISPs for violations.
The preemption thing will sort itself out sooner or later, either in the courts, or when Dems take over. If there is a sword of Damacles hanging over the ISPs at the states, that will guide their behavior.

 

[BurnItDwn]

Republican always trying to Chainsaw gutsfuck my internets.
Repeal of net neutrality is muchly bigly bad.

 

[Carson Dyle]

The easy answer is that a backbone provider, for example Level 3 Communications, could decide that they are going to throttle or block all of Netflix's traffic unless Netflix pays them bribe money. Your ISP connects to L3C and L3C connects to Netflix so your traffic would be blocked or throttled even if your ISP does nothing.

If Level 3 connects Netflix, it's because Netflix is their customer. Why would they do that to their own customer? Doesn't add up. Nor would Level 3 charge ISP's (say Comcast) at the other end of the chain because that would also be screwing their customer.

 

[SMOGZINN]

If Level 3 connects Netflix, it's because Netflix is their customer. Why would they do that to their own customer? Doesn't add up. Nor would Level 3 charge ISP's (say Comcast) at the other end of the chain because that would also be screwing their customer.

Why wouldn't they? There are only 6 tier one providers, and they kind of have Netflix over a barrel. If any of them simply decide to block Netflix's traffic there is literally nothing Netflix can do about it, it just loses all the customers that rely on that provider to get traffic to them.

EDIT: I should also point out that even if Netflix connects directly to Level 3, AT&T (another tier one provider) could decide to block Netflix because it competes with their U-Verse cable TV business, then if you were on a small ISP that relied on AT&T for it's backbone, even though L3C and your ISP did nothing, AT&T could block all your Netflix traffic.

 

[SteveGrabowski]

At least the net neutrality gutting might finally convince the 18-29 demographic to get off their asses and vote in 2018 and 2020.

 

[Ken g6]

http://thehill.com/policy/technology/364933-new-york-ag-to-sue-fcc-over-net-neutrality-repeal

Yep, now the fight moves to the courts. I imagine a smart judge would strike down the move back to an "information service" pretty quickly if any case gets that far. The problem may be getting "standing" - proving this decision has or will hurt someone.

 

[Puffnstuff]

20 years is just actuarial decay of Republican party base. Trump is going to accelerate the political change quite a bit.

He'll probably mail all of them fresh crack cocaine so they can have a white Christmas

 

[Younigue]

Am I wrong in assuming this will motivate the computer savvy to figure out a work around? Or will it be impossible?

 

[Puffnstuff]

Am I wrong in assuming this will motivate the computer savvy to figure out a work around? Or will it be impossible?

Maybe an internet COOP might be able to get around it.

 

[Carson Dyle]

Am I wrong in assuming this will motivate the computer savvy to figure out a work around? Or will it be impossible?

VPNs, perhaps. But my experience with VPNs has not been good. I've never come close to achieving my full connection's bandwidth through a VPN provider, and I've tried several and many different server locations from each of them.