How do you view the government's responsibility?

[Cogman]

As I've been thinking about all the issues with government, and pondering the question "What exactly IS the governments role in our lives?" I've come to be interested in what each of your opinions are.

Here are some of my thoughts on the subject.

When I first approached it, I took the view that government is meant to be as transparent as possible. In my mind, I thought that it was the governments job to step in when my fist made contact with someone else's face, and nothing more. I thought, "Yeah, that sounds about right". But then, I took a step back and said "Well, what about currency, public schooling, or even national highways and the road system?" With such a limited view on government, none of those things would exist.

My next thought was, "Ok, a standard currency is a good thing and really can be done away with, as well public schooling (as messed up as it is) really is better then if there was only a private option, if the private option was all that was available, our illiteracy rates would be dismal." With that realization, I can't argue against taxes to fund these services, after all, you can't do it for nothing.

This is where I really started to question what I believe. If I can support reasonably public schooling as a good thing, and I can support government programs for the benefit of society, Why can't I support things like national health care? The reasons abound why not to support it (in my mind at least) and yet, I feel almost hypocritical not supporting, yet supporting other social government programs.

And if I go so far as to say that National health care isn't a bad thing, what is to say that government intervention in job loss prevention isn't a bad thing as well?

On the one hand, I look at government provided services and honestly, I view them as bloated bureaucratic environments that could be ran so much better if they didn't have to appeal to some 500 sub committees and the entire governmental system trying to move their own agenda through them. And yet, on the other hand, I doubt that a capitalist option would come forward that is able to serve as many people as these services do.

So how do you describe the governments responsibility to its people? At a minimum I think we all can agree that it is to protect the people from internal and external conflict. But what else? Should it be responsible for educating its people, for trying to raise the standard of living. Or should it take a completely hands off approach and let them work it out for themselves (the people)?

In other words, Describe your ideal government's responsibility to its people.

 

[bfdd]

Why do you assume that if all schools were private things would be worse? If it was wide spread and cheap, I don't see how it could be worse.

 

[Cogman]

Originally posted by: bfdd
Why do you assume that if all schools were private things would be worse? If it was wide spread and cheap, I don't see how it could be worse.

How could it be wide spread and cheap? As far as I can tell, any country that doesn't have public schools treats private schooling as something for the top 10% in wealth.

And whats worse, if it was a private thing, there is a large amount of people that would choose not to send their kids to school because they don't want to pay for it.

 

[masteryoda34]

We do have some private schooling in America. Which schools are better: Private and Charter schools or Public schools?

 

[Cogman]

Originally posted by: masteryoda34
We do have some private schooling in America. Which schools are better: Private and Charter schools or Public schools?

Which are available to more people? Private and charter schools or public schools?

Yes, the quality is better, However, most people are unable afford it. Some schooling for all is better then no schooling for most.

 

[masteryoda34]

Originally posted by: Cogman

Originally posted by: masteryoda34
We do have some private schooling in America. Which schools are better: Private and Charter schools or Public schools?

Which are available to more people? Private and charter schools or public schools?

Yes, the quality is better, However, most people are unable afford it. Some schooling for all is better then no schooling for most.

Charter schools are equally affordable to public schools in areas that they are allowed to exist.

 

[nageov3t]

Originally posted by: masteryoda34
We do have some private schooling in America. Which schools are better: Private and Charter schools or Public schools?

private schools have two inherent advantages that public schools don't -- the capacity to be selective (eg: the students dragging down public schools wouldn't get accepted into private schools) and the knowledge that there's a supporting family behind the students (if I took the $10K/year my parents were paying for my high school education and shit on it by getting bad grades, they'd have kicked my ass).

neither would necessarily remain true with private school vouchers.

 

[Cogman]

Originally posted by: masteryoda34

Originally posted by: Cogman

Originally posted by: masteryoda34
We do have some private schooling in America. Which schools are better: Private and Charter schools or Public schools?

Which are available to more people? Private and charter schools or public schools?

Yes, the quality is better, However, most people are unable afford it. Some schooling for all is better then no schooling for most.

Charter schools are equally affordable to public schools in areas that they are allowed to exist.

I'll agree with you there, however, charter schools are really just government funded schools without the government regulation. I would put that under the category of "Public School".

But that is beside the point. What do you view as your ideal government? And with your support for a charter school, could you reasonably argue against the government somehow paying for health care for everyone?

(BTW, these really aren't the issues at hand, I want to know what you believe the government roles are, not get into an argument over public schooling. It is a side topic)

 

[masteryoda34]

Originally posted by: Cogman
But that is beside the point. What do you view as your ideal government? And with your support for a charter school, could you reasonably argue against the government somehow paying for health care for everyone?

(BTW, these really aren't the issues at hand, I want to know what you believe the government roles are, not get into an argument over public schooling. It is a side topic)

Who ever said I supported government funded schooling in the first place?

 

[Cogman]

Originally posted by: masteryoda34

Originally posted by: Cogman
But that is beside the point. What do you view as your ideal government? And with your support for a charter school, could you reasonably argue against the government somehow paying for health care for everyone?

(BTW, these really aren't the issues at hand, I want to know what you believe the government roles are, not get into an argument over public schooling. It is a side topic)

Who ever said I supported government funded schooling in the first place?

You did, when you said you supported charter schools. Guess who funds charter schools.

 

[masteryoda34]

Originally posted by: Cogman

Originally posted by: masteryoda34

Originally posted by: Cogman
But that is beside the point. What do you view as your ideal government? And with your support for a charter school, could you reasonably argue against the government somehow paying for health care for everyone?

(BTW, these really aren't the issues at hand, I want to know what you believe the government roles are, not get into an argument over public schooling. It is a side topic)

Who ever said I supported government funded schooling in the first place?

You did, when you said you supported charter schools. Guess who funds charter schools.

I implied that charter schools are better than public schools. I didn't say that I supported charter schools.

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: masteryoda34

Charter schools are equally affordable to public schools in areas that they are allowed to exist.

selection bias: the parents sending their kids to charter schools care about their kids' education and so their kids do better.

 

[PrinceofWands]

Government exists to protect all citizens. They need protection from outside aggressors and inside abusers. Government is there to facilitate "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness". We need an infrastructure that encourages and allows for those things. Government is a tool and extension of, by, and for the people. Nothing the government does should be above us, or kept from us.

1) Federal government is NOT State or local government. We are NOT a singular nation, but a republic of individual states. We have obviously forgotten that. The federal government should deal directly with only the things that involve other countries or more than one state: international trade, diplomacy, external military, regulation of interstate affairs, interstate transportation, protection of universal rights/liberties, interstate or international crime, etc. Beyond that their role should be merely that of facilitator to assist the states. The states should bear the responsibility for all other governance.

2) The government should have ZERO regulatory authority over moral affairs. No involvement in sex, marriage, religion, philosophy, self-medication, ideology, etc. None. Zero. Ever. Period. The rule of government interference should be 'do whatever you want as long as it doesn't adversely affect another living thing without their consent.

3) The ONLY things that shouldn't be public record are codes, frequencies, lawful troop movements, undercover identities, etc. Absolutely EVERYTHING else the government does should have real time oversight by anyone who chooses to take a look.

4) Politics should be a calling, not a career choice. If you want to be in politics it should be because you want to serve, not because of elite status, income, benefits, or anything else. If you wouldn't do the job for minimum wage or less you have no business taking it for more.

5) Government is NOT a business and should NOT be getting involved in economic affairs. No national bank, no money making ventures, no market involvement, etc. The TOTAL sum of interaction between government and commerce should be:

a) taxation
b) tariffs
c) printing of national currency
d) granting of government contracts
1. for such services as the government is allowed to participate in
2. when such appropriations have been approved by the house
3. after a period of open bidding
4. after impartial review and oversight by an elected citizen watchdog group
e) final neutral arbiter in interstate or international commerce disputes
f) paying wages and benefits to government employees and officials
1. wages of officials should be fixed to a scale tied into median individual income
2. wages of employees should be reasonable but moderate, and subject to review
g) regulation and oversight of business to prevent abuse or exploitation of workers, consumers, or citizens

Money is NOT everything and should not hold the central focus it does in our lives. Except during time of ACTUAL war (not this terror BS) deficit spending should not be allowed. In any year that the US holds a national debt all government expenditures should require a special session of Congress for approval and all government wages should be fixed at a minimum.

6) The 'environment' exists for all mankind and is globally tied. No individual liberty or happiness is possible in a polluted or dangerous environment. Therefore the protection of the environment against pollution or needless destruction is a duty of the government.

7) While not everyone requires education at the same level, a basic education is a societal necessity and therefore falls under the purview of government regulation. However, it is important that this be designed as general education to create functional individuals, and NOT as a method to create future workers or patriotic nationalists. Since people will hold different beliefs in education, some form of voucher method is necessary to allow people to find alternative schooling if the public options aren't acceptable.

8) Health care (especially including mental health care) is a basic necessity of life and therefore is completely within the scope of government control and regulation. Failure of citizens to have access to preventative and emergency care (but NOT cosmetic BS) WILL cause harm to society and other citizens, and must therefore be avoided. This is simply the cost of living in a society and is non-negotiable. There are a number of ways for this to be accomplished (single payer with guaranteed loans, public option, etc), but it must be done. Oh, and insurance is NOT an option.

9) A stable, affordable energy source is essential to a functional nation and to individual happiness. Therefore the government has a role in the creation, oversight, and regulation of a public energy grid.

10) Communication is necessary to individual safety and fulfillment, and therefore a public communication system is required. This should include radio, tv, telephone, and internet communication options for public use. It is NOT the governments role to regulate what goes over these lines of public communication; only that they are available and maintained.

11) Police, fire, and other emergency services. Obviously these are infrastructure requirements and covered under the government umbrella. They need citizen oversight, just like all parts of government, but they're definitely a requirement.

More as I think of them.

 

[masteryoda34]

^ I agree with 1 - 7.

 

[soccerballtux]

Originally posted by: Cogman
As I've been thinking about all the issues with government, and pondering the question "What exactly IS the governments role in our lives?" I've come to be interested in what each of your opinions are.

Here are some of my thoughts on the subject.

When I first approached it, I took the view that government is meant to be as transparent as possible. In my mind, I thought that it was the governments job to step in when my fist made contact with someone else's face, and nothing more. I thought, "Yeah, that sounds about right". But then, I took a step back and said "Well, what about currency, public schooling, or even national highways and the road system?" With such a limited view on government, none of those things would exist.

My next thought was, "Ok, a standard currency is a good thing and really can be done away with, as well public schooling (as messed up as it is) really is better then if there was only a private option, if the private option was all that was available, our illiteracy rates would be dismal." With that realization, I can't argue against taxes to fund these services, after all, you can't do it for nothing.

This is where I really started to question what I believe. If I can support reasonably public schooling as a good thing, and I can support government programs for the benefit of society, Why can't I support things like national health care? The reasons abound why not to support it (in my mind at least) and yet, I feel almost hypocritical not supporting, yet supporting other social government programs.

And if I go so far as to say that National health care isn't a bad thing, what is to say that government intervention in job loss prevention isn't a bad thing as well?

On the one hand, I look at government provided services and honestly, I view them as bloated bureaucratic environments that could be ran so much better if they didn't have to appeal to some 500 sub committees and the entire governmental system trying to move their own agenda through them. And yet, on the other hand, I doubt that a capitalist option would come forward that is able to serve as many people as these services do.

So how do you describe the governments responsibility to its people? At a minimum I think we all can agree that it is to protect the people from internal and external conflict. But what else? Should it be responsible for educating its people, for trying to raise the standard of living. Or should it take a completely hands off approach and let them work it out for themselves (the people)?

In other words, Describe your ideal government's responsibility to its people.

Because government is inefficient. Schooling an example. Go to a voucher system--> won't happen.

Government is not subject to market forces that force your hand into efficiency or death. Power like that corrupts.

 

[PrinceofWands]

Originally posted by: soccerballtux

Originally posted by: Cogman
As I've been thinking about all the issues with government, and pondering the question "What exactly IS the governments role in our lives?" I've come to be interested in what each of your opinions are.

Here are some of my thoughts on the subject.

When I first approached it, I took the view that government is meant to be as transparent as possible. In my mind, I thought that it was the governments job to step in when my fist made contact with someone else's face, and nothing more. I thought, "Yeah, that sounds about right". But then, I took a step back and said "Well, what about currency, public schooling, or even national highways and the road system?" With such a limited view on government, none of those things would exist.

My next thought was, "Ok, a standard currency is a good thing and really can be done away with, as well public schooling (as messed up as it is) really is better then if there was only a private option, if the private option was all that was available, our illiteracy rates would be dismal." With that realization, I can't argue against taxes to fund these services, after all, you can't do it for nothing.

This is where I really started to question what I believe. If I can support reasonably public schooling as a good thing, and I can support government programs for the benefit of society, Why can't I support things like national health care? The reasons abound why not to support it (in my mind at least) and yet, I feel almost hypocritical not supporting, yet supporting other social government programs.

And if I go so far as to say that National health care isn't a bad thing, what is to say that government intervention in job loss prevention isn't a bad thing as well?

On the one hand, I look at government provided services and honestly, I view them as bloated bureaucratic environments that could be ran so much better if they didn't have to appeal to some 500 sub committees and the entire governmental system trying to move their own agenda through them. And yet, on the other hand, I doubt that a capitalist option would come forward that is able to serve as many people as these services do.

So how do you describe the governments responsibility to its people? At a minimum I think we all can agree that it is to protect the people from internal and external conflict. But what else? Should it be responsible for educating its people, for trying to raise the standard of living. Or should it take a completely hands off approach and let them work it out for themselves (the people)?

In other words, Describe your ideal government's responsibility to its people.

Because government is inefficient. Schooling an example. Go to a voucher system--> won't happen.

Government is not subject to market forces that force your hand into efficiency or death. Power like that corrupts.

Unlike unregulated market systems, where the money and power never causes any corruption of corporations or individuals. :roll:

 

[Sclamoz]

A problem with this question IMO is a style of government might do well say here in the United States but would fail miserably in another part of the world due to economic/cultural differences. I think other than saying a governments goal should be to see to the well being and prosperity of the people it represents there might be huge differences depending on the circumstances.

 

[Greenman]

The goal of government should be first and foremost to not fuck anything up. Beyond that it simply needs to get out of the way. Obama could be the most successful prez in history if he took the next three and a half years off.

 

[Freshgeardude]

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
Government exists to protect all citizens. They need protection from outside aggressors and inside abusers. Government is there to facilitate "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness". We need an infrastructure that encourages and allows for those things. Government is a tool and extension of, by, and for the people. Nothing the government does should be above us, or kept from us.

1) Federal government is NOT State or local government. We are NOT a singular nation, but a republic of individual states. We have obviously forgotten that. The federal government should deal directly with only the things that involve other countries or more than one state: international trade, diplomacy, external military, regulation of interstate affairs, interstate transportation, protection of universal rights/liberties, interstate or international crime, etc. Beyond that their role should be merely that of facilitator to assist the states. The states should bear the responsibility for all other governance.

2) The government should have ZERO regulatory authority over moral affairs. No involvement in sex, marriage, religion, philosophy, self-medication, ideology, etc. None. Zero. Ever. Period. The rule of government interference should be 'do whatever you want as long as it doesn't adversely affect another living thing without their consent.

3) The ONLY things that shouldn't be public record are codes, frequencies, lawful troop movements, undercover identities, etc. Absolutely EVERYTHING else the government does should have real time oversight by anyone who chooses to take a look.

4) Politics should be a calling, not a career choice. If you want to be in politics it should be because you want to serve, not because of elite status, income, benefits, or anything else. If you wouldn't do the job for minimum wage or less you have no business taking it for more.

5) Government is NOT a business and should NOT be getting involved in economic affairs. No national bank, no money making ventures, no market involvement, etc. The TOTAL sum of interaction between government and commerce should be:

a) taxation
b) tariffs
c) printing of national currency
d) granting of government contracts
1. for such services as the government is allowed to participate in
2. when such appropriations have been approved by the house
3. after a period of open bidding
4. after impartial review and oversight by an elected citizen watchdog group
e) final neutral arbiter in interstate or international commerce disputes
f) paying wages and benefits to government employees and officials
1. wages of officials should be fixed to a scale tied into median individual income
2. wages of employees should be reasonable but moderate, and subject to review
g) regulation and oversight of business to prevent abuse or exploitation of workers, consumers, or citizens

Money is NOT everything and should not hold the central focus it does in our lives. Except during time of ACTUAL war (not this terror BS) deficit spending should not be allowed. In any year that the US holds a national debt all government expenditures should require a special session of Congress for approval and all government wages should be fixed at a minimum.

6) The 'environment' exists for all mankind and is globally tied. No individual liberty or happiness is possible in a polluted or dangerous environment. Therefore the protection of the environment against pollution or needless destruction is a duty of the government.

7) While not everyone requires education at the same level, a basic education is a societal necessity and therefore falls under the purview of government regulation. However, it is important that this be designed as general education to create functional individuals, and NOT as a method to create future workers or patriotic nationalists. Since people will hold different beliefs in education, some form of voucher method is necessary to allow people to find alternative schooling if the public options aren't acceptable.

8) Health care (especially including mental health care) is a basic necessity of life and therefore is completely within the scope of government control and regulation. Failure of citizens to have access to preventative and emergency care (but NOT cosmetic BS) WILL cause harm to society and other citizens, and must therefore be avoided. This is simply the cost of living in a society and is non-negotiable. There are a number of ways for this to be accomplished (single payer with guaranteed loans, public option, etc), but it must be done. Oh, and insurance is NOT an option.

9) A stable, affordable energy source is essential to a functional nation and to individual happiness. Therefore the government has a role in the creation, oversight, and regulation of a public energy grid.

10) Communication is necessary to individual safety and fulfillment, and therefore a public communication system is required. This should include radio, tv, telephone, and internet communication options for public use. It is NOT the governments role to regulate what goes over these lines of public communication; only that they are available and maintained.

11) Police, fire, and other emergency services. Obviously these are infrastructure requirements and covered under the government umbrella. They need citizen oversight, just like all parts of government, but they're definitely a requirement.

More as I think of them.

Well put together, agree on every point but number 8.

government shouldn't be paying out to lazy, fat (like cant do any work fat, not like oh hey 40-50 lbs over normal weight), smokers, intentional drug users, etc.

we also have companies which cover the hard working everyday citizens. except for small businesses which cant cover for their employees, I see no where else a person "deserves" health care.




P.S. I was looking around the forum to find some articles on abuse of government power for my debate tomorrow as an Anti-federalist (support a weaker central government, apposed to federalists which are for the constitution and strong central government) and I really like your post and plan to use some of your points.

(no its not hw or anything worth a grade, I already have enough, but just to make sure i have more than enough cause if we win the debate, we get a pizza party )

 

[herm0016]

# 1 is the most important on your list. most of the rest of it should be covered at the state level.

 

[PrinceofWands]

Originally posted by: Freshgeardude

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
Government exists to protect all citizens. They need protection from outside aggressors and inside abusers. Government is there to facilitate "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness". We need an infrastructure that encourages and allows for those things. Government is a tool and extension of, by, and for the people. Nothing the government does should be above us, or kept from us.

1) Federal government is NOT State or local government. We are NOT a singular nation, but a republic of individual states. We have obviously forgotten that. The federal government should deal directly with only the things that involve other countries or more than one state: international trade, diplomacy, external military, regulation of interstate affairs, interstate transportation, protection of universal rights/liberties, interstate or international crime, etc. Beyond that their role should be merely that of facilitator to assist the states. The states should bear the responsibility for all other governance.

2) The government should have ZERO regulatory authority over moral affairs. No involvement in sex, marriage, religion, philosophy, self-medication, ideology, etc. None. Zero. Ever. Period. The rule of government interference should be 'do whatever you want as long as it doesn't adversely affect another living thing without their consent.

3) The ONLY things that shouldn't be public record are codes, frequencies, lawful troop movements, undercover identities, etc. Absolutely EVERYTHING else the government does should have real time oversight by anyone who chooses to take a look.

4) Politics should be a calling, not a career choice. If you want to be in politics it should be because you want to serve, not because of elite status, income, benefits, or anything else. If you wouldn't do the job for minimum wage or less you have no business taking it for more.

5) Government is NOT a business and should NOT be getting involved in economic affairs. No national bank, no money making ventures, no market involvement, etc. The TOTAL sum of interaction between government and commerce should be:

a) taxation
b) tariffs
c) printing of national currency
d) granting of government contracts
1. for such services as the government is allowed to participate in
2. when such appropriations have been approved by the house
3. after a period of open bidding
4. after impartial review and oversight by an elected citizen watchdog group
e) final neutral arbiter in interstate or international commerce disputes
f) paying wages and benefits to government employees and officials
1. wages of officials should be fixed to a scale tied into median individual income
2. wages of employees should be reasonable but moderate, and subject to review
g) regulation and oversight of business to prevent abuse or exploitation of workers, consumers, or citizens

Money is NOT everything and should not hold the central focus it does in our lives. Except during time of ACTUAL war (not this terror BS) deficit spending should not be allowed. In any year that the US holds a national debt all government expenditures should require a special session of Congress for approval and all government wages should be fixed at a minimum.

6) The 'environment' exists for all mankind and is globally tied. No individual liberty or happiness is possible in a polluted or dangerous environment. Therefore the protection of the environment against pollution or needless destruction is a duty of the government.

7) While not everyone requires education at the same level, a basic education is a societal necessity and therefore falls under the purview of government regulation. However, it is important that this be designed as general education to create functional individuals, and NOT as a method to create future workers or patriotic nationalists. Since people will hold different beliefs in education, some form of voucher method is necessary to allow people to find alternative schooling if the public options aren't acceptable.

8) Health care (especially including mental health care) is a basic necessity of life and therefore is completely within the scope of government control and regulation. Failure of citizens to have access to preventative and emergency care (but NOT cosmetic BS) WILL cause harm to society and other citizens, and must therefore be avoided. This is simply the cost of living in a society and is non-negotiable. There are a number of ways for this to be accomplished (single payer with guaranteed loans, public option, etc), but it must be done. Oh, and insurance is NOT an option.

9) A stable, affordable energy source is essential to a functional nation and to individual happiness. Therefore the government has a role in the creation, oversight, and regulation of a public energy grid.

10) Communication is necessary to individual safety and fulfillment, and therefore a public communication system is required. This should include radio, tv, telephone, and internet communication options for public use. It is NOT the governments role to regulate what goes over these lines of public communication; only that they are available and maintained.

11) Police, fire, and other emergency services. Obviously these are infrastructure requirements and covered under the government umbrella. They need citizen oversight, just like all parts of government, but they're definitely a requirement.

More as I think of them.

Well put together, agree on every point but number 8.

government shouldn't be paying out to lazy, fat (like cant do any work fat, not like oh hey 40-50 lbs over normal weight), smokers, intentional drug users, etc.

we also have companies which cover the hard working everyday citizens. except for small businesses which cant cover for their employees, I see no where else a person "deserves" health care.




P.S. I was looking around the forum to find some articles on abuse of government power for my debate tomorrow as an Anti-federalist (support a weaker central government, apposed to federalists which are for the constitution and strong central government) and I really like your post and plan to use some of your points.

(no its not hw or anything worth a grade, I already have enough, but just to make sure i have more than enough cause if we win the debate, we get a pizza party )

The issue is that if they don't up front, they will on the back end.

If there aren't healthcare options people will just go to the ER and default on the payment, and everyone will pay for it in the end.

If people have no hope of healthcare they'll do whatever it takes to obtain the money they need for their families, and you'll have crime, etc, which will cost more in law enforcement and jails, and so on and leave you paying in the end.

If you go with insurance they'll charge everyone more to cover the people you talk about, and so you'll pay in the end.

No matter what answer you give, you're still going to pay for those people. Period. The only difference is rather you pay for their incarceration, their bankruptcy, or their health.

 

[PrinceofWands]

Originally posted by: herm0016
# 1 is the most important on your list. most of the rest of it should be covered at the state level.

Agreed. I was just pointing out things that governments at some level should be covering.

 

[Uhtrinity]

Originally posted by: loki8481

Originally posted by: masteryoda34
We do have some private schooling in America. Which schools are better: Private and Charter schools or Public schools?

private schools have two inherent advantages that public schools don't -- the capacity to be selective (eg: the students dragging down public schools wouldn't get accepted into private schools) and the knowledge that there's a supporting family behind the students (if I took the $10K/year my parents were paying for my high school education and shit on it by getting bad grades, they'd have kicked my ass).

neither would necessarily remain true with private school vouchers.

Some Charter Schools are paid for with public money, and therefore are public schools. I work at one of these. Our school is also becoming a magnet school for special needs kids. It is a myth that charter schools only accept the best kids.

 

[Uhtrinity]

Originally posted by: ElFenix

Originally posted by: masteryoda34

Charter schools are equally affordable to public schools in areas that they are allowed to exist.

selection bias: the parents sending their kids to charter schools care about their kids' education and so their kids do better.

That is only a part of the equation. The staff usually care more, add those two then you typically have students that care more. Charter schools also have the flexibility to change what doesn't work and keep what does without wading through the bureaucracy that regular school districts deal with. Our school is doing remarkably well and we have have a significantly higher ratio of special needs kids than our local public school district.

 

[waggy]

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
Government exists to protect all citizens. They need protection from outside aggressors and inside abusers. Government is there to facilitate "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness". We need an infrastructure that encourages and allows for those things. Government is a tool and extension of, by, and for the people. Nothing the government does should be above us, or kept from us.

1) Federal government is NOT State or local government. We are NOT a singular nation, but a republic of individual states. We have obviously forgotten that. The federal government should deal directly with only the things that involve other countries or more than one state: international trade, diplomacy, external military, regulation of interstate affairs, interstate transportation, protection of universal rights/liberties, interstate or international crime, etc. Beyond that their role should be merely that of facilitator to assist the states. The states should bear the responsibility for all other governance.

2) The government should have ZERO regulatory authority over moral affairs. No involvement in sex, marriage, religion, philosophy, self-medication, ideology, etc. None. Zero. Ever. Period. The rule of government interference should be 'do whatever you want as long as it doesn't adversely affect another living thing without their consent.

3) The ONLY things that shouldn't be public record are codes, frequencies, lawful troop movements, undercover identities, etc. Absolutely EVERYTHING else the government does should have real time oversight by anyone who chooses to take a look.

4) Politics should be a calling, not a career choice. If you want to be in politics it should be because you want to serve, not because of elite status, income, benefits, or anything else. If you wouldn't do the job for minimum wage or less you have no business taking it for more.

5) Government is NOT a business and should NOT be getting involved in economic affairs. No national bank, no money making ventures, no market involvement, etc. The TOTAL sum of interaction between government and commerce should be:

a) taxation
b) tariffs
c) printing of national currency
d) granting of government contracts
1. for such services as the government is allowed to participate in
2. when such appropriations have been approved by the house
3. after a period of open bidding
4. after impartial review and oversight by an elected citizen watchdog group
e) final neutral arbiter in interstate or international commerce disputes
f) paying wages and benefits to government employees and officials
1. wages of officials should be fixed to a scale tied into median individual income
2. wages of employees should be reasonable but moderate, and subject to review
g) regulation and oversight of business to prevent abuse or exploitation of workers, consumers, or citizens

Money is NOT everything and should not hold the central focus it does in our lives. Except during time of ACTUAL war (not this terror BS) deficit spending should not be allowed. In any year that the US holds a national debt all government expenditures should require a special session of Congress for approval and all government wages should be fixed at a minimum.

6) The 'environment' exists for all mankind and is globally tied. No individual liberty or happiness is possible in a polluted or dangerous environment. Therefore the protection of the environment against pollution or needless destruction is a duty of the government.

7) While not everyone requires education at the same level, a basic education is a societal necessity and therefore falls under the purview of government regulation. However, it is important that this be designed as general education to create functional individuals, and NOT as a method to create future workers or patriotic nationalists. Since people will hold different beliefs in education, some form of voucher method is necessary to allow people to find alternative schooling if the public options aren't acceptable.

8) Health care (especially including mental health care) is a basic necessity of life and therefore is completely within the scope of government control and regulation. Failure of citizens to have access to preventative and emergency care (but NOT cosmetic BS) WILL cause harm to society and other citizens, and must therefore be avoided. This is simply the cost of living in a society and is non-negotiable. There are a number of ways for this to be accomplished (single payer with guaranteed loans, public option, etc), but it must be done. Oh, and insurance is NOT an option.

9) A stable, affordable energy source is essential to a functional nation and to individual happiness. Therefore the government has a role in the creation, oversight, and regulation of a public energy grid.

10) Communication is necessary to individual safety and fulfillment, and therefore a public communication system is required. This should include radio, tv, telephone, and internet communication options for public use. It is NOT the governments role to regulate what goes over these lines of public communication; only that they are available and maintained.

11) Police, fire, and other emergency services. Obviously these are infrastructure requirements and covered under the government umbrella. They need citizen oversight, just like all parts of government, but they're definitely a requirement.

More as I think of them.

1-7 i agree with. well except for the "self-medication" that is a debatable topic in itself. but otherwise its spot on.

8) i agree with also. trouble is as others say what about people who abuse themselves such as drug users etc?


9-11) at first i was going to disagree. then i actually sat and thought about it (sat on my throne..lol) i have to agree. TV (a basic set of channels), Phone (limited calling), internet (kinda needed today for school) and of course emergancy service's are needed.

Princewands that was a good post. This is what i expect from the federal Goverment.