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How do you see the culture war playing out in America?

Let's put another way.

In his book, James Davison Hunter defines "culture wars" as "the struggle to define America".

He describes this polarity as impulse towards Progressisism and the impulse towards orthodoxy.

Those inclined toward Progressivism, be they Catholic, Jew, Protestant, etc., believe that morality (and hence politics) should be informed by facts and experience that we learn as we travel through life. Morality is subjective to the times in which we live. The only ultimate truth we can know is that which we define for ourselves.

Those inclined toward Orthodoxy, on the other hand, be they Secular, Protestant, Jewish, etc., believe that morality (and hence politics) is not only definable and unchanging, it is external and transcendent, as explained by the revelation of God in the Bible. To claim that morality can be 'decided' by mortals is laughable.

Those who support orthodoxy won a battle in the last election (the legalization of homosexual marriage was rejected in 11 states), but who will win the war?
 
It's 10 steps forward 1 step back for progressives. Today's mainstream conservatives take as a given all the things that progressives instituted in the 20th century. Civil rights, social security, medicare, women's rights, etc.
 
Originally posted by: Riprorin
Are we going to go the way of Europe or will the traditionalists prevail?

Thoughts?
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I thought the Religious Radical Right was against drugs??? Seems they are doing a lot of it since the Election. 😕
 
Originally posted by: Riprorin
Originally posted by: Infohawk
Traditionalists? I think reactionaries and zealots are more like it.
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How's that?
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If you were following American tradition, you'd be a little more open-minded and progressive. Moreover most of the fervent people on the right side of the culture war are religious zealots. Finally, reactionaries is more appropriate because you react against established changes to go back to your vision of a world that never existed.

On the global level, you will lose the culture wars. However, you may be successful in bringing down the USA.
 
Originally posted by: SuperTool
It's 10 steps forward 1 step back for progressives. Today's mainstream conservatives take as a given all the things that progressives instituted in the 20th century. Civil rights, social security, medicare, women's rights, etc.
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Basically that is it. Absolute values come and go with the times and gods. The only eternal truth is that what a man may think is true today is and was always the truth.
 
Originally posted by: Infohawk
Originally posted by: Riprorin
Originally posted by: Infohawk
Traditionalists? I think reactionaries and zealots are more like it.
Click to expand...

How's that?
Click to expand...

If you were following American tradition, you'd be a little more open-minded and progressive. Moreover most of the fervent people on the right side of the culture war are religious zealots. Finally, reactionaries is more appropriate because you react against established changes to go back to your vision of a world that never existed.

On the global level, you will lose the culture wars. However, you may be successful in bringing down the USA.
Click to expand...

Why do you think orthodoxy will bring the US down?
 
the influx of latinos and a growing faith based hispanic community will strenghten "conservative" moral ideals IMHO, or at least put them back into mainstream from their recent decline....however whether or not this will last is beyond my knowledge. Media likes to glorify promiscuity and non committal relationships as well as "alternative" lifestyles....could "Brave New World" be a reality in the not so distant future? sure....will it? only time will tell.
 
Originally posted by: bozack
the influx of latinos and a growing faith based hispanic community will strenghten "conservative" moral ideals IMHO, or at least put them back into mainstream from their recent decline....however whether or not this will last is beyond my knowledge. Media likes to glorify promiscuity and non committal relationships as well as "alternative" lifestyles....could "Brave New World" be a reality in the not so distant future? sure....will it? only time will tell.
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I haven't seen any latinos that are religious the same way born-agains are. As with most catholics, it's more about ritual than reading the bible literally.

And why do you think the media glorifies promiscuity? Because people want it, including your bible-thumping hypocrites. It sells. It's a market economy. Or are you a communist who thinks the media should only play what the government tells it to?

will it?
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That's the whole question... thanks for repeating for everyone.
 
Originally posted by: Riprorin
Let me copy/paste this another way in lieu of an original thought.....

In his book, James Davison Hunter defines "culture wars" as "the struggle to define America".

He describes this polarity as impulse towards Progressisism and the impulse towards orthodoxy.

Those inclined toward Progressivism, be they Catholic, Jew, Protestant, etc., believe that morality (and hence politics) should be informed by facts and experience that we learn as we travel through life. Morality is subjective to the times in which we live. The only ultimate truth we can know is that which we define for ourselves.

Those inclined toward Orthodoxy, on the other hand, be they Secular, Protestant, Jewish, etc., believe that morality (and hence politics) is not only definable and unchanging, it is external and transcendent, as explained by the revelation of God in the Bible. To claim that morality can be 'decided' by mortals is laughable.

Those who support orthodoxy won a battle in the last election (the legalization of homosexual marriage was rejected in 11 states), but who will win the war?
Click to expand...
Are you never going to stop copy/pasting the words and thoughts of others as your own in order to troll the forums? Seriously, it's pathetic.

Now email this guy and tell him you're sorry for being a bad little plagiarist.

 
Originally posted by: bozack
the influx of latinos and a growing faith based hispanic community will strenghten "conservative" moral ideals IMHO, or at least put them back into mainstream from their recent decline....however whether or not this will last is beyond my knowledge. Media likes to glorify promiscuity and non committal relationships as well as "alternative" lifestyles....could "Brave New World" be a reality in the not so distant future? sure....will it? only time will tell.
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You ever see the spanish channels they are alot more promiscuity then english channels.
 
Originally posted by: Fausto
Are you never going to stop copy/pasting the words and thoughts of others as your own in order to troll the forums? Seriously, it's pathetic.

Now email this guy and tell him you're sorry for being a bad little plagiarist.
Click to expand...

Yup, riprorn is the worst kind of internet forum destroyer. His goal is just to bleat. He doesn't care what other people write. In fact, if they do write something, he will just repeat himself and re-crap (as he did in another thread). He's like one of those people that stand screaming on street corners yelling the end of days is coming. It's not about you or about learning, it's about screaming at the top of his lungs and forcing his will on other people.
 
Originally posted by: Infohawk
I haven't seen any latinos that are religious the same way born-agains are. As with most catholics, it's more about ritual than reading the bible literally.

And why do you think the media glorifies promiscuity? Because people want it, including your bible-thumping hypocrites. It sells. It's a market economy. Or are you a communist who thinks the media should only play what the government tells it to?

That's the whole question... thanks for repeating for everyone.
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C'mon Info, contribute something worth while or STFU.

While radicals like "Born agains" are just that, radical...the FACT is that latinos and Hispanics are far more religious than many, if not most cultural groups in the US and their numbers are growing...so while they are not as religious as some, they are most certainly a commuity with a strong sense of faith and they are not ashamed of it as some groups are.

With media and promiscuity personally I wonder just how many people truly "want it" or are they sheep who think they want it because it is all that is on, further more just because it is what is desired does that make it what is "best" for society...

Personally I find these shows that are seen as "popular" which tend to glorify promiscuity only further the ever growing "me me me" mentality of American culture, where people only care about having their Cake and eating it too and little about the well being of their family, friends and community..how many people they can bone and how much stuff/wealth they can amass takes priority over all else....if you think market econ rules should set the bar then that is your business, but personally I would hope stations would have some personal discretion in what they chose to air, unfortunately that doesn't seem to be the case.

And with my last statement you commented on, anyone who makes a definitive statement on the subject is retarded as no one truly knows....hell we could face the apocalypse tommorow and life as we know it could change forever, at best we are only making speculation.
 
We all know what the culture war is here don't we?

James Davison Hunter can just explain it better than I can.

Back to the topic.
 
Originally posted by: Riprorin
Those inclined toward Progressivism, be they Catholic, Jew, Protestant, etc., believe that morality (and hence politics) should be informed by facts and experience that we learn as we travel through life. Morality is subjective to the times in which we live. The only ultimate truth we can know is that which we define for ourselves.

Those inclined toward Orthodoxy, on the other hand, be they Secular, Protestant, Jewish, etc., believe that morality (and hence politics) is not only definable and unchanging, it is external and transcendent, as explained by the revelation of God in the Bible. To claim that morality can be 'decided' by mortals is laughable.
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I don't think it's so simple.

If you believe morals come from the bible (Divine CT) then you think the only thing that decides what is right/wrong is God's say so.

If you believe morals come from experience then you think right/wrong is decided by your say so or societies say so.

These are both conventionalist theories and they are somewhat similar since they believe ethical truths come from someones say so. The only difference is whose say so.

The other two main theories are subjectivism and realism.

Subjectivism says there are no ethical truths while realism says there are ethical truths that are independent of anyones say so.

There are some big problems with the DCT. One is which God do we believe, since there are different Gods with differing commands. The main one is this; if something is wrong only because God says so then right/wrong is chosen abitrarily. This means that anything at all would be right if God says so. Or anything would be wrong if God says so. So if God said slavery is permisable then slavery is right. Or if God said helping sick people is bad then giving a sick child medicine is wrong.

If you argue that God would not permit slavery because slavery is wrong, then you are violating the DCT, since only GOD says what is right/wrong. Nothing can be right/wrong independent of his say so. The DCT says actions are not inherently right or wrong, they only become right/wrong after God says so.

To me there are some things that are inherently wrong/right, no matter what a particular society or God says.

So where do ethical realists fit into this culture war?
 
Originally posted by: bozack
Originally posted by: Infohawk
I haven't seen any latinos that are religious the same way born-agains are. As with most catholics, it's more about ritual than reading the bible literally.

And why do you think the media glorifies promiscuity? Because people want it, including your bible-thumping hypocrites. It sells. It's a market economy. Or are you a communist who thinks the media should only play what the government tells it to?

That's the whole question... thanks for repeating for everyone.
Click to expand...

C'mon Info, contribute something worth while or STFU.

While radicals like "Born agains" are just that, radical...the FACT is that latinos and Hispanics are far more religious than many, if not most cultural groups in the US and their numbers are growing...so while they are not as religious as some, they are most certainly a commuity with a strong sense of faith and they are not ashamed of it as some groups are.

With media and promiscuity personally I wonder just how many people truly "want it" or are they sheep who think they want it because it is all that is on, further more just because it is what is desired does that make it what is "best" for society...

Personally I find these shows that are seen as "popular" which tend to glorify promiscuity only further the ever growing "me me me" mentality of American culture, where people only care about having their Cake and eating it too and little about the well being of their family, friends and community..how many people they can bone and how much stuff/wealth they can amass takes priority over all else....if you think market econ rules should set the bar then that is your business, but personally I would hope stations would have some personal discretion in what they chose to air, unfortunately that doesn't seem to be the case.

And with my last statement you commented on, anyone who makes a definitive statement on the subject is retarded as no one truly knows....hell we could face the apocalypse tommorow and life as we know it could change forever, at best we are only making speculation.
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Ah, so said from the pulpit, Preacher Bozack.

 
Originally posted by: Riprorin
We all know what the culture war is here don't we?

James Davison Hunter can just explain it better than I can.

Back to the topic.
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What topic? You're just trolling regarding a subject you cannot back up on your own. When pressed, you pull more stuff out of other people's asses. You went from a nonbinding resolution on the BSA to fscking NAMBLA in three posts in another thread.

 
Originally posted by: bozack
While radicals like "Born agains" are just that, radical...the FACT is that latinos and Hispanics are far more religious than many, if not most cultural groups in the US and their numbers are growing...so while they are not as religious as some, they are most certainly a commuity with a strong sense of faith and they are not ashamed of it as some groups are.
Click to expand...

Again, their version of faith is differnt than protestants. It's not the kind that calls to complain when there's buxom women on television.

With media and promiscuity personally I wonder just how many people truly "want it" or are they sheep who think they want it because it is all that is on, further more just because it is what is desired does that make it what is "best" for society...
Click to expand...

I guess you don't have faith in the market economy.
 
Originally posted by: Spencer278

You ever see the spanish channels they are alot more promiscuity then english channels.
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sorry don't watch Spanish channels as I cannot understand Spanish, but are you sure they are showing "promiscuity" or just voluptuous women in tight outfits?

When talking about promiscuity I am referring to programming such as "sex and the city" where you have women and or men having multiple sexual partners with little to no relationships and no remorse in one night stand situations. Showing big breasted women in small outfits might be "provocative" but as long as your not showing people cheating on their significant others or spouses and then glorifying it you are talking about a whole different ballgame.
 
Originally posted by: bozack

sorry don't watch Spanish channels as I cannot understand Spanish
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That's your problem isn't it? You don't really know much about their culture or religion... If you did, you'd understand it's a different brand of religion and culture and is not going to help the red-state mentality with anything.
 
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