How Do You Secure The Borders?

[Orignal Earl]

Not sure where that reference came from but I recently learned from a Mormon friend about just how much money and effort goes into sponsoring education in places like India and Africa microloan programs for women in Africa that have the loan payed forward instead of back. Real life programs that are without any religious requirements. Just simple Christian charity work that members donate money, time, and expertise to provide.



I thought they were pretty impressive.

There are millions of decent Mormons, I was trying to remind pisa that most followers of his religion are decent

 

[Orignal Earl]

We should carve out a nation for them in the Middle East and watch them flourish.

Just like Muslims do in America

 

[Londo_Jowo]

I all good with securing the northern border right after the CR* Pipeline (Winnipeg,Manitoba to Grand Forks, ND) is built.

* Crown Royal

 

[rudder]

Simple you make it a 250k fine and mandatory 10 year prison sentence for anyone caught employing illegals.

Problem solved.

This or something similar.

The border is fairly well protected. Motion sensors, night vision, interdiction... it is all in place. There are just too many illegals crossing because there is very little chance of being prosecuted and/or deported once in the U.S... not to mention the current administrations attitude toward law breakers.

 

[Orignal Earl]

I all good with securing the northern border right after the CR* Pipeline (Winnipeg,Manitoba to Grand Forks, ND) is built.

* Crown Royal

The northern border is too secure, once upon a time we were proud of how unsecured it was
Pre 911

 

[davmat787]

The northern border is too secure, once upon a time we were proud of how unsecured it was
Pre 911

If Canada was faced with a proportionate amount of illegal immigration that the U.S. has how would your opinion on border security and immigration policy change, if at all?

 

[chucky2]

No, I just think debating a position only an extremely small set of people have is pointless. When people who actually have influence over policy start making such claims then it will make sense to address their proposals.

As it stands now, discussing open borders as a policy is like talking about improving border security with forum posters who advocate using alligators and lasers

I think you really underestimate the amount of people that want to drastically expand immigration into the US (effectively Open Borders). For them anyone that wants in short of a serious criminal record should be let in. To just dismiss them out of hand as if they're some small fringe % of the voting electorate that has no effect on the attitudes of the rest of the electorate would be improper IMO.

 

[GagHalfrunt]

You don't need a fence or a wall or drones or dogs or vigilantes. You need to make it illegal to hire aliens. Not just slap on the wrist illegal, but we'll take your business and throw you in jail if you use undocumented workers illegal. You need to make it impossible to get schooling or medical care or government handouts while an alien, You need to put the aliens that are in found in ankle chains and force them to shuffle back across the border. You do that and there could be an unguarded highway running from Mexico City to Texas and the aliens wouldn't use it because there would be no pot of gold at the end of it for them. It's why nobody breaks into Albania. But as long as we create such a nurturing environment, as long as we offer aliens free handouts, schooling, food, clothes and healthcare a 600 foot tall wall manned by robo-drones won't keep them out.

 

[Svnla]

Read this and see the excuses for ILLEGALS = https://www.facebook.com/Being.Lati...04744814/10154335636194815/?type=1&permPage=1

So Billy Bob and his wife made meth and sold them for money. Now they are about to go to jail and their two kids will be in foster home. They never used meth or were violence people. So it is ok to give them break so their family will not be broken up? Or if you work hard for years and are still poor, is it ok to rob others and banks/financial institutions?

Goodness, you can not just pick and choose which law/regulation you like to follow and blow off the ones you do not like.

 

[Nebor]

You don't need a fence or a wall or drones or dogs or vigilantes. You need to make it illegal to hire aliens. Not just slap on the wrist illegal, but we'll take your business and throw you in jail if you use undocumented workers illegal. You need to make it impossible to get schooling or medical care or government handouts while an alien, You need to put the aliens that are in found in ankle chains and force them to shuffle back across the border. You do that and there could be an unguarded highway running from Mexico City to Texas and the aliens wouldn't use it because there would be no pot of gold at the end of it for them. It's why nobody breaks into Albania. But as long as we create such a nurturing environment, as long as we offer aliens free handouts, schooling, food, clothes and healthcare a 600 foot tall wall manned by robo-drones won't keep them out.

I think you're almost entirely right. But we still need physical border security in order to keep out those entering the country for non-economic reasons.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

It is baffling to me how Mormons can simultaneously believe their nonsense Joseph Smith story and be the best people I've ever met. I'm generally a militant atheist, but Mormons just seem to do everything right. They work hard, do important jobs, help those in need, stay married, and raise large amounts of well balanced kids. We should carve out a nation for them in the Middle East and watch them flourish.

You're right. Mormons are even kind and sweet when they do something wrong, like baptize non Christians or Mormons after death. Its nice that they care for everybody even if it could be viewed as offensive.

 

[davmat787]

I think you're almost entirely right. But we still need physical border security in order to keep out those entering the country for non-economic reasons.

Agreed. Really a multi pronged approach is needed that simultaneously:

1) Makes employing illegals so untenable that no rational business would consider doing so AND make checking employment eligibility easy, free, and electronic.

2) A complete overhaul and streamlining of our legal immigration policy that favors a diverse pool of skilled immigrants capable of sustaining themselves and dependents. Refugees are a separate policy.

3) Finally deal with the current illegal immigration population via lifetime green cards, revocable with a convicted felony. Dependents born on U.S. soil gain full citizenship.

4) Full federal funding to secure the entire southern border, this does not necessarily require a wall or fence for every mile. Interim border security can be provided by respective state's national guard ranks.

A comprehensive bill enacting and funding all of these aspects simultaneously is key to avoid partisan gridlock I think.

There is nothing xenophobic or racist in favoring a secure border, almost every other country does so along with much stricter legal immigration policies.

 

[ivwshane]

I think you really underestimate the amount of people that want to drastically expand immigration into the US (effectively Open Borders). For them anyone that wants in short of a serious criminal record should be let in. To just dismiss them out of hand as if they're some small fringe % of the voting electorate that has no effect on the attitudes of the rest of the electorate would be improper IMO.

I've been asking you who has this opinion and the best you could come up with is are some forum posters. You'll have to do better than that to convince me that the open borders sentiment exists in any meaningful way.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Agreed. Really a multi pronged approach is needed that simultaneously:

1) Makes employing illegals so untenable that no rational business would consider doing so AND make checking employment eligibility easy, free, and electronic.

2) A complete overhaul and streamlining of our legal immigration policy that favors a diverse pool of skilled immigrants capable of sustaining themselves and dependents. Refugees are a separate policy.

3) Finally deal with the current illegal immigration population via lifetime green cards, revocable with a convicted felony. Dependents born on U.S. soil gain full citizenship.

4) Full federal funding to secure the entire southern border, this does not necessarily require a wall or fence for every mile. Interim border security can be provided by respective state's national guard ranks.

A comprehensive bill enacting and funding all of these aspects simultaneously is key to avoid partisan gridlock I think.

There is nothing xenophobic or racist in favoring a secure border, almost every other country does so along with much stricter legal immigration policies.

This is today's comment about what irritates me so much. We all know the above steps are the appropriate thing to do. Super conservatives may want easier business penalties and stronger enforcement, super liberals may want full citizenship instead of permanent green cards but regardless its a sensible way to tackle the problem and a fair compromise on conservative or liberal views. Why is it so damn hard to get politicians to make this happen?

 

[davmat787]

This is today's comment about what irritates me so much. We all know the above steps are the appropriate thing to do. Super conservatives may want easier business penalties and stronger enforcement, super liberals may want full citizenship instead of permanent green cards but regardless its a sensible way to tackle the problem and a fair compromise on conservative or liberal views. Why is it so damn hard to get politicians to make this happen?

Most likely entrenched special interests, fear of backlash, fear of compromise, or flat out incompetence that impairs the ability to rationally assess the problem.

 

[Nebor]

Agreed. Really a multi pronged approach is needed that simultaneously:

1) Makes employing illegals so untenable that no rational business would consider doing so AND make checking employment eligibility easy, free, and electronic.

2) A complete overhaul and streamlining of our legal immigration policy that favors a diverse pool of skilled immigrants capable of sustaining themselves and dependents. Refugees are a separate policy.

3) Finally deal with the current illegal immigration population via lifetime green cards, revocable with a convicted felony. Dependents born on U.S. soil gain full citizenship.

4) Full federal funding to secure the entire southern border, this does not necessarily require a wall or fence for every mile. Interim border security can be provided by respective state's national guard ranks.

A comprehensive bill enacting and funding all of these aspects simultaneously is key to avoid partisan gridlock I think.

There is nothing xenophobic or racist in favoring a secure border, almost every other country does so along with much stricter legal immigration policies.

Dead on. Anyone that opposes these kinds of common sense changes is either benefiting economically or politically from the current illegal immigration status quo.

 

[chucky2]

I've been asking you who has this opinion and the best you could come up with is are some forum posters. You'll have to do better than that to convince me that the open borders sentiment exists in any meaningful way.

To be frank, I think you're being deliberately obtuse here on your lack of knowledge of these previous threads and posters (along with seemingly never having read any Facebook or other internet source articles or especially the comments sections). But since you keep asking...

...it was Nick's (aka eskimospy) thread where we last discussed this (as an example in that thread, not the main thread topic) and I'm quite sure he had at least one supporter. That's two main posters in P&N, at the minimum, and in reality it's more because ad I've said, we've had these threads many times. Maybe do a search for illegals and enjoy the stances...

 

[Fenixgoon]

Dead on. Anyone that opposes these kinds of common sense changes is either benefiting economically or politically from the current illegal immigration status quo.

the only issue i have with that is that even issuing green cards to all currently residing illegals is still rewarding bad behavior.

it would send the message that if you just keep crossing the border, eventually there will be so many people that it's impractical to deport them all, and the govt will eventually cave into giving green cards (again).

 

[davmat787]

the only issue i have with that is that even issuing green cards to all currently residing illegals is still rewarding bad behavior.

it would send the message that if you just keep crossing the border, eventually there will be so many people that it's impractical to deport them all, and the govt will eventually cave into giving green cards (again).

Which is why when I suggested the lifetime green card (revocable via felony conviction and court deportation order) that the other 3 items (border security, employment penalties, and legal immigration reform) should all be part of a single comprehensive bill that deals with all four facets of the problem simultaneously.

I'm open to better ideas...

 

[Jaepheth]

I know a rather handsome mid level programmer named Jack who can secure the borderlands

 

[maluckey]

Which is why when I suggested the lifetime green card (revocable via felony conviction and court deportation order) that the other 3 items (border security, employment penalties, and legal immigration reform) should all be part of a single comprehensive bill that deals with all four facets of the problem simultaneously.

I'm open to better ideas...

Brilliant! No, no, no...since that's already the law. The laws as they stand are pretty strict. Unfortunately nobody wants to be the one to enforce what has already been put forth as the Law of the land.

8 U.S. Code § 1182 is pretty clear as to who is inadmissible. If you didn't come here AFTER being approved to live here, you are inadmissible. And if you come in as IWI you're foever banned.

Further, citizenship under jus solis has already been determined to mean that the subject must submit them selves to all US laws. That's why diplomats kids aren't US citizens (not 100 percent subject to the law). If your first act in the United States is to NOT follow the law, you have made the choice that not ALL laws apply, and your kids should not be a citizen, and you should NEVER be allowed to stay,

In U.S. v. Wong Kim Ark it was pretty clear that illegal aliens did not have US citizen kids.

14th amendment ONLY applies to legal residents and certain legal aliens. This did NOT include "children of foreign sovereigns or their ministers, or born on foreign public ships, or of enemies within and during a hostile occupation of part of our territory, and with the single additional exception of children of members of the Indian tribes owing direct allegiance to their several tribes"

ML

 

[Orignal Earl]

If Canada was faced with a proportionate amount of illegal immigration that the U.S. has how would your opinion on border security and immigration policy change, if at all?

Did you figure out my opinion on border security and immigration policy from my post?
I can't see how you did.

If millions of Americans started to try and escape into Canada by running the border, would I support building a wall?
No, that's crazy

I'm sure we could work something out

 

[WhipperSnapper]

You're right. Mormons are even kind and sweet when they do something wrong, like baptize non Christians or Mormons after death. Its nice that they care for everybody even if it could be viewed as offensive.

...when you have magical underwear...

 

[ivwshane]

To be frank, I think you're being deliberately obtuse here on your lack of knowledge of these previous threads and posters (along with seemingly never having read any Facebook or other internet source articles or especially the comments sections). But since you keep asking...

...it was Nick's (aka eskimospy) thread where we last discussed this (as an example in that thread, not the main thread topic) and I'm quite sure he had at least one supporter. That's two main posters in P&N, at the minimum, and in reality it's more because ad I've said, we've had these threads many times. Maybe do a search for illegals and enjoy the stances...

You don't seem to be getting it. Forum posters, people who comment on articles, and Facebook users means jack shit unless there is some sort of organized movement or a politician with some sort of power to enact change, it doesn't really matter what some anonymous forum poster thinks.

 

[Chaotic0ne]

First thing you need to do is attack the ones employing them with laws and draconian fines. 2nd thing you need to do is offer some sort of monetary incentive for people to report employers in violation of the law; the details could be worked out. 3rd thing you need to do is deny government assistance to illegals and their children. They'll go home on their own, and if they're unable to then we can give them a free bus ride back. This would be a budget neutral solution to the problem, or even be a revenue generator for the government for a period of time. +money from fines, and -spending from denying government assistance to illegals.