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How do you know it's time to switch jobs?

sze5003

sze5003

Lifer
Do you wait until you are fed up? Or do you just try and get a feel for what's out there ?

Been at my company as a developer for 2.5 years now. The manager I previously worked under wanted to promote me but it's a rule that new employees get rotated to different teams and projects when they are new. Ok fine this was my second rotation. Problem I see is, I have been put on a team on a tough project where most of the devs are senior level. So I'm doing senior level work but compensation is not the same as them.

The work isn't extremely hard, it makes you think and I like that. The other problem is no one has any idea of the architecture. They always think it's going to work how they say, until I go to do something and then we realize nope doesn't work like that.

Another thing I worry about is if I switch jobs, I would need to really study. You don't learn much development practices here since everyone has their hands in the code and it's pretty much all build, legacy or not. I didn't come from a comp sci background I did the IT major, with business and took the development route in school and on my own.

The good:
Stable company and job. No one gets fired, they let contractors go.

Great benefits.

Awesome people to work with.

Steady raise although very small every year and each summer we get some other money bonus based on company performance.

Bad :

Too much corporate BS and politics

Some people aren't helpful or not good mentors, selfish.

Low pay, they say it's up there with industry standards but my first job out of college I was making more.

Everything is developed in house, cheapest technology..not up with the times.

Tough to move up because so many people and there needs to be positions open.

Going to talk to my manger today. Any suggestions ?
 
sze5003 said:
Do you wait until you are fed up? Or do you just try and get a feel for what's out there ?

Been at my company as a developer for 2.5 years now. The manager I previously worked under wanted to promote me but it's a rule that new employees get rotated to different teams and projects when they are new. Ok fine this was my second rotation. Problem I see is, I have been put on a team on a tough project where most of the devs are senior level. So I'm doing senior level work but compensation is not the same as them.

The work isn't extremely hard, it makes you think and I like that. The other problem is no one has any idea of the architecture. They always think it's going to work how they say, until I go to do something and then we realize nope doesn't work like that.

Another thing I worry about is if I switch jobs, I would need to really study. You don't learn much development practices here since everyone has their hands in the code and it's pretty much all build, legacy or not. I didn't come from a comp sci background I did the IT major, with business and took the development route in school and on my own.

The good:
Stable company and job. No one gets fired, they let contractors go.

Great benefits.

Awesome people to work with.

Steady raise although very small every year and each summer we get some other money bonus based on company performance.

Bad :

Too much corporate BS and politics

Some people aren't helpful or not good mentors, selfish.

Low pay, they say it's up there with industry standards but my first job out of college I was making more.

Everything is developed in house, cheapest technology..not up with the times.

Tough to move up because so many people and there needs to be positions open.

Going to talk to my manger today. Any suggestions ?
Click to expand...
I'm just chiming in to tell you the two bolded points alone shouldn't really even be listed. You will find that problem at 99% of all companies. I've encountered corporate BS and politics in a 5-man operation. It's part of life.
 
unless there isnt really a serious problem then don't change, they say, in my country, don't get mad at the jerk in your job and leave...for you may get an asshole as a manager in your next job

what im trying to say, is you may get a wayy worse company next time, it might be horrible manager, horrible colleagues, politics (as usual), and the list goes on.

Go home, pray, thank the lord that you haave a job and u get a bonus once in a while some people are begging just to be in your place...

always thank god and look at who is worse than u
 
It's tough

When times are tough, just think how much worse it can be. Look at EA or other Development firms and the hell they put their employees thru.

You will never find perfection OP. If you job is pretty stable just swallow your pride and do your thing.

Stay away from politics and BS and simply laugh at it/keep your head down.
 
you obviously aren't happy at your job, or else you wouldn't have even made this thread. i say see what else is out there and toss your resume out. many people get too comfortable at a job and are scared of change, and that seems to be part of the reason you are hesitant.

i mean one of your "pros" is that you get a steady but small raise, then your negative is that the pay is low. as long as you stay there, your pay probably isn't going to jump much at all.

i'm a developer too, and stayed at my first job out of school for 5 years. my pay, over a 5 year period, went up only about 14k. but, that is also only because one raise period i went and asked for more, and got a 15% raise. well with what i was making at the time, 15% was only like 6.5k or so. by the time i left after 5 years i was making like 20k-25k less than the "industry average" according to sites. so i left.

that is by far the best move i've ever made in my career. now, 4 years later, i'm making over double what i was making at that position when i left and have MUCH better benefits. i still know people who work there that are severely underpaid. but they are all comfortable and scared to leave and pursue new things. also, when they do leave, they are not going to be marketable because they basically have 1 skill set and have never had to learn new technologies or learn to get the job done.
 
Life's a bitch. I switched jobs within the company last month and now my old job is posted two grades higher and 15% higher salary.

Sounds like it may not be the best company to work for, but I guess it's up to you to determine if you can find something better.
 
I'm definitely thankful for my job. This is one of the companies I've always wanted to work at. When I got the job I could not believe it haha.

Close to 3% raise or a little more is what they usually give if your performance is good. They say that you have to receive at least four evaluation topics with a score of excellent in order to move up to the next level. So far I've gotten six or more rated as that.

It's funny because when you do good you will notice the description of your level has changed even though the next level up says exactly the same description plus a couple of more things.
I'll just ask my manager how I can go up to the next level. The easiest would be to post out to another team in the company that has a position open for that level. But I've just began on my current team and it wouldn't be allowed for me to post out yet.
 
It never hurts to look... unless you get caught and your boss is the type to get freaked out by that kind of thing. Get your resume out there.
 
rcpratt said:
Life's a bitch. I switched jobs within the company last month and now my old job is posted two grades higher and 15% higher salary.

Sounds like it may not be the best company to work for, but I guess it's up to you to determine if you can find something better.
Click to expand...

That's what happens when you do really good work. In order to replace you, they have to spend a lot more money for the right guy. I quit my position (moved across the country) and i was interviewing my replacement candidates. They ended up paying the guy 40% more than what I was making.

to the OP: let your manager know that you're doing senior level work, and you would like that to be reflected in your title and salary. He'll probably say no, but he'll know where you're coming from, and that's a start.
 
jaedaliu said:
That's what happens when you do really good work. In order to replace you, they have to spend a lot more money for the right guy. I quit my position (moved across the country) and i was interviewing my replacement candidates. They ended up paying the guy 40% more than what I was making.

to the OP: let your manager know that you're doing senior level work, and you would like that to be reflected in your title and salary. He'll probably say no, but he'll know where you're coming from, and that's a start.
Click to expand...

My manager is a lady. From other employees I've heard she is old management style. One guy said no matter how good you are she always has to find at least one fault.

I've had discussions with her before, she's really nice and seems to be helpful. Maybe not much she can do to give me an intermediate title but maybe she can give me some tips or heads up on something I can do. I'm always looking for something to do when I finish my tasks. Problem is, what there is left to do is team wide not just a single person like bringing up code coverage. I would rather not be in charge of writing tests for code I never wrote, not a smart thing to do.
 
jaedaliu said:
That's what happens when you do really good work. In order to replace you, they have to spend a lot more money for the right guy. I quit my position (moved across the country) and i was interviewing my replacement candidates. They ended up paying the guy 40% more than what I was making.

to the OP: let your manager know that you're doing senior level work, and you would like that to be reflected in your title and salary. He'll probably say no, but he'll know where you're coming from, and that's a start.
Click to expand...

i don't think it is that at all to be honest. it's just the market value.

like someone with 5 years experience in the software world can make, say $80k.

someone who starts fresh out of school, starting at $50k, then leaves after 5 years at a company, most likely won't be making anywhere NEAR $80k if they just got the normal standard raises year over year (lets say 5%, which is even higher average wise).

that $50k person would be making like $65k or so after 5 years, whereas someone looking for a new after 5 years should be looking for around $80k.

that's why if you are looking for a pay increase, the best way to do it is through jumping jobs. you just don't want to do it too often so that you don't look like "that guy" who is always chasing a paycheck.

but being underpaid is one of the MAJOR reasons i personally left my first job, and the numbers were very similar to the example i gave above too, as to what i was making and what i went to.
 
purbeast0 said:
i don't think it is that at all to be honest. it's just the market value.

like someone with 5 years experience in the software world can make, say $80k.

someone who starts fresh out of school, starting at $50k, then leaves after 5 years at a company, most likely won't be making anywhere NEAR $80k if they just got the normal standard raises year over year (lets say 5%, which is even higher average wise).

that $50k person would be making like $65k or so after 5 years, whereas someone looking for a new after 5 years should be looking for around $80k.

that's why if you are looking for a pay increase, the best way to do it is through jumping jobs. you just don't want to do it too often so that you don't look like "that guy" who is always chasing a paycheck.

but being underpaid is one of the MAJOR reasons i personally left my first job, and the numbers were very similar to the example i gave above too, as to what i was making and what i went to.
Click to expand...

I was the only graduate in my class that got a job right out of school for 65k. The others, well they didn't want to do development. After a year and half there, funding was cut and I got the job I have now, for less money though. With the amount of student loans I pay I'm alright but a little extra to put away for a rainy day would not hurt. I am at least glad I like where I work somewhat. Never got to the point where I have ever said I hated it.
 
Nothing wrong with always casually looking for a better opportunity. Sometimes all it takes is going to the manager with another offer for them to think about what is going to happen if you leave for them to offer a huge raise.

Let me tell you though, your points on 'the good' will become much more important to you after you have a job that pays well but has terrible benefits and terrible people to work with. I get paid very well but I love the people I work with and the work environment so much that I would seriously continue working there if they cut my pay by $30k.
 
dank69 said:
I'm just chiming in to tell you the two bolded points alone shouldn't really even be listed. You will find that problem at 99% of all companies. I've encountered corporate BS and politics in a 5-man operation. It's part of life.
Click to expand...

Agreed. You'll never avoid stuff like that. It's harder to find people you like working with IMO, so that's worth considering. However, ultimately you're working because you need to earn money. If the money isn't there, it wouldn't hurt to see what else is out there.
 
i put a bunch of hash marks on my white board. everytime i reached my breaking point I erased one. once there weren't any left the resume went out the door.
 
You know it's time to switch if you're angry all the time, or if you, without exagerration, think death is a positive alternative.*

*Yes, this happened to me at my old job.
 
sze5003 said:
My manager is a lady. From other employees I've heard she is old management style. One guy said no matter how good you are she always has to find at least one fault.

I've had discussions with her before, she's really nice and seems to be helpful.
Click to expand...

Just a random note - I don't have thirty years of experience working so don't take me as a renowned expert, but I have learned to pretty much never take anyone's opinion of a manager as the gospel truth. People love projecting their idea and their interpretation of someone onto them, especially when it's someone in a relative position of power.
 
yllus said:
Just a random note - I don't have thirty years of experience working so don't take me as a renowned expert, but I have learned to pretty much never take anyone's opinion of a manager as the gospel truth. People love projecting their idea and their interpretation of someone onto them, especially when it's someone in a relative position of power.
Click to expand...

As a former manager, I'd have to say that's very accurate.

Many people treated me very differently once I became a manager, and had mistaken ideas about what I was and wasn't like.

Edit: And yes, I quit that job despite it being a very good job. I couldn't see myself doing the job for the rest of my life, and decided to head back to school.
 
yllus said:
Just a random note - I don't have thirty years of experience working so don't take me as a renowned expert, but I have learned to pretty much never take anyone's opinion of a manager as the gospel truth. People love projecting their idea and their interpretation of someone onto them, especially when it's someone in a relative position of power.
Click to expand...

What people say does not always mean it's true. I've worked for people that the general employees have said horrible things about, but in my case none of that was evident. I would not want to be a manager either. They are often out of loop on what we are working on. I've seen this with PM's too. Too many meetings and such and little exposure to what each team is doing. Especially if you are a higher level manager. Rather than technical issues you deal with politics and people issues/business matters, no thanks.

It's not an easy job even though some managers seem to be doing nothing, just not something that everyone prefers.
 
yllus said:
Just a random note - I don't have thirty years of experience working so don't take me as a renowned expert, but I have learned to pretty much never take anyone's opinion of a manager as the gospel truth. People love projecting their idea and their interpretation of someone onto them, especially when it's someone in a relative position of power.
Click to expand...

truth fact

I have a buddy at work that had pretty bad stories about a particular manager, and I wasn't excited when I heard he was getting moved over to my area. However we get along great. Turns out my buddy just has a shitty work ethic and this manager wasn't shy about calling him lazy. Imagine that... a manager that wants you to do your job.
 
Uh, because I am coming up to my minimum Retirement age/ +Years at my job.
35+ years, Plus very soon I shall be 55.
This means, time to get out, and Retire, and Maybe work part time some place.

cavey 😉


sze5003 said:
How do you know it's time to switch jobs?


Do you wait until you are fed up? Or do you just try and get a feel for what's out there ?

Been at my company as a developer for 2.5 years now. The manager I previously worked under wanted to promote me but it's a rule that new employees get rotated to different teams and projects when they are new. Ok fine this was my second rotation. Problem I see is, I have been put on a team on a tough project where most of the devs are senior level. So I'm doing senior level work but compensation is not the same as them.

The work isn't extremely hard, it makes you think and I like that. The other problem is no one has any idea of the architecture. They always think it's going to work how they say, until I go to do something and then we realize nope doesn't work like that.

Another thing I worry about is if I switch jobs, I would need to really study. You don't learn much development practices here since everyone has their hands in the code and it's pretty much all build, legacy or not. I didn't come from a comp sci background I did the IT major, with business and took the development route in school and on my own.

The good:
Stable company and job. No one gets fired, they let contractors go.

Great benefits.

Awesome people to work with.

Steady raise although very small every year and each summer we get some other money bonus based on company performance.

Bad :

Too much corporate BS and politics

Some people aren't helpful or not good mentors, selfish.

Low pay, they say it's up there with industry standards but my first job out of college I was making more.

Everything is developed in house, cheapest technology..not up with the times.

Tough to move up because so many people and there needs to be positions open.

Going to talk to my manger today. Any suggestions ?
Click to expand...
 
I don't know...

I work a full-time job and worked a side job. Here's what happened. Last year, I made a thread too, about quitting my main job and working for my side-job guy. The conclusion I came to after careful analysis was that my side-job boss is an idiot and my main job is very stable, pays a living wage despite the fact that I'm underemployed, and does have room for advancement with lots of departments I could roll into. My field, construction essentially, is not the most stable and very cyclic unless you work for guberment. I realized that no subfield within my education field would actually make me happy enough to make it worth leaving my company.

Evidence of side-job idiocy: I had to call in sick for two days, told him to find someone else to do the job (I'm a "contractor" on paper with no contract, no agreement, nothing), and he says he'll get sued and his business will crumble if I don't help. Translation: he's too cheap to hire someone else because I was his bitch for 3 years. Need a really intense job done in a week? Yes, sir, even if I have to take days off from my real job, use every hour outside work to work on it, my weekends, yes sir. Pay me below market wage for an entry-level employee with the same qualifications? Yes, sir.
 
Yeah this is a job I could stay at as long as I want. I've noticed those that moved up though through knowing other managers or others that work in a team they could contact and get close to in terms of going from one department to the next. Very few were actually promoted through performance which is why they keep changing the performance standards every year or so.

I think after another year I will try and post out to a different team at a higher level. My previous manager mentioned if he ever opens up a higher position I'll be the first to know and I could move back on his team. Even though that was prod support and a different type of development I enjoyed that team a lot.

Like others said here sometimes we get too comfortable with the way things are. I know for sure If I applied anywhere else I would have to bust out books and study because everything I've done here is so proprietary that it wouldn't help when going for technical interviews at other companies.
 
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