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How do you feel about stealing open wifi networks?

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I think getting arested for using someones wifi network is some bullshit. You bought your computer and if your notebook computer contains a network card that you have the right to use it however you want.
 
Originally posted by: Agentbolt
Legally it's not stealing. The wireless signal is technically in your house, so you are free to use it. This is assuming it's unencrypted, if it's a secure network then you're not allowed to use it, because you'd have to hack into it to gain access, which is illegal.

Morally speaking, it's a lot more ambiguous. You'll have to ask yourself that question.
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It is stealing and it is illegal.

This area of the law is being quickly re-written to stop this kind of abuse and theft of another persons resources.

-edit-
forgot to mention it is against federal law. You are connecting to a computer you do not have explicit permission to use.
 
Originally posted by: Laughingman12
I think getting arested for using someones wifi network is some bullshit. You bought your computer and if your notebook computer contains a network card that you have the right to use it however you want.
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...so if they use WEP encryption (which is trivially easy to crack now), do you think you should be able to break into someone's secured network for your personal use? Even if they ask you not to?

Since you have the right to "use it however you want" and all.
 
Originally posted by: Laughingman12
I think getting arested for using someones wifi network is some bullshit. You bought your computer and if your notebook computer contains a network card that you have the right to use it however you want.
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Thats fine and dandy but its still their router, as Matthais99 points out.
 
If you are a rancher and have 20 miles of fence parallel to power transmission lines and one day get shocked or realize there's power in YOUR fence and tap off it and use the power your utility company can ask for compensation.

Even though you have not connected wires to their network, inductive coupling is like a wire and there is no free ride.
 
It's not like it really matters. It's one of those things that nobody can do anything about. If you don't want people using your sh!t, lock it up.

Whether it is illegal or not is not going to stop anybody.
Originally posted by: Maiora
If you are a rancher and have 20 miles of fence parallel to power transmission lines and one day get shocked or realize there's power in YOUR fence and tap off it and use the power your utility company can ask for compensation.

Even though you have not connected wires to their network, inductive coupling is like a wire and there is no free ride.
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They wouldn't ever realistically find out about it, though. 😉
 
Originally posted by: Eli
It's not like it really matters. It's one of those things that nobody can do anything about. If you don't want people using your sh!t, lock it up.

Whether it is illegal or not is not going to stop anybody.
Originally posted by: Maiora
If you are a rancher and have 20 miles of fence parallel to power transmission lines and one day get shocked or realize there's power in YOUR fence and tap off it and use the power your utility company can ask for compensation.

Even though you have not connected wires to their network, inductive coupling is like a wire and there is no free ride.
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They wouldn't ever realistically find out about it, though. 😉
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Unless, you know, they metered how much current is being pulled off their power grid and figured out that something was leeching extra power from that part of the grid.

Using an unsecured wireless network for relatively innocuous purposes is extremely minor in the grand scheme of things. Many people would probably give you permission anyway. Whether you think it is "wrong" or not depends on whether you believe you should respect property rights even in cases where violating them will not harm the property's owner.

Regardless of how you feel about it, it is not technically legal to do this without the permission of the person who owns the wireless access point (and the person who pays for the internet service, if they're not the same person).
 
Originally posted by: Agentbolt
Legally it's not stealing. The wireless signal is technically in your house, so you are free to use it. This is assuming it's unencrypted, if it's a secure network then you're not allowed to use it, because you'd have to hack into it to gain access, which is illegal.

Morally speaking, it's a lot more ambiguous. You'll have to ask yourself that question.
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Umm WTF? It is stealing, many states have arrested people for doing this.😕
 
Illegal. I don't think it's a big deal to do it occasionally, but using your neighbor's Internet for months is a no-no.
 
Ok so what if the person use WEP. Why would they use Wep then if its so easy to crack? Why not WPA or WPA2? And even if its their wireless signal your computer can detect it and with a press of a button your in. So what if its there router, I bought my computer fairly and I should mess with it how I want.

EDIT: Is not a propety issue since a wireless card can detect up to 300 feet of wireless signal.
 
Originally posted by: Laughingman12
Ok so what if the person use WEP. Why would they use Wep then if its so easy to crack? Why not WPA or WPA2? And even if its their wireless signal your computer can detect it and with a press of a button your in. So what if its there router, I bought my computer fairly and I should mess with it how I want.

EDIT: Is not a propety issue since a wireless card can detect up to 300 feet of wireless signal.
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You are connecting to another computer (access point) without permission. You are consuming their property and resources without permission.

It is very clear and cut and dry.

why do you think microsoft stopped connecting to wireless networks without asking you first? Because they got slammed for doing so. Stop the entitlement mentatlity.

It's not like I deal with this crap and these issues every day.
 
Originally posted by: Laughingman12
Ok so what if the person use WEP. Why would they use Wep then if its so easy to crack? Why not WPA or WPA2? And even if its their wireless signal your computer can detect it and with a press of a button your in. So what if its there router, I bought my computer fairly and I should mess with it how I want.
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If somebody locks their front door while they're on vacation but uses a crappy lock, is it okay for you to pick the lock, break into their house, and have a party there? You don't break anything, steal anything, or make a mess. You're just using the space.

EDIT: Is not a propety issue since a wireless card can detect up to 300 feet of wireless signal.
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It's a property issue because you're making use of their router and the internet connection they are paying for without their permission.
 
Originally posted by: Agentbolt
<sigh> NO. Why do so many people on this board insist on getting into legal argument when they have no idea what they're talking about?

You are comparing apples and oranges. BOTH crimes you mention involve entering someone else's property. If you use someone's wireless signal, you are NOT entering their property. You are utilizing a radio signal which is currently INSIDE YOUR PROPERTY. There is no theft and no trespassing. If someone somehow transported a television inside your house, you could watch the TV without it being a crime because the TV is on your property.

Like the example above, if some guy is growing oranges to sell, and the tree overhangs your house, and some drop onto your lawn and you eat one or two, you can't be accused of stealing the oranges. The oranges are on your property and the dude lost ownership of them regardless of where they came from when they landed on your lawn.
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I don't think you understand how networks and specifically wireless work.

Just by associating to your neighbors access point you are connecting to a computer they own and operate (the access point - it's got memory, it's got CPU, it's got long term storage...it's a computer).

Even if you do not use the connection you are consuming resources that they own without permission (bandwidth), just by being associated. Stop the entitlement mentatlity.
 
Originally posted by: Laughingman12
I think getting arested for using someones wifi network is some bullshit. You bought your computer and if your notebook computer contains a network card that you have the right to use it however you want.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I bought my knife so I have the right to use it however I want. Hold still while I stab you in the neck.
 
Originally posted by: Matthias99

Unless, you know, they metered how much current is being pulled off their power grid and figured out that something was leeching extra power from that part of the grid.
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Except that they don't. 😉

Power usage is measured at the end users location. If you bypass your meter, you have free electricity. The only way they will find out is if they notice that you have bypassed it.

And then you're screwed. 😉
 
Umm WTF? It is stealing, many states have arrested people for doing this.
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Most people seem to disagree with me, but on this one I'll admit I'm on shaky ground, so I'm conceding the point. However, that case in Florida is the first one I've EVER heard of. Please post links to where you've found out about these "many states" that have arrested people. I'm pretty sure you're full of it.
 
Originally posted by: KingofCamelot

Also, under your last argument about oranges, apparently my dog would no longer be my property if it wandered into a neighbor's yard by accident? 😕
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It wouldn't be your neighbor's property, but they could pet it. Leashes are very easy to get hold of. As such, letting your dog run loose gives implicit permission to use it, as long as such use does not forseeably interfere with the owner's use. This is still not the same as wifi, but it's a lot closer than other examples.

Originally posted by: mugs

Yeah, I bought my knife so I have the right to use it however I want. Hold still while I stab you in the neck.
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Beat me to it.

Wifi is a difficult area because it's not exactly like anything else, and many people have no idea how it works. This makes it more difficult for them to choose how to use their network, or to even know they have the ability to choose, or to even know they must choose if they want to be secure. Now, as I said earlier, that doesn't get these people off the hook...but it does mean that the more tech-savvy people have power over the less tech-savvy people in this area, and that brings responsibility.

If you're using somebody else's stuff, you need to have permission, or you're stealing. The rub is, it can be difficult or impossible to tell with wifi when you have permission. But this much is certain- if you're not paying the bill, you don't make the rules.
 
Besides...this legal argument we're having is bogus and you all should know it.

Anybody dumb enough to leave their WiFi unsecured is not going to notice/track a leech, and anyone dumb enough to get caught stealing WiFi doesn't deserve the privilege.

If you're smart, leeching a person's WiFi should be untraceable for that person; common identifiers such as your MAC and computer name can be spoofed.
 
depends for what. i plan on haveing a wireless network in our new house which should be complete by next year. i'll probably encrypt it but if i did leave it open, i'd atleast make sure that the only thing anybody else can use it for is surfing the net. i imagine there are custom firmware's that allow you to limit the amound of bandwidth.
 
Originally posted by: jpeyton
Besides...this legal argument we're having is bogus and you all should know it.

Anybody dumb enough to leave their WiFi unsecured is not going to notice/track a leech, and anyone dumb enough to get caught stealing WiFi doesn't deserve the privilege.

If you're smart, leeching a person's WiFi should be untraceable for that person; common identifiers such as your MAC and computer name can be spoofed.
Click to expand...

For what it's worth I run an open access point and capture all the traffic for later analysis.

Lots of good stuff in dem packets. Passwords, account information, cookies...lots of good stuff. Sometimes for fun I'll sit between the client and server.

But that's not hacking right? They chose to connect to the network. Since I own and operate said network anything they send/receive I OWN.
 
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