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How do you feel about reverse discrimination?

A

Arkitech

Diamond Member

I've been reading a few posts about this matter. Apparently there a quite a few people who have had reverse discrimination experiences. It appears that most of those cases are related to a white person being passed over for a job, promotion or scholarship because that particular company or school has a minority quota they must maintain.


On a personal level I have to agree it must be really irritating to see someone less qualified or motivated receive something that you rightfully should have been yours. But on the other hand minorities are in many cases passed over even though they maybe more qualified than perhaps their white counterparts. Also it was just 30-40 years ago that no matter how talented or educated a minority was if you did'nt have the right friends or associates and some other type of special circumstances you would have a VERY difficult time in finding certain types of employment.


How do you feel about reverse discrimination?

 


<< reverse discrimination?

No such thing.

Discrimination is discrimination no matter what direction you go in. >>




I agree with that statement, but there are some individuals who feel very strongly that there is a thing as reverse biasing or whatever the case might be.
 
I dont think this is discrimination at all. First of all, I am aware that people sometimes are overlooked for opportunity even if they are the more qualified applicant. But the reason, even if it is quota has nothing to do with discrimination. You are not losing the job because an employer has perset beleifs about you as a person based soley on your race/sex.
Second, maybe you might think youre more qualified, but that doesnt mean you are what a company is lookiing for at that time. Maybe a persons ignorance/intolerance is apparent after the first interview?
Everyone is worried about how they are getting screwed. If poeple stopped complaining, and sucked it up, maybe their hard work will be recognized. I for one would not take a job to fill a quota. I get equally pissed when people who think they were victims of &quot;reverse discrimination&quot; comment I got where I am today by any other means than hard work.
 
i work at a funcoland and this lady's check bounced (15dollar check) and she started saying that if it was my kind it would have gone through and what not... that was after i helped her for about 20 mins while the store was very busy. then another time this black lady came in and wanted to trade in games i explained you get store credit only and she started cursing me off and saying that i wont give her cash because she is black , i told her i would get my boss and when i did she shut her racist mouth . Since my boss is black. I personaly don't care if your black or spanish or whatever if your nice to me i'm nice to you... I have a saying no matter the color a prick is a prick.....
 


<< Also it was just 30-40 years ago that no matter how talented or educated a minority was if you did'nt have the right friends or associates and some other type of special circumstances you would have a VERY difficult time in finding certain types of employment. >>



Here is my problem with this. I know that this happened. It was not a good thing to happen but why do we need to make the same mistakes again. That is all reverse discrimination and affirmative action are doing. They are repeating the same mistakes already made. Guess what?? There is a very simple solution. Just hire the best person for the job regardless of race, color, gender, and religion.....

Jim
 


<<

<< Also it was just 30-40 years ago that no matter how talented or educated a minority was if you did'nt have the right friends or associates and some other type of special circumstances you would have a VERY difficult time in finding certain types of employment. >>



Here is my problem with this. I know that this happened. It was not a good thing to happen but why do we need to make the same mistakes again. That is all reverse discrimination and affirmative action are doing. They are repeating the same mistakes already made. Guess what?? There is a very simple solution. Just hire the best person for the job regardless of race, color, gender, and religion.....

Jim >>




I can totally understand where you are coming from, but the truth is many companies would not hire minorities whether they were the most qualified or not. In fact if there were no affirmative action laws there would be quite a few qualified, unemployed minorities. Again I can understand where some people are coming from on this issue but lets be honest some people will simply not do the right thing unless they are forced to.
 
Arkitech,

I may be ignorant in this issue because I hope for the best but I think that most companies would hire the most qualified person without affirmative action. 20 years ago I would totally agree with you. But in this day and age, people have let a lot of the old attitudes go. This is coming from someone living in South Carolina. Yes I know there are still some ignornant racist and there always will be IMO.

I am sure there are some companies that would still not hire a minority if it wasn't for AA but I see those type of companies failing or not doing very well. If they purposely hire a white male over a minority because they are discriminating based on color/sex then they are going to end up with a lot of worthless people.

What I have personally seen is certain minority students from my HS get into college because they were a minority. Not only that, they got scholarships. I witnessed 12 years with these people doing nothing. They never earned anything in there life but are deemed worthy of a scholarship because they are a minority. Just not right in my opinion. Of course I am a white male so many people will say I see the world different.

Jim
 
I see reverse discrimination every day. Attend a public university as a white male and you'll know exactly what I mean. It's total BS. Quotas are BS too. Ironic that we talk about unity in the United States and an end to racism and yet all affirmitive action does is fuel racism. Also, diversity is the buzz word all leaders/politicians spout today. I don't think they have figured out that diversity and unity are opposites.
I feel strongly about this issue. I have no problem being passed up by someone more qualified than me but I do have a problem seeing a scholarship go to a student who barely made it out of high school while I was an A/B student.
-DAGTA
 
Here is my problem with this. I know that this happened. It was not a good thing to happen but why do we need to make the same mistakes again. That is all reverse discrimination and affirmative action are doing. They are repeating the same mistakes already made. Guess what?? There is a very simple solution. Just hire the best person for the job regardless of race, color, gender, and religion.....

I think the problem is that most young people now are raised correctly. You all have good hearts and recognized the inconsistency of saying &quot;We should all be treated as equals&quot; while seeming to give minorities special benefits. We should have a policy that only hires the best person regardless of race, color, gender and religion.

But I think a lot of you are a bit naive. Supposed that life is like the game of Monopoly. If in the past white people got the best properties because of racism do you think it's likely that a minority will be able to get ahead in the game? From my past experience playing the game, once the opponents get the best property, I'm pretty much doomed.

You can't just say, &quot;Okay, from now on we're gonna be fair&quot; -- because you're so far ahead that it's impossible for others to win. You have to do things to recitify past mistakes to even the playing field.

Affirmative Action should only be a temporary solution but I still think it's needed today. For God's sake, it was only in the 60's that many blacks were denied basic rights. That isn't too long ago. Many people who openly blocked the rights of blacks are still in power today.

Also sometimes I hear your stories about how you got past over for someone less qualified and I wonder, &quot;how do you know he is less qualified?&quot;. You can't judge the qualification of someone just by numbers (higher GPA/SAT scores etc). If you can, then Ryan Leaf is a better quarterback than Kurt Warner.

I know its true that sometimes they do hire incompetent people just to fill a quota (one of my brothers has lots of horror stories about his own experiences) but I'm sure in many cases the other person will do okay.

Also, is it a good policy to hire only the best qualified (from a numbers standpoint)? I know many sports teams with superior talent that failed (like last years Washington Redskins) which makes me think that team chemistry is just as important to the success of the organization.

What happens if a college or university decides that having a diversified campus is equivalent to having good team chemistry? I know that my college experience was enriched bacause I met all sorts of different people. I don't know if I would have enjoyed college if I was surrounded by people exactly like me (shy asian guys). Would a college or university be wrong if they wanted a diversified campus and therefore might pick a minority student with a slightly lower GPA/SAT score over someone else?
 
reverse discrimination is somewhat of a term that does not make sense. not an oxymoron, but along the lines of something rediculous...

you can look up what discrimination is... modify that with reverse and what do you have?

the common representation of reverse discrimination is some non-minority being discriminated against (usually white). how is that a REVERSE of discrimination?

--

anyway, sh!t happens. deal with it.

but discrimination is wrong no matter how incorrectly you modify it with an adjective.

 
StormRider: &quot;Would a college or university be wrong if they wanted a diversified campus and therefore might pick a minority student with a slightly lower GPA/SAT score over someone else?&quot;

Yes, because it is wrong. It also makes hypocrites of the college officials who say they only enroll the best students. For over two years I worked at the University's computing services. I wrote programs that generated reports from data in the student database. Everyday I had to go through dozens of student records to verify the accuracy of my reports. Nearly every day I was angered by the blatent discrimination I saw. The worst example that comes to mind is a guy that scored in the 700's on his SAT, was ranked in the BOTTOM 25% of his graduating class and he received a FULL ride scholarship to my college. I scored a 1330 on my SAT, graduated in the top 10% of my class and applied for scholarships. I did not get a full ride. There were two things in his record that suggested why he got it. First, he is black. Second, he was willing to play football. Getting things handed to you in life because of your skin color is only going to make racism worse in this country. Also, look at all the people that are growing up having everything handed to them. They likely will be bums their entire lives. This is a serious problem.
-DAGTA
 


<< Arkitech,

I may be ignorant in this issue because I hope for the best but I think that most companies would hire the most qualified person without affirmative action. 20 years ago I would totally agree with you. But in this day and age, people have let a lot of the old attitudes go. This is coming from someone living in South Carolina. Yes I know there are still some ignornant racist and there always will be IMO.

I am sure there are some companies that would still not hire a minority if it wasn't for AA but I see those type of companies failing or not doing very well. If they purposely hire a white male over a minority because they are discriminating based on color/sex then they are going to end up with a lot of worthless people.

What I have personally seen is certain minority students from my HS get into college because they were a minority. Not only that, they got scholarships. I witnessed 12 years with these people doing nothing. They never earned anything in there life but are deemed worthy of a scholarship because they are a minority. Just not right in my opinion. Of course I am a white male so many people will say I see the world different.

Jim >>





I appreciate your feedback, these are the kind of discussions that help people understand the situations of others. In response to your post, there are some companies who would hire the best person for the job but unfortunately this is not always the case. I can't even count how many times I've known work associates, friends and family get passed over for promotions because they were minorities even though they were more qualified. This type of thing happens in the most sucessful corporations and companies.


Its a shame that some people are given certain priviliges based soley on the fact that they have a minority status, but the truth is for every one minority that is hired or given a scholarship there are probably ten others who will be turned away regardless if they are qualified or not.


It is said that people generally tend to associate with people who are similar to themselves (birds of a feather flock together) so in a certain sense its natural for people to want to hire people who look and act like they do. With that same type of reasoning in mind think about this, whites are the most powerful race in America. They are the primary owners of big corporations, they statisically have the upper hand so its logical to conclude that they would probably be more inclined to hire their own kind as opposed to others. I don't hate anyone for that kind of thinking, but it does make the situation harder for those ethnic groups in less privileged stations of life. I'm assuming the goverment recognizes this and in a effort to equalize things out they enforce the aa laws and equal opp. hiring.
 
Arkitech and Stormrider,

I totally understand where you are coming from. I just personally think it sucks. I know that I am blinded in some regards because I am not in the other person's shoes. I just know that I try to be fair in anything and everything I do. I ony discriminate against jerks and assholes 🙂

I work as a PC tech support guy for my university so I have to deal with alot of different types of professors. The only ones that piss me off are the jerks.

Hopefully one day the race/sex/religion issue will not be around. I hope that most everyone can see that we are just people. There are going to be idiots in any race/sex/religion. People just need to look at the person's character not the person's sex/color/religion.

On another note, I see where you are coming from Arkitech. I will admit that 99.9% of my friends are white males. This is simply because most of my interests are shared with mostly white males. I am a big metal head 🙂 Old school metal btw. So I do see your point Arkitech about wanting people like yourself around you. It would probably benefit me more to surround myself with a bigger variety of types of people but it more a matter that I just don't try to surround myself with any type of people. I just let things go and if I befriend someone then so be it.

I have enjoyed discussing this with you guys and gals.

Jim
 
I lived in the Ann Arbor area for 10 years, and have hung out there since 1981. It has been intersting to watch the changes in the undergrad population at the University of Michigan. It used to be a quality school, with standards for entrance. Now, you look at the freshman class, and you will see people that should not even be in a comminity college. It is sad really. It used to be the only bafoons that you ran into were some of the athletes and the communications majors. Now they are every where.
 
That has got to be one of if not the best articulated statement explaining affirmative action and why we need it, I've ever heard!...

I wholeheartedly agree with everything you just stated...

And thanks as well for recognizing that our young generation(I'm 22) are not bunch of yahoo slackers... 🙂

-Max
 


<< I lived in the Ann Arbor area for 10 years, and have hung out there since 1981. It has been intersting to watch the changes in the undergrad population at the University of Michigan. It used to be a quality school, with standards for entrance. Now, you look at the freshman class, and you will see people that should not even be in a comminity college. It is sad really. It used to be the only bafoons that you ran into were some of the athletes and the communications majors. Now they are every where. >>




haha, I guess that just reflects society. There are idiots no matter where you go, if you ask me the jerks and the hateful people are the ones who should be discriminated against but sadly thats rarely the case.
 
Arkitech,

I make up for the people that don't discriminate against jerks. I work for my university as PC Support. I get quite a few assholes I have to deal with. They go on &quot;my list&quot;. If I see they need help in the future then they are last to get help. Alot of the PhD professors here have a big chip on their shoulder. I know they earned their degree but they have no need to be a jerk to someone that makes $7.00/hour and is helping them out.

Jim
 
I don't think there is such a thing as &quot;Reverse&quot; discrimination, only plain ol Discrimination! Some people in America believe there is such a thing and try to play upon that. For example: At work an African-American guy commented to me a couple years ago on the highschool shooting in Colorado. He told me &quot;Those are your people that did that&quot; and proceded to laugh. I told him that I came to the US from the Soviet Union in 1974, where I was born. I came here with my parents when I was 4 years old. I told him that I have nothing to do with what ever people he was talking about and had not a damn thing to do with his damn slavery issues that he keeps bringing up every once in a while. I believe he's been trying to use this so called &quot;reverse&quot; discrimination towards me because he assumed my ancestors had something to do with early America. This of course would be a impossibility since I was born in Russia and moved here with my family in the 70's. It seems that Discrimination is not only exercised why whites in America! BTW, I think I'm going to start calling my self Russian-American.
 
The only true African-American that I know is WHITE with blonde hair and blue eyes 🙂 He moved to america when I was in 10th grade. He was from South Africa and had the coolest accent. I don't think these types of terms are useful to anyone.

Jim
 
I am glad that this thread hasn't deteriorated into gender/race bashing. Good job Anandtechers! 🙂

I tend to agree with Arkitech on several points. I work for a large accouting firm. None of the upper-management positions are held by any minorities. Now, I don't think any one should just be given a job, but I seriously doubt that there just aren't any qualified minorities out there who could fill atleast a manager or senior manager position.
 
DAGTA, you're right and you're wrong. The reason that guy got a full scholarship was because he was a football player. Being black has nothing to do with it.

Unqualified students receiving scholarships because they're atheletes is a completely different topic!
 
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