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How do you deal with clients who are vague and rude?

S

swbsam

Platinum Member
My wife and I volunteered to re-design a website for a non-profit and earnestly spent a few hours working on a dozen logos and a website mockup.

Through the rounds we were getting contradictory responses from "we'd like something avante garde.. Edgy, not flowery" to "this is not warm enough, it's too corporate!" Finally, they called our designs "nefarious," which seemed totally uncalled for, especially since my wife listened to their criticism and actively worked toward making them happy...

I basically told them to fuck off, since I wasn't getting paid anyways... I suggested that they work with a different team because we don't find their critiques constructive and don't appreciate our work being labeled "nefarious."

Now, I probably over reacted but I don't owe these people anything..And their current site looks like it was made in 1992, so beggers are definitely being choosers here..

How do you deal with clients like this?

All of my past work was in video and, dozens of clients later, I don't have any problems dealing with people. Most problems are related to communication problems, so I try very hard to document everything and ask firm questions - it's difficult to do this when it comes to design, especially when the clients have no idea what they want. How do you get around this?
 
Originally posted by: jjsole
Strictly limit clientele to chimps only?
Click to expand...

OH, i get what you're saying...

My question is, since people obviously have opinions and, of course, have a right to express these opinions - how do you deal with people who have no idea what they want?
 
I have plenty of "shitty client" stories. After a while it won't bother you, just move on.
 
Originally posted by: orakle
These aren't clients. Clients pay money. Fuck 'em.
Click to expand...

That's why i told them to politely work with a different designer.

But, when we do start working for hire, how do you deal with clients who have no idea what they want?

I put an end to this because I could see this going on for months, them being catty instead of giving constructive criticism, but how do you get that constructive criticism out of them?
 
Originally posted by: nakedfrog
Originally posted by: MrPickins
Nefarious?

I'm not sure that word means what they think it means...
Click to expand...

Yeah, I got a giggle out of that.
Click to expand...

I don't think they know what it means either, but it surely wasn't a good word to use when speaking to free labor...
 
At some point, you just have to suggest they take their request elsewhere. Seems like the client doesn't even know what they want.

Could also suggest they find some logos with a style or theme they like.
 
I can see nefarious depending on how edgy it was. I'd have to see the design in question.

But, realistically with real clients you would ask what they wanted. Make a few mock ups in photoshop and get their approval and then create. Don't do any hard work until you have your retainer.
 
Originally posted by: swbsam
My wife and I volunteered to re-design a website for a non-profit and earnestly spent a few hours working on a dozen logos and a website mockup.

Through the rounds we were getting contradictory responses from "we'd like something avante garde.. Edgy, not flowery" to "this is not warm enough, it's too corporate!" Finally, they called our designs "nefarious," which seemed totally uncalled for, especially since my wife listened to their criticism and actively worked toward making them happy...

I basically told them to fuck off, since I wasn't getting paid anyways... I suggested that they work with a different team because we don't find their critiques constructive and don't appreciate our work being labeled "nefarious."

Now, I probably over reacted but I don't owe these people anything..And their current site looks like it was made in 1992, so beggers are definitely being choosers here..

How do you deal with clients like this?

All of my past work was in video and, dozens of clients later, I don't have any problems dealing with people. Most problems are related to communication problems, so I try very hard to document everything and ask firm questions - it's difficult to do this when it comes to design, especially when the clients have no idea what they want. How do you get around this?
Click to expand...

Well, they were getting free help, so there was no need to be rude. Constructive criticism is fine, but they were just plain rude. I probably would've told them to get lost too.

 
First, non-PROFIT is an important thing to keep in mind here. What did you expect?

Second, if you're serious, never think "I'm not getting paid anyway". If you care about your work, you do the best you can whether or not you're getting paid.

Third, you call this a "shitty client". If you're going to succeed in this business, redefine that to "normal client." You have to go through a lot of "shitty - oops NORMAL clients" at the start of your business to acquire a stable of great clients.

Fourth, when you get a REALLY horrible client (this isn't one), you merely raise your rates. You get much better clients when you charge a lot - they're the clients who are serious about the work.

Fifth, clients who don't know what they want are much better than clients who have definite ideas but don't have a clue what it takes for you to achieve that. In the beginning, you basically want a portfolio of different designs, and let the client tell you what they like and what they don't like about each design. It DOES get easier as you go along.

Edit: forgot to add most important thing, ALWAYS know who the one person is that will approve/disapprove/pay for your job. You can't please a lot of different people - but you can please one, so make sure it's the right one.
 
Originally posted by: xalos
I can see nefarious depending on how edgy it was. I'd have to see the design in question.

But, realistically with real clients you would ask what they wanted. Make a few mock ups in photoshop and get their approval and then create. Don't do any hard work until you have your retainer.
Click to expand...

Well, here are some that I have on me:

http://www.sundarama.com/mocksihi.jpg

Original site : http://www.ihi-therapycenter.org/

mockup of new site: http://sundarama.com/ihi7/Site_2/Welcome.html

They wanted "clean, younger, no-rainbows" at our first meeting, so we went that direction
 
Originally posted by: princess ida
First, non-PROFIT is an important thing to keep in mind here. What did you expect?

Second, if you're serious, never think "I'm not getting paid anyway". If you care about your work, you do the best you can whether or not you're getting paid.

Third, you call this a "shitty client". If you're going to succeed in this business, redefine that to "normal client." You have to go through a lot of "shitty - oops NORMAL clients" at the start of your business to acquire a stable of great clients.

Fourth, when you get a REALLY horrible client (this isn't one), you merely raise your rates. You get much better clients when you charge a lot - they're the clients who are serious about the work.

Fifth, clients who don't know what they want are much better than clients who have definite ideas but don't have a clue what it takes for you to achieve that. In the beginning, you basically want a portfolio of different designs, and let the client tell you what they like and what they don't like about each design. It DOES get easier as you go along.

Edit: forgot to add most important thing, ALWAYS know who the one person is that will approve/disapprove/pay for your job. You can't please a lot of different people - but you can please one, so make sure it's the right one.
Click to expand...

I didn't call them a shitty client, just to be clear 🙂 And thank you for your thoughts, it actually is much appreciated.
 
Originally posted by: swbsam
Originally posted by: xalos
I can see nefarious depending on how edgy it was. I'd have to see the design in question.

But, realistically with real clients you would ask what they wanted. Make a few mock ups in photoshop and get their approval and then create. Don't do any hard work until you have your retainer.
Click to expand...

Well, here are some that I have on me:

http://www.sundarama.com/mocksihi.jpg

Original site : http://www.ihi-therapycenter.org/

mockup of new site: http://sundarama.com/ihi7/Site_2/Welcome.html

They wanted "clean, younger, no-rainbows" at our first meeting, so we went that direction
Click to expand...

You think young and clean means having a huge hairy arm on the front page?
 
Originally posted by: swbsam
Originally posted by: xalos
I can see nefarious depending on how edgy it was. I'd have to see the design in question.

But, realistically with real clients you would ask what they wanted. Make a few mock ups in photoshop and get their approval and then create. Don't do any hard work until you have your retainer.
Click to expand...

Well, here are some that I have on me:

http://www.sundarama.com/mocksihi.jpg

Original site : http://www.ihi-therapycenter.org/

mockup of new site: http://sundarama.com/ihi7/Site_2/Welcome.html

They wanted "clean, younger, no-rainbows" at our first meeting, so we went that direction
Click to expand...

You need to get a better hand model - that is all. Other than that it's a nice improvement.
 
Originally posted by: krylon
Originally posted by: swbsam
Originally posted by: xalos
I can see nefarious depending on how edgy it was. I'd have to see the design in question.

But, realistically with real clients you would ask what they wanted. Make a few mock ups in photoshop and get their approval and then create. Don't do any hard work until you have your retainer.
Click to expand...

Well, here are some that I have on me:

http://www.sundarama.com/mocksihi.jpg

Original site : http://www.ihi-therapycenter.org/

mockup of new site: http://sundarama.com/ihi7/Site_2/Welcome.html

They wanted "clean, younger, no-rainbows" at our first meeting, so we went that direction
Click to expand...

You think young and clean means having a huge hairy arm on the front page?
Click to expand...

That was FPO, I asked them to supply photos and they never did. Our other option was/is to use stock photos but we prefer to use "real" photos
 
Originally posted by: krylon
Originally posted by: swbsam
Originally posted by: xalos
I can see nefarious depending on how edgy it was. I'd have to see the design in question.

But, realistically with real clients you would ask what they wanted. Make a few mock ups in photoshop and get their approval and then create. Don't do any hard work until you have your retainer.
Click to expand...

Well, here are some that I have on me:

http://www.sundarama.com/mocksihi.jpg

Original site : http://www.ihi-therapycenter.org/

mockup of new site: http://sundarama.com/ihi7/Site_2/Welcome.html

They wanted "clean, younger, no-rainbows" at our first meeting, so we went that direction
Click to expand...

You think young and clean means having a huge hairy arm on the front page?
Click to expand...

LOL, you beat me to it. Not only is it a hairy arm, the fingers are twisted and shit. Get someone with a normal looking hand.

 
Originally posted by: swbsam
Originally posted by: xalos
I can see nefarious depending on how edgy it was. I'd have to see the design in question.

But, realistically with real clients you would ask what they wanted. Make a few mock ups in photoshop and get their approval and then create. Don't do any hard work until you have your retainer.
Click to expand...

Well, here are some that I have on me:

http://www.sundarama.com/mocksihi.jpg

Original site : http://www.ihi-therapycenter.org/

mockup of new site: http://sundarama.com/ihi7/Site_2/Welcome.html

They wanted "clean, younger, no-rainbows" at our first meeting, so we went that direction
Click to expand...

I don't see nefarious but I do see shocking. But, I think I attribute that picture being similar to John Coplans' photography. Haha.. That's what you should have done. Put this pic as the main picture (Picture linked might be NSFW depending on where you work)

That can be your avante garde!
 
Originally posted by: Drako
Originally posted by: krylon
Originally posted by: swbsam
Originally posted by: xalos
I can see nefarious depending on how edgy it was. I'd have to see the design in question.

But, realistically with real clients you would ask what they wanted. Make a few mock ups in photoshop and get their approval and then create. Don't do any hard work until you have your retainer.
Click to expand...

Well, here are some that I have on me:

http://www.sundarama.com/mocksihi.jpg

Original site : http://www.ihi-therapycenter.org/

mockup of new site: http://sundarama.com/ihi7/Site_2/Welcome.html

They wanted "clean, younger, no-rainbows" at our first meeting, so we went that direction
Click to expand...

You think young and clean means having a huge hairy arm on the front page?
Click to expand...

LOL, you beat me to it. Not only is it a hairy arm, the fingers are twisted and shit. Get someone with a normal looking hand.
Click to expand...

Ha, besides it being a stock image only for placement, I liked the arm - it felt real and offered a nice contrast to the plain white. But i hear what you're saying, and honestly hate relying on stock photos. I want a soft box, stat!
 
Originally posted by: xalos
Originally posted by: swbsam
Originally posted by: xalos
I can see nefarious depending on how edgy it was. I'd have to see the design in question.

But, realistically with real clients you would ask what they wanted. Make a few mock ups in photoshop and get their approval and then create. Don't do any hard work until you have your retainer.
Click to expand...

Well, here are some that I have on me:

http://www.sundarama.com/mocksihi.jpg

Original site : http://www.ihi-therapycenter.org/

mockup of new site: http://sundarama.com/ihi7/Site_2/Welcome.html

They wanted "clean, younger, no-rainbows" at our first meeting, so we went that direction
Click to expand...

I don't see nefarious but I do see shocking. But, I think I attribute that picture being similar to John Coplans' photography. Haha.. That's what you should have done. Put this pic as the main picture (Picture linked might be NSFW depending on where you work)

That can be your avante garde!
Click to expand...

I personally love dark/edgy photography and wil google John Coplan as soon as I get home - thanks 🙂

but, yes, point taken - use safer, cleaner images for placement, not hairy male arms..
 
Originally posted by: princess ida
Edit: forgot to add most important thing, ALWAYS know who the one person is that will approve/disapprove/pay for your job. You can't please a lot of different people - but you can please one, so make sure it's the right one.
Click to expand...

That's a key point for any work, including in-house work for your own company.

If you put 10 people together you'll get 10 different opinions. If you're lucky you might reach a consensus through discussion but there's usually someone who gets more than one vote and they had better be part of that consensus.
 
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